Are you catholic?

[GodsGrace]

I suppose it is ok than for a church to get away with stealing than??

Good point.
Which brings up the question: Is insistence on tithing really stealing?

 

[mjrhealth]

Good point.
Which brings up the question: Is insistence on tithing really stealing?

When a church "demands" you give, it is stealing from God, people are supposed to give from there hearts not from under pressure to do so, for when a person gives for any other reason they may as well not given at all, for no one benefits.

 

[GodsGrace]

When a church "demands" you give, it is stealing from God, people are supposed to give from there hearts not from under pressure to do so, for when a person gives for any other reason they may as well not given at all, for no one benefits.

I agree.
Also, I find it important to know what the church does with my money.
Haven't given much lately. I've stopped going to church for a while. I do this every now and then.

 

[Marymog]

You obviously lived a sheltered life

I stole as a child. Just like you.

I at times did not show honor to my mother (especially in my teenage years). Just like you.

What does your story OR the subject of this thread (are you Catholic) have to do with leading a sheltered life?

What does it have to do with you reflecting now, as an adult, and appreciating what your mother was trying to teach you? Instead of suggesting you would punch someone because of sins you committed?

I’m confused.

 

[GodsGrace]

I stole as a child. Just like you.

I at times did not show honor to my mother (especially in my teenage years). Just like you.

What does your story OR the subject of this thread (are you Catholic) have to do with leading a sheltered life?

What does it have to do with you reflecting now, as an adult, and appreciating what your mother was trying to teach you? Instead of suggesting you would punch someone because of sins you committed?

I’m confused.

My goodness Marymog...
Get beyond that last sentence in the OP.
It's a euphamism for saying that he probably would have had a nice argument with the church if he were older and believed as he believes now.

I don't believe any posters here go around punching people.

 

[Stranger]

Stranger,
you might have missed some points.
The parents did not KNOW the OP was taking the dime.
...something I could understand a child doing if not properly raised or if feeling deprived. Were you perfect at the age of nine? Your point of the
OP doing wrong as a child is moot because when the parents found out, he was reprimanded.

Being a pharisee means to teach the laws of God but not the love of God, which is what the Pharisees did. Children must be taught with both strength and love. Seems like the OP got a lot of one and none of the other; although it's not up to me or us to say since only he knows.

I reread the opening post. I change nothing I have said. I understood what he was saying. My point of Rollo doing wrong as a child is not moot because he is the one that has indicated he shouldn't be disciplined for it. His mother was doing her job. The Church did its job. And he got caught stealing as a result. Instead of owning up to his wrong he finds excuses against the Church. Or excuses against his father. There is always an excuse.

When a child is being disciplined they don't see the love. All they see is 'ow that hurts'. Disciplining a child is loving a child though they don't know it at the time. They don't have to. They don't need it explained to them for it to work. So I am not worried about these empty claims of me being a pharisee.

Stranger

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I reread the opening post. I change nothing I have said. I understood what he was saying. My point of Rollo doing wrong as a child is not moot because he is the one that has indicated he shouldn't be disciplined for it. His mother was doing her job. The Church did its job. And he got caught stealing as a result. Instead of owning up to his wrong he finds excuses against the Church. Or excuses against his father. There is always an excuse.

When a child is being disciplined they don't see the love. All they see is 'ow that hurts'. Disciplining a child is loving a child though they don't know it at the time. They don't have to. They don't need it explained to them for it to work. So I am not worried about these empty claims of me being a pharisee.

Stranger

Oh, you're a pharisee, no doubt about it.

 

[GodsGrace]

I reread the opening post. I change nothing I have said. I understood what he was saying. My point of Rollo doing wrong as a child is not moot because he is the one that has indicated he shouldn't be disciplined for it. His mother was doing her job. The Church did its job. And he got caught stealing as a result. Instead of owning up to his wrong he finds excuses against the Church. Or excuses against his father. There is always an excuse.

When a child is being disciplined they don't see the love. All they see is 'ow that hurts'. Disciplining a child is loving a child though they don't know it at the time. They don't have to. They don't need it explained to them for it to work. So I am not worried about these empty claims of me being a pharisee.

Stranger

Children know when they're being disciplined with love.

 

[Stranger]

Children know when they're being disciplined with love.

If they are being disciplined, they are being loved. They don't need it told or explained to them.

Stranger

 

[Helen]

If they are being disciplined, they are being loved. They don't need it told or explained to them.

Stranger

Well I sure wish I had known that as a child, with my parents and at school.
My school teachers looked very read in the face and angry when they whacked me!! One took me by the scruff of the neck...marched me right up to the roof pointed t the flag Pole and told me she would hang me on it.
I didn't " feel the love" I felt her hand!!

It is only in adult hood that we look back and see how they were all trying to correct our behaviour. I cannot remember ONE ever sitting down and mentioning it was because of love for me. "Love" never came out of the mouth of my parents....'stiff upper lip' British and only just emerging from the shadow of the Victorian era as it were. Love was not something that was expressed out loud!!

 

[GodsGrace]

If they are being disciplined, they are being loved. They don't need it told or explained to them.

Stranger

This is not true.
Some children are not disciplined with love and the discipline does more damage than good.
And some are damaged forever.

 

[Stranger]

Well I sure wish I had known that as a child, with my parents and at school.
My school teachers looked very read in the face and angry when they whacked me!! One took me by the scruff of the neck...marched me right up to the roof pointed t the flag Pole and told me she would hang me on it.
I didn't " feel the love" I felt her hand!!

It is only in adult hood that we look back and see how they were all trying to correct our behaviour. I cannot remember ONE ever sitting down and mentioning it was because of love for me. "Love" never came out of the mouth of my parents....'stiff upper lip' British and only just emerging from the shadow of the Victorian era as it were. Love was not something that was expressed out loud!!

Of course they did, because they were angry. That doesn't mean they didn't love you. It doesn't need to be explained.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

This is not true.
Some children are not disciplined with love and the discipline does more damage than good.
And some are damaged forever.

I don't believe that. Understand, I am not talking about abuse, so don't push this into that realm. If a child does wrong and the parent disciplines the child for doing wrong, he doesn't have to tell the child he loves him. He just needs to discipline them. I will go farther yet. If a parent does not love the child, and the child does wrong, and the parent disciplines the child, it is still good as the child needs the discipline.

The child just needs to know they did wrong and got a whupping for it.

Stranger

 

[Helen]

Of course they did, because they were angry. That doesn't mean they didn't love you. It doesn't need to be explained.

Stranger

Oh come on...you can't be serious.

Why stop at age nine..let us take it younger..hey lets say it is 18 months or age two...screaming and hitting the toddler, and it "should know" that it is loved. Or lets take it down to six months...why the difference..a child's understanding is not developed until 12 , even biblically..
..and LOVE need not be expressed ?? Really?

Is that how you raised your kids? Really?
You expected them to 'just know' that they were loved, by osmosis ?

 

[Helen]

I don't believe that. Understand, I am not talking about abuse, so don't push this into that realm. If a child does wrong and the parent disciplines the child for doing wrong, he doesn't have to tell the child he loves him. He just needs to discipline them. I will go farther yet. If a parent does not love the child, and the child does wrong, and the parent disciplines the child, it is still good as the child needs the discipline.

The child just needs to know they did wrong and got a whupping for it.

Stranger

So you really are saying that all is needed is discipline for the child whatever age, and it doesn't need to be told it is loved. WOW!!

And how has that worked for you between you and God...?
You have NEVER ever needed for God to tell you or show you that He loves you?
So...lets play this out...Did you never see the love of God for you..and it break you, and then caused to you come to Him ?

If your weren't saved through His love..what did bring you to the Lord?

Just saying....
Bless you....H

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

If they are being disciplined, they are being loved. They don't need it told or explained to them.

Stranger

You are bizarre
You think I recognized love from my father when he gave me a back hander
I bet sissy boys like you don't know what that is

 

[Truth]

And you have just evaded your responsibility to humankind

It seems clear, that everyone here is giving mom a high five, But was she really trying to teach. Why did she not at least go and participate, and when the plate was passed, she could have added the instruction, of why we should give to the ministry, teaching come from example, as well as verbal instruction. I to was an abused child, Faith was completely void, none, nada, in our home! so do not be to harsh, there are thousands of children without true instruction in this world today! Our example is more effective than expressing Verses from the Scripture's.

 

[Stranger]

Oh come on...you can't be serious.

Why stop at age nine..let us take it younger..hey lets say it is 18 months or age two...screaming and hitting the toddler, and it "should know" that it is loved. Or lets take it down to six months...why the difference..a child's understanding is not developed until 12 , even biblically..
..and LOVE need not be expressed ?? Really?

Is that how you raised your kids? Really?
You expected them to 'just know' that they were loved, by osmosis ?

Discipline is an act of love itself. I am not saying you don't tell someone you love them. I am saying you don't need to tell them that when you discipline them.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

So you really are saying that all is needed is discipline for the child whatever age, and it doesn't need to be told it is loved. WOW!!

And how has that worked for you between you and God...?
You have NEVER ever needed for God to tell you or show you that He loves you?
So...lets play this out...Did you never see the love of God for you..and it break you, and then caused to you come to Him ?

If your weren't saved through His love..what did bring you to the Lord?

Just saying....
Bless you....H

When we are disciplined by God, God doesn't need to tell us He loves us. You already know God loves you,....correct? Being saved and being disciplined are not the same thing. I am not saying love is not there. I am saying it doesn't have to be told during the act of discipline.

Stranger

 

[Taken]

I reread the opening post. I change nothing I have said. I understood what he was saying. My point of Rollo doing wrong as a child is not moot because he is the one that has indicated he shouldn't be disciplined for it. His mother was doing her job. The Church did its job. And he got caught stealing as a result. Instead of owning up to his wrong he finds excuses against the Church. Or excuses against his father. There is always an excuse.

When a child is being disciplined they don't see the love. All they see is 'ow that hurts'. Disciplining a child is loving a child though they don't know it at the time. They don't have to. They don't need it explained to them for it to work. So I am not worried about these empty claims of me being a pharisee.

Stranger

Point was; ONLY considering the child's act, is sort of one-sided.

Everything has a learning curve.
Children are to obey their parents, agree.
We simply as parents TELL kids, do this, don't do that....ie "the rules".
When they begin to "rebel" is a CUE, they are ready for more information, beyond the "rules"; meaning explanations to foster their understanding of the "rules".

Rollo admitted he rebelled, as a kid, by his own understanding of a kid. But what was void, was ANYONE ... parents, church, friend saying, they is WHY the rule exists and WHY we want to teach you to follow this rule.

He rebelled as the understanding of a kid; and then what he had revealed to him was not only were there "rules", but the church was keeping tabs on him and tattling to his parents. And still noone talking to him making any explanations About the rules.

Take ANY adult, who is subject to rules/laws, and there are thousands of rules in the house, in public, at work sights, and the umpteen thousands of laws....at any given time an authority can jerk them aside and punish them for non-compliance....NOT a surprise, less they didn't understand the rule/law.

Just saying, we always give consideration to the circumstances of the party involved.
A kid, a mentally impaired adult, an elderly dementia person, etc.

God Bless,
Taken