Are You Free From The Law?

[mjrhealth]

means that we can go and rape a child when we want to because we have the freedom

If you choose to rape a child than you are not a christian and certainly not walking in love. You sound very much like a SDA they use the same reasoning. Love is not good enough so well choose the law.

 

[RogerDC]

If you choose to live by the law, than you choose to be condemned by them, you live by them you break one you are condemned, it is grace or law, which is it, you need to choose.

Puzzled, the devils not puzzled, hes keeping you in bondage.

As a believer, are you free to sin as you like?

 

[mjrhealth]

As a believer, are you free to sin as you like?

No but im free to be human. Are you human.

 

[Paul Christensen]

If you choose to live by the law, than you choose to be condemned by them, you live by them you break one you are condemned, it is grace or law, which is it, you need to choose.

Puzzled, the devils not puzzled, hes keeping you in bondage.

This if we are depending on our observance of the Law to be justified before God - making observance of the Law prerequisite for our salvation. I am not saying this at all. If we are depending on the Law for salvation, we have to keep it absolutely perfectly from our youth up, which is an impossibility for all of us. We have never kept the Law because before conversion we were slaves to sin. We were bondage to the works of the flesh. We had no choice but to do them and therefore were dead in our sins and could look forward only to condemnation at the judgment.

But the Law has a totally different purpose for converted believers. We love God's moral law and choose to follow it because the freedom to do so gives us love, joy and peace because we are in tune with the Holy Spirit and have close fellowship with the Father and Jesus Christ.

 

[RogerDC]

No but im free to be human. Are you human.

Why can't you sin as you like?

 

[RogerDC]

No but im free to be human. Are you human.

In that case, if you can't sin as you like, you are under law and you are saved by faith and works.

 

[Paul Christensen]

If you choose to rape a child than you are not a christian and certainly not walking in love. You sound very much like a SDA they use the same reasoning. Love is not good enough so well choose the law.

But the law of love IS God's moral law. The Jews were in bondage to the Mosaic Law because they were forced to follow it for fear of punishment or death. They were not following the Law with their hearts, but through fear of punishment. They were not given the choice to follow the Mosaic Law. David, had faith in the Messiah to come, and so his heart was right with God so he had no fear of the Law. He loved it and embraced it. He was never afraid of punishment because he chose to follow it with all his heart, except for a couple of slip-ups, and when he realised that he had struck out, he was horrified and repented immediately.

But we as believers have spirits made alive to God and transformed hearts, and so we love the Law from our hearts, and are not forced to follow it through fear of punishment. Paul said this in Romans 7. He had said that the Law was holy and it was man's sinfulness that made it fail for getting right with God. But after his conversion, he delighted in law with his inner man (his heart), and hated not being able to follow it perfectly because of his mortal body.

Am I making sense to you? We have God's moral law written on the fleshly tables of our hearts, and because we have a new spirit, we have an attitude of total love for God and for others, and so we will follow the law of love from our hearts, and because we have freedom in Christ, we freely choose to love God and love others.

Those who are in bondage to the Law, are not doing it out of love, but by compulsion, fuelled by fear of punishment, and not the holy fear of God that we have as genuine believers. SDAs follow the law through fear of being rejected by God, and so they follow it by compulsion and not through freedom of choice.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Why can't you sin as you like?

I will answer that question.
I don't go around raping children, watching child porn, fornicating with prostitutes, and such like, because I have the freedom in Christ not to do those things, but to follow God's moral law from my heart. My heart is not in the works of the flesh, but in the desire to walk in the Spirit.

 

[mjrhealth]

Why can't you sin as you like?

Because" Love" what do you not understand...

 

[mjrhealth]

In that case, if you can't sin as you like, you are under law and you are saved by faith and works.

I under no law, just "Love" il repeat, what is it you do not understand.

 

[mjrhealth]

But the law of love IS God's moral law. The Jews were in bondage to the Mosaic Law because they were forced to follow it for fear of punishment or death. They were not following the Law with their hearts, but through fear of punishment. They were not given the choice to follow the Mosaic Law. David, had faith in the Messiah to come, and so his heart was right with God so he had no fear of the Law. He loved it and embraced it. He was never afraid of punishment because he chose to follow it with all his heart, except for a couple of slip-ups, and when he realised that he had struck out, he was horrified and repented immediately.

But we as believers have spirits made alive to God and transformed hearts, and so we love the Law from our hearts, and are not forced to follow it through fear of punishment. Paul said this in Romans 7. He had said that the Law was holy and it was man's sinfulness that made it fail for getting right with God. But after his conversion, he delighted in law with his inner man (his heart), and hated not being able to follow it perfectly because of his mortal body.

Am I making sense to you? We have God's moral law written on the fleshly tables of our hearts, and because we have a new spirit, we have an attitude of total love for God and for others, and so we will follow the law of love from our hearts, and because we have freedom in Christ, we freely choose to love God and love others.

Those who are in bondage to the Law, are not doing it out of love, but by compulsion, fuelled by fear of punishment, and not the holy fear of God that we have as genuine believers. SDAs follow the law through fear of being rejected by God, and so they follow it by compulsion and not through freedom of choice.

No it is not, Love is not a law, if love was a law, than love wouldnt be love, do you too have a problem with Love.??

 

[Paul Christensen]

I under no law, just "Love" il repeat, what is it you do not understand.

No it is not, Love is not a law, if love was a law, than love wouldnt be love, do you too have a problem with Love.??

I really think that we are looking at the same thing from two different directions.
If you love playing or watching football, would you love it the same if there were no rules? Or would you be frustrated because of the total chaos that would result in playing the game with no rules at all?

Or do you think that you are driving with the principle of love, if you drive anywhere on the road, not pay attention to stop lights, and drive recklessly without any regard to the rules, or any other motorists on the road that you might kill or maim in the process? Is that love...really?

Doesn't walking in love has its own set of principles? And what are principles? Aren't they rules that set boundaries between what is love and what is not?

Is honouring and worshiping God above all others love?
Is keeping from idols love?
Is telling the truth love?
Is being content with what you have and covet what others have, love?
Is keeping from adultery, love?
Is keeping the Sabbath day love?
Is refraining from murder love?
Is honouring your parents love?
Is honouring God's name and not using it as a swear word love?

Do you get it?

 

[mjrhealth]

I really think that we are looking at the same thing from two different directions.
If you love playing or watching football, would you love it the same if there were no rules? Or would you be frustrated because of the total chaos that would result in playing the game with no rules at all?

Or do you think that you are driving with the principle of love, if you drive anywhere on the road, not pay attention to stop lights, and drive recklessly without any regard to the rules, or any other motorists on the road that you might kill or maim in the process? Is that love...really?

Doesn't walking in love has its own set of principles? And what are principles? Aren't they rules that set boundaries between what is love and what is not?

Is honouring and worshiping God above all others love?
Is keeping from idols love?
Is telling the truth love?
Is being content with what you have and covet what others have, love?
Is keeping from adultery, love?
Is keeping the Sabbath day love?
Is refraining from murder love?
Is honouring your parents love?
Is honouring God's name and not using it as a swear word love?

Do you get it?

No we are not, when you set yourself out top "not " do something it becomes a law, and is all about you, in Christ we are supposed to give all things to Him so He gets the glory, Self loves to steal His glory, Self needs a pat on the back for doing the right thing. When you are working at perfecting yourself, He sits back because HE cannot do anything. If you have to behave yourself, to ener in, than HE died for nothing because according to you, His works where not finished and you are having to finish them

 

[Paul Christensen]

No we are not, when you set yourself out top "not " do something it becomes a law, and is all about you, in Christ we are supposed to give all things to Him so He gets the glory, Self loves to steal His glory, Self needs a pat on the back for doing the right thing. When you are working at perfecting yourself, He sits back because HE cannot do anything. If you have to behave yourself, to ener in, than HE died for nothing because according to you, His works where not finished and you are having to finish them

Okay I have tried to get you to see where I am coming from, and I don't believe that you are holding to antinomianism (do what you like because you are going to be saved anyway).

I have tried to show you that the law of Love is exactly the same as the Ten Commandments.

So if you are not bound by that law then you are free to do the following:
Dishonour God as much as you like.
Pray to statues of Christ and Mary, or even Egyptian cats.
Blaspheme as much as you like.
Steal anything or download paid music free from the internet.
Tell as many lies as you like.
Hate people without a cause.
Look at any woman with lust (adultery at heart).
Fornicate as much as you like.
Dishonour your parents.

Because you are not under any law, you can do all those things with free abandon and yet be acquitted in the judgment. You may not be saying these things in so many words, but that is what you are actually teaching others, and those who believe you will go and do those things, end up coming second best in the judgment and God may require their blood at your hands.

So, if you are not bound by any law, then eat, drink and be merry, but don't grizzle when others may see your conduct and accuse you of hypocrisy.

Am I shocking you? Is what I am saying the truth about someone who is not bound by any law?

Or do you have a set of personal morals which you believe is appropriate for Christian living without hypocrisy.

I am not judging you, but interpreting what you are saying about what appears to be what you believe is not being bound by the law - Mosaic, civil, or God's moral law.

So I am challenging you to define clearly how you usually conduct yourself as someone not being under the law. And just saying "love" doesn't say anything at all. I want you to define it in practical terms that make it quite clear what you mean.

I can say I am loving a prostitute while having nooky with her, but is that morally right?

 

[mjrhealth]

So if you are not bound by that law then you are free to do the following:
Dishonour God as much as you like.
Pray to statues of Christ and Mary, or even Egyptian cats.
Blaspheme as much as you like.
Steal anything or download paid music free from the internet.
Tell as many lies as you like.
Hate people without a cause.
Look at any woman with lust (adultery at heart).
Fornicate as much as you like.
Dishonour your parents.

See now you throw out love to justify the law, Love doesnt do those things what is it about Love you have such a problem with, Keep the law if you must, see what happens what the end wont help you one bit.

 

[Paul Christensen]

See now you throw out love to justify the law, Love doesnt do those things what is it about Love you have such a problem with, Keep the law if you must, see what happens what the end wont help you one bit.

You are avoiding a direct answer to my question - define what specific behaviours are the demonstration of love to God and to others. Okay, you have said that love doesn't do the things I listed, so what exactly does love do that demonstrates that it is love?

I do follow the law of love, and I know what love demonstrates in my conduct toward God and others. So this is not about me, but I am interested in you making clear what you believe are the behaviours that demonstrate love from your perspective.

You have already denied that you are not lawless as a work of the flesh, which it is, so you must have a set of behaviours that you believe are morally right to be defined as a person who is conducting yourself with love to God and to others.

So, what are they?

I wish I could put you in a chair, lower the light over you and say, "You vill answer ze questions!"

 

[mjrhealth]

You are avoiding a direct answer to my question - define what specific behaviours are the demonstration of love to God and to others. Okay, you have said that love doesn't do the things I listed, so what exactly does love do that demonstrates that it is love?

I do follow the law of love, and I know what love demonstrates in my conduct toward God and others. So this is not about me, but I am interested in you making clear what you believe are the behaviours that demonstrate love from your perspective.

You have already denied that you are not lawless as a work of the flesh, which it is, so you must have a set of behaviours that you believe are morally right to be defined as a person who is conducting yourself with love to God and to others.

So, what are they?

I wish I could put you in a chair, lower the light over you and say, "You vill answer ze questions!"

simple

Luk_6:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

Its that simple real, no laws. JEsus never took you from under teh law to give you more, it is finsihed.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

‘Relayed Ad-Hominem’, less common in Christian circles,
but recently become laudable 'christian' behaviour,
where covertly loving but clearly unloving
personal attack and insult (ad-hominem) are intended,
by spamming seemingly impeccable Christian posts (statements),
to distract and divert attention off the actual subject,
and derail the thread, and wreck its purpose,
and completely loose <the point>...
— not with <“That is heresy">,
but with ‘This, is Truth, so you, are a heretic’.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Stop talking ignorant nonsense. In order for the sacrament to be effective, one must have genuine remorse for having sinned and then one must vow to do one's best to not commit that sin again. God is not a fool - He forgives only if the confession is genuine, otherwise the sacrament is useless. This is what Catholics are taught.

lol

Talk about nonsense.

Your right though, God is not a fool. He also is not going to just forgive a sin because you did some sacrament.

Yeah I know. the Catholics were taught wrong. They basically replaced the sin offering's with the sacrament. Well news flash. The sin offerings never brought forgiveness of any sin either.. So you should reject the idea your sacrament can.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No penalty for sin?
In that case, why does Paul warn believers in Gal 5 that their sins can land them in hell?

or maybe you could interpret that passage correctly and stop listening to men tell you what it says.

Remember what Paul told the Corinthian church who had a history of doing those sins paul mentioned in Gal 5.

1 Cor 6: 11: And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

He did not tell them they stopped those sins, And because of that, they were no longer those people. In fact we know from his letter that many of them STILL did those sins, they had not yet stopped.

He told them they were no longer aligned with those people. because they were WASHED, SANCTIFIED and JUSTIFIED, By the Spirit of God, the same he told Titus about how we were not saved because of our righteous deeds, but by Gods mercy, through the washing of regeneration of the HS.

Your to focused on sin,, you need to focus more on Christ. You want to defeat sin, that's how you do it. The Corinthian church finally gained victory, because they learned to seek after God. not look to self. And because Gods fulfilled his promise in them, By beginning the good work at salvation, and completed that work in them (phil 1: 6)