Are You Free From The Law?

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Joseph77 said: ↑
I do not think you can answer it.

This is a post some where . I laid out my testimony, go read it, and I have met Christ, could never have done that if I didnt believe. Could I.

but for you might be

Mat_16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Two major Trolls at loggerheads. That's funny or is it?

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

So what your are saying is you have nothing to say. Is that all you have to say.

Mat 15:17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
Mat 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
Mat 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

Irrelevancy is one of the big balls of fire Trolls shoot with from their paper ships of war.

 

[mjrhealth]

Irrelevancy is one of the big balls of fire Trolls shoot with from their paper ships of war.

Nothing to say?? Leave you to your troubles.

 

[RogerDC]

Why do you believe that Jesus died on the cross?

Jesus died on the Cross to atone for the sins of every sinner who has lived or ever will live, in order that every sinner might not suffer consequence of sin - which is eternal death - but that they might have eternal life. Jesus suffering and death unconditionally redeemed all mankind - as soon as a human is conceived in its mother womb, it has been redeemed by the Cross. But although all mankind is redeemed by Christ, not all mankind will be saved, because - unlike our redemption - our salvation is conditional. Those conditions are having faith in Christ and obeying His commandments (Rev 12:17, James 2:24). The Redemption achieved by the Cross is like Christ opening the door of salvation to everyone - but it’s then up to us to choose to walk through that door by abiding in Christ (faith and works). Not everyone choses to abide in Christ and walk through that door (for those who have never the gospel, salvation is a different matter).

The redemption/atonement achieved by Christ on the Cross doesn’t mean believers can sin with impunity - far from it - Paul warns sinners that their sins can land them in Hell (Gal 5).

And, what is repentance and the forsaking of the works of the flesh?

Repentance is changing your life to conform to the will of God and demonstrating your love for God, by obeying His commandments. There are two stages of repentance - the first is an inner change that comes as a result of the grace that comes by accepting the gift of faith in Christ; the second stage is acting on that grace by obeying God commandments, which may involve ceasing to commit sins that the believer habitually committed before he came to faith. If the believer continues to sin (after becoming aware of sin), there is no repentance … which is a problem, because repentance is necessary for salvation (John 3:36, Heb 12:14, Romans 1:17).

By repenting and obeying God’s commandments, we demonstrate our love for God (John 14:15) and “conquer” our sins, thus make ourselves “worthy” of salvation (Rev 3:4-5).

Forsaking “the works of the flesh” is simply turning your back on sin and striving to lead a holy and righteous life, which is achieved by obeying God's commandments.

 

[RogerDC]

or maybe you could interpret that passage correctly and stop listening to men tell you what it says.

Remember what Paul told the Corinthian church who had a history of doing those sins paul mentioned in Gal 5.

1 Cor 6: 11: And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

He did not tell them they stopped those sins, And because of that, they were no longer those people. In fact we know from his letter that many of them STILL did those sins, they had not yet stopped.

He told them they were no longer aligned with those people. because they were WASHED, SANCTIFIED and JUSTIFIED, By the Spirit of God,

Good grief. No wonder your theology is so flawed and messed up - you appear to lack the fundamental ability to comprehend the text. 1Cor 6:11 does NOT say the believers in question were STILL committing those sins - it actually says the OPPOSITE - “And such WERE some of you” - which means the believers STOPPED committing the sins Paul mentions in v. 9-10.

Furthermore, in verse 9, Paul says “the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God” and then describes various sins - meaning, those who practise such sins are “unrighteous” and will not be saved. Paul delivers the same message in Gal 5, where he warns believers that those who commit the sins he mentions “will not inherit the kingdom of God”.

the same he told Titus about how we were not saved because of our righteous deeds, but by Gods mercy, through the washing of regeneration of the HS.

Again, it appears you have a problem comprehending the text. You don’t understand when Paul is referring to the uselessness of works alone (eg, Titus 3:5) and when he’s referring to salvation through faith and works (eg, 1Cor 6:9-11, Gal 5).

 

[RogerDC]

God is not a fool. He also is not going to just forgive a sin because you did some sacrament.

Yeah I know. the Catholics were taught wrong. They basically replaced the sin offering's with the sacrament. Well news flash. The sin offerings never brought forgiveness of any sin either.. So you should reject the idea your sacrament can.

You’re partly correct, I guess … except the Catholic Sacrament of Penance doesn’t depend on the blood of animals, but on the blood of Jesus Christ. Through this Sacrament, Jesus forgives our sins through His representative, the priest (John 20:19-23).

 

[RogerDC]

Because it is true. Remember that Paul wrote Galatians to show them that the false apostles that came to them and told them they must be circumcised and live by the Mosaic Law in order to be saved, were preaching a false gospel and that no matter how hard the Galatians tried, they could never keep the Law to perfection and therefore if they tried to live by the Law in order to be saved, God will reject them and they will certainly end up in hell.

Sorry, but you’re barking up the wrong tree here. In the first part of Gal 5, Paul certainly is referring to the false teachers who were insisting on circumcision for the Galatian believers. Paul opposes this because he reasons that if you keep one aspect of Mosaic Law, you must keep it all (Gal 5:3). But in Gal 5:16-25, Paul is not referring to the law of Moses. He is referring to the “works of the flesh”, which includes every form of sin that comes as a result of Original Sin. Paul is telling believers that sin in general (not breaking the law of Moses) can land them in Hell.

 

[mjrhealth]

You’re partly correct, I guess … except the Catholic Sacrament of Penance doesn’t depend on the blood of animals, but on the blood of Jesus Christ. Through this Sacrament, Jesus forgives our sins through His representative, the priest (John 20:19-23).

Thats a lie, Jesus did it once and for ever. No priest can forgive any man of there sins, only God and Jesus can do that. A man can only forgive them that sinned against them. Moire catholic lies and deceit.

Heb_10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Heb 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

 

[RogerDC]

If a "believer" raped a child I seriously doubt he was a believer, yet who knows the Love of God

What planet are you on? There are probably hundreds of child rapists in jails right now who were professing Christians when they committed those crimes. There would be many thousands of believers who are presently in jail for committing all sorts of serious crimes. You seem to think faith turns believers into robots who have no free will and cant’ sin. Jimmy Swaggart committed adultery - are you telling me he wasn’t a believer when he did it? The Bakers embezzled millions of dollars from their followers - they were believers, were they not?

Judas was not only a believer, but an apostle, hand-picked by Jesus - yet he ended up in Hell - explain that.

Jesus tells believers that He “never knew” them and condemns them to Hell in Matt 7:21-23. Explain that.

but you seriously doubt His Love and grace, dont you.

Sounds like you misunderstand grace - it is not a license to sin or a license for lawlessness. You are in God’s grace only as long as you abide in Christ, which means obeying his commandments (aka “law”):
“If you keep my commandments you will abide in my love” (John 15:9);
“All who keep His commandments abide in Him, and He in them.” (1John 3:24);
”He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him.” (John 3:36).

 

[RogerDC]

Man you are raving on now, dont you know?? Havnt your Priests told you, the church will save you will it not.

More evasion. Are my questions too difficult for you to answer?

Okay, here are some different questions:
Is there a law that says believers cannot murder, rape and steal? If not, this means a believer is free to do these things, does it not?

 

[mjrhealth]

More evasion. Are my questions too difficult for you to answer?

Okay, here are some different questions:
Is there a law that says believers cannot murder, rape and steal? If not, this means a believer is free to do these things, does it not?

Yes it is called love, and love in itself it is no t a law it is by free will. Is Love really such a problem to you...

 

[RogerDC]

Jesus and Paul, Peter and James, John and Mark, all the Apostles , all Scripture, and God exposes and evades this one: (with its false posts/ teachings/ attitude) :

Clear as mud

 

[mjrhealth]

What planet are you on? There are probably hundreds of child rapists in jails right now who were professing Christians when they committed those crimes. There would be many thousands of believers who are presently in jail for committing all sorts of serious crimes. You seem to think faith turns believers into robots who have no free will and cant’ sin. Jimmy Swaggart committed adultery - are you telling me he wasn’t a believer when he did it? The Bakers embezzled millions of dollars from their followers - they were believers, were they not?

Judas was not only a believer, but an apostle, hand-picked by Jesus - yet he ended up in Hell - explain that.

Jesus tells believers that He “never knew” them and condemns them to Hell in Matt 7:21-23. Explain that.Sounds like you misunderstand grace - it is not a license to sin or a license for lawlessness. You are in God’s grace only as long as you abide in Christ, which means obeying his commandments (aka “law”):
“If you keep my commandments you will abide in my love” (John 15:9);
“All who keep His commandments abide in Him, and He in them.” (1John 3:24);
”He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him.” (John 3:36).

And there are a lot of religious people undermining God Christ and all there good works for the sake of there religions, and men stuck in bondage to there religions because there religions have made them slaves and kept them in bondage, to that you will stand and have to answer. as Jesus put it,

Mat 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Mat 23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
Mat 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Mat 23:16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!

 

[Paul Christensen]

Sorry, but you’re barking up the wrong tree here. In the first part of Gal 5, Paul certainly is referring to the false teachers who were insisting on circumcision for the Galatian believers. Paul opposes this because he reasons that if you keep one aspect of Mosaic Law, you must keep it all (Gal 5:3). But in Gal 5:16-25, Paul is not referring to the law of Moses. He is referring to the “works of the flesh”, which includes every form of sin that comes as a result of Original Sin. Paul is telling believers that sin in general (not breaking the law of Moses) can land them in Hell.

The truth is that we will not be judged on our good works at the Judgment. We will be judged according to our failure to keep the Ten Commandments, which are not the Mosaic Law but God's moral law written in His own handwriting on the tablets of stone. We can do all the good works in the world, but that will not erase the crime that we have committed against God by transgressing against His moral law.

It is the same if a rapist appears before a court judge and says, "I know I raped those women, but I give to the Red Cross and volunteer at the city soup kitchen." The judge will say, "You are not here because of your good deeds. You are here to be sentenced for your crimes, and you will have to go to prison."

God is the same. He is a God of justice, and because we have transgressed against His holy moral law, we will be found guilty, and be sentenced to hell in spite of any good works that we have done.

So, what can we do to be saved from that sentence of eternal hell? Depending on our good works to save us will be like jumping out of an airplane without a parachute, flapping our arms and hoping that will save us landing on our face on the ground at terminal velocity.

 

[RogerDC]

You could be as a little child, by faith , in Jesus,
and be believing He is Messiah,
and believe the penalty for sin is death,
and He bore the penalty for you , so you would not have to die for your sin.

Why does Paul warn BELIEVERS in Romans 6 that the wages of their sins is "death"?

Why does Paul warn BELIEVERS in Gal 5 that their sins can lead them to Hell?

 

[Paul Christensen]

And there are a lot of religious people undermining God Christ and all there good works for the sake of there religions, and men stuck in bondage to there religions because there religions have made them slaves and kept them in bondage, to that you will stand and have to answer. as Jesus put it,

Mat 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Mat 23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
Mat 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Mat 23:16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!

There is a simpler answer:
Would we jump out of an airplane without wearing a parachute and flapping our arms to save ourselves? That is what depending on our own good works is to try and stop us plunging down into the pit of hell.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Why does Paul warn BELIEVERS in Romans 6 that the wages of their sins is "death"?

Why does Paul warn BELIEVERS in Gal 5 that their sins can lead them to Hell?

Because that is what we all deserve, and will be found guilty in the judgment. It will be like being sentenced for a whole number of speeding offences and being sentenced to pay thousands of dollars in fines. We can't say that we have kept to the speeding limit at other times, because that will not get us off the times we were caught breaking the speed limit. So we will have to pay the fine - unless someone pays it for us.

 

[mjrhealth]

There is a simpler answer:
Would we jump out of an airplane without wearing a parachute and flapping our arms to save ourselves? That is what depending on our own good works is to try and stop us plunging down into the pit of hell.

No, thats what Christ did. We have no good works of our own, the good works that Christ did was the works of God, our works count for nought.
This bit

Joh_10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

and that is out witness too.

 

[Paul Christensen]

No, thats what Christ did. We have no good works of our own, the good works that Christ did was the works of God, our works count for nought.
This bit

Joh_10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

and that is our witness too.

I agree. The good works that we do as Christians are the good works that God has ordained for us to do. They are not the works that some believe are prerequisite for salvation.

 

[Brakelite]

I agree. The good works that we do as Christians are the good works that God has ordained for us to do. They are not the works that some believe are prerequisite for salvation.

I'm glad you liked Paul's post MJR. I did too. In fact, I would imagine there would be very few Christians who would suggest that their works are what saves them, oh, except maybe for Yeheren and his fellow Catholics although even they would be reluctant I imagine to claim their works alone are what saves them. Still working through that issue with Yeheren who seems to think that love is what saves us. Catholics go seem rather reticent in admitting that without the blood of the Lamb there can be no remission.

I'm the above post, Paul made a comment with which we all agree, quote,

works that God has ordained for us to do.

I have a question with regards that phrase... How do we know what works are ordained of God? And are we to exclude God's commandments? Wouldn't obedience to God's commandments be included in God ordained good works?