Are You Free From The Law?

[Eternally Grateful]

I think we are talking past each other and dealing with two separate issues. I don't depend on the Law to be saved, but by the grace of God through my faith in the finished work of Christ. Therefore, I no longer have the Law as an anvil on a rotten rope hanging over my head. I think that is what you are talking about.

But as converted believers, we no longer see the Law as limiting us because we, as David says, love God's Law and find it gives us freedom to choose to live by it, because we know that without holiness noone can see the Lord. We know that lawlessness is a work of the flesh, and so we are not a slave any longer to the words of the flesh, as we were before we were converted to Christ.

The problem with saying that the Law takes our freedom away, means that we can go and rape a child when we want to because we have the freedom to do it without penalty because we have faith in Christ. Or we have the freedom to shack up with a girlfriend and fornicate, and that the Law against fornication would take away our freedom to do it.

So, I am puzzled by what you are saying that God's moral law is taking away your freedom. Are you really saying that you are free to do anything you like, including viewing child porn, going up to people and punching them in the face, beating up the members of your family, defacing buildings with graffiti, and not be subject to a penalty?

Or are you like me - quite free to drive my car anywhere I choose without any fear that something black and white on four wheels with a big red eye is not going to wail its siren behind me, because I know I am subject to the laws of the road, have a driver's licence, and my rego and warrant of fitness is up to date?

I disagree here bro

Saying the law takes our freedom away does not mean we can go and rape a child. In fact the law does not tell us how to stop from rapin ga child. It just tells us if we do, we are condemned. Just like if we break any command. Thats why it is powerless to make any person righteous.

We need to do what Jesus himself said, and learn to follow the law of Love, Which is greater than the law of Moses. In fact, the law of Moses is found in the law of Love.

The law of Moses keeps us focused inward. That's what paul said, the law came and sin increased, It did the opposite of what we think should have happened.

The law of Love (love the Lord your god with all your heart mind and soul, and love your neighbor as yourself, your neighbor being anyone you come in contact with, including your enemy) is how believers overcome the power of sin. As we learn to look outward, As Jesus did when he walked the earth. The more we look to love as God loved us, the less we think of self. and the less be do things would would be considered breaking Gods commands.

The law cannot tell us how to be righteous because that was not its purpose. Jesus proved this when he said the law says this, But I tell you that. The fact is, I can never physically rape anyone, yet still be guilty of breaking that command.

 

[Paul Christensen]

I disagree here bro

Saying the law takes our freedom away does not mean we can go and rape a child. In fact the law does not tell us how to stop from rapin ga child. It just tells us if we do, we are condemned. Just like if we break any command. Thats why it is powerless to make any person righteous.

We need to do what Jesus himself said, and learn to follow the law of Love, Which is greater than the law of Moses. In fact, the law of Moses is found in the law of Love.

The law of Moses keeps us focused inward. That's what paul said, the law came and sin increased, It did the opposite of what we think should have happened.

The law of Love (love the Lord your god with all your heart mind and soul, and love your neighbor as yourself, your neighbor being anyone you come in contact with, including your enemy) is how believers overcome the power of sin. As we learn to look outward, As Jesus did when he walked the earth. The more we look to love as God loved us, the less we think of self. and the less be do things would would be considered breaking Gods commands.

The law cannot tell us how to be righteous because that was not its purpose. Jesus proved this when he said the law says this, But I tell you that. The fact is, I can never physically rape anyone, yet still be guilty of breaking that command.

I have been in discussion with another friend who says that he is under no law at all, and doesn't seem to understand that the law of love is basically the Ten Commandments. I saw the boundaries set by God's moral law as a security for us, and not a bondage at all.

When we were unconverted, we were slaves to sin, we had no choice but to do the works of the flesh. We could not follow the Ten Commandments even if we wanted to, because we were slaves to the law of sin and of death.

But after conversion we were set from from the law of sin and death, and have the choice to forsake the works of the flesh and to follow God's moral law. Before we hated the limitation of God's law because it threatened death and produced terror of God and of the judgment to come, because we knew in our conscience that we were breaking God's moral law but had no freedom to do otherwise.

But now we are subject to the law of the Spirit and of live, and this sets us free to choose to follow God's moral law, which, because of our enlivened spirit and transformed heart, we love and want to follow with all our heart. We have a new sense of joy and peace because we know Jesus has taken the penalty of our sinfulness away from us. We now hate the works of the flesh and do all we can to forsake them, and we love holiness, which is following God's moral law, which is the law of love.

 

[RogerDC]

I under no law, just "Love" il repeat, what is it you do not understand.

You're being evasive. You say you can't do what you like - if you can't do what you like, it necessarily follows that you are under law. That is simple and inescapable logic. You can't have it both ways - if you can do what you like, you are not under law; if you cannot do what you like, you are under law.

 

[RogerDC]

I will answer that question.
I don't go around raping children, watching child porn, fornicating with prostitutes, and such like, because I have the freedom in Christ not to do those things, but to follow God's moral law from my heart. My heart is not in the works of the flesh, but in the desire to walk in the Spirit.

That's not the point. The point is, every believer is tempted to sin - can a believer give into temptation and sin without penalty? In other words, can a believer disobey the commandments of God and expect no punishment with regards salvation? I'm thinking of a verse like Gal 5, in which Paul warns believers that their sins can land them in Hell.

 

[RogerDC]

Because" Love" what do you not understand...

That's a non-answer So I'll try again:. You say you can't sin as you like - why not?

 

[Paul Christensen]

That's not the point. The point is, every believer is tempted to sin - can a believer give into temptation and sin without penalty? In other words, can a believer disobey the commandments of God and expect no punishment with regards salvation? I'm thinking of a verse like Gal 5, in which Paul warns believers that their sins can land them in Hell.

I don't subscribe to any religion that controls people through fear. I believe that genuinely converted Christians hate sin and love holiness, and will do everything they can to forsake the works of the flesh and to embrace God's moral law and will seek to follow it with all their hearts.

Those who are slaves to the law through fear of punishment, are not genuinely converted to Christ, and are still in bondage to the law of sin and death.

 

[RogerDC]

No it is not, Love is not a law, if love was a law, than love wouldnt be love, do you too have a problem with Love.??

What happens if you don't "love"? If you rape or steal or murder, are there any consequences, or can you still be saved if you do such things?

 

[RogerDC]

No it is not, Love is not a law, if love was a law, than love wouldnt be love, do you too have a problem with Love.??

Scripture seems to contradict you:

"8 Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." (Romans 8).

Jesus said the whole law is based on loving God and loving neighbour.

 

[RogerDC]

If you choose to rape a child than you are not a christian and certainly not walking in love. You sound very much like a SDA they use the same reasoning. Love is not good enough so well choose the law.

If a believer rapes a child, will he still be saved?

 

[RogerDC]

simple

Luk_6:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

Its that simple real, no laws. JEsus never took you from under teh law to give you more, it is finsihed.

Explain why Paul warn believers in Gal 5 that their sins can land them in Hell.

What does Paul devote all Romans 6 to telling believers to turn away from sin and then tell them that "the wages of sin is death"?

Jesus condemns to hell the believers in Matt 7:21-23, due to their sins, telling them, "I never knew you" . Please explain.

 

[RogerDC]

I don't subscribe to any religion that controls people through fear. I believe that genuinely converted Christians hate sin and love holiness, and will do everything they can to forsake the works of the flesh and to embrace God's moral law and will seek to follow it with all their hearts.

Those who are slaves to the law through fear of punishment, are not genuinely converted to Christ, and are still in bondage to the law of sin and death.

You still haven't explained why Paul warns believers in Gal 5 that their sins can land them in Hell.

 

[Paul Christensen]

You still haven't explained why Paul warns believers in Gal 5 that their sins can land them in Hell.

Because it is true. Remember that Paul wrote Galatians to show them that the false apostles that came to them and told them they must be circumcised and live by the Mosaic Law in order to be saved, were preaching a false gospel and that no matter how hard the Galatians tried, they could never keep the Law to perfection and therefore if they tried to live by the Law in order to be saved, God will reject them and they will certainly end up in hell.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

A man filled with hate... The law cannot condemn a man who is not under it. But you chose the law over Christ to condemn you, for you with the law there is no grace. You need to dink some milk to kurb that temper.

But here you have YOU, judging, judging, condemning. LOVEABLE YOU NAMELESS FACELESS YOU, HEAR! "Many in that day shall say to Me (Jesus Christ) ... we are not under the Law because we chose you, we chose you, Christ, over the Law FOR US WITHOUT THE LAW THERE IS GRACE COMPELLING... [All very true!] And the Lord shall say to them ...."
But I won't say it because I am not Christ or judge or God that man like myself might arrogate like were I GOD.

I am what I am by the grace of God, am I a man filled with hate for the bigot and ruled by that temper that would kill the sheep skinned wolf if he could!
Take this for my Confession of Faith, For God loves me : A SINNER; He hates ME IF I AM NOT A SINNER. I am in Christ under the Law for He was under the Law - I UNWILLINGLY BUT HE WILLINGLY HIS WHOLE LIFE LONG, AND BEYOND, ROSE FROM THE DEAD UNDER THE LAW FOR THE DEAD UNDER THE LAW AND FOR NONE ELSE.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

 

[Paul Christensen]

Calm down man! Self isolation is getting to you.

 

[mjrhealth]

I am in Christ under the Law for He was under the Law

No, you are in Christ under grace, or you are not in Christ. He suffered death by the law so you wouldnt have to bear the shame, Love is what He gave us yet Love seems incomprehensible to most christians, death by the law is the choice they make and put His works to shame.

God bless

 

[mjrhealth]

If a believer rapes a child, will he still be saved?

If a "believer" raped a child I seriously doubt he was a believer, yet who knows the Love of God, but you seriously doubt His Love and grace, don you.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Will anyone have the guts to address the PRACTICAL, ACTUAL, POINT AT ISSUE HE, HAS, with reading and understanding Galatians? WHAT IS IT IN THE THE LETTER THAT AFFECTS THE LIFE OF THE BELIEVER so that believers (Christians) are marshalled the one (believer) AGAINST the other (believer) [ostensibly in the Letter to the Galatians]?

I have followed this 'DEBATE' (more like chemical warfare) going on all the time and to this day am waiting for someone to say what it is all ABOUT IN ONE'S DAY TO DAY LIFE?!

 

[mjrhealth]

What happens if you don't "love"? If you rape or steal or murder, are there any consequences, or can you still be saved if you do such things?

Man you are raving on now, dont you know?? Havnt your Priests told you, the church will save you will it not.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

No, you are in Christ under grace, or you are not in Christ. He suffered death by the law so you wouldnt have to bear the shame, Love is what He gave us yet Love seems incomprehensible to most christians, death by the law is the choice they make and put His works to shame.

This <choice> of course is the one first heard in the garden-of-(self)-pleasing (choice) way back dished up as a beautiful forbidden fruit to Eve. You still think you can fool <you> with it?

One is not <under grace>. One is "saved BY grace" from "under the Law", "IN Christ". One stands in Christ, IN grace. One does not get into that position by oneself. God lifts one by the hair upon the Rock that is too high for him to get up to. THAT, IS GRACE; one stands, ON grace.
While I cannot properly comprehend what grace is, I stop rather before I make conclusions on <Love>