Are You Free From The Law?

[mjrhealth]

According to John 20:19-23, Jesus gave the power to those he “breathed” on (ie, the Catholic priesthood) to forgive the sins of “any” other member of the Church. This power comes from Christ, not the priest himself. The Church has the power to forgive sins (via her priests) because the Church is the “fullness” of Christ (Eph 1:22-23).John 20:19-23 doesn’t say anything about all believers being given that power, nor does it say that power applies only to a believer forgiving the sins of someone who sinned against him - these appear to be unscriptural things you made up. Impossible. You’re a slow learner - the Catholic Church is the “pillar and foundation of the truth” (1Tim 3:15), so if you disagree with her teachings, it is you who is wrong.

Oh my goodness, its own truth, just like the SDA... well Jesus does, as doesnt God and the Holy spirit, they cannot agree with you, because than they woudl all have to agree with teh devil.

you know this guy

Joh 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

 

[Paul Christensen]

He never implied anything youi did, that is what religion is all about , SELF look at me God look at what i DID

James does not speak of being justified by works in terms of salvation. His use of justification is by way of demonstration, in that what we do after conversion demonstrates whether we are truly saved or not. Also, these are not works from our own self-righteousness, but the works that God has ordained through the work of the indwelling Spirit, that we should do. These are works inspired of God for the converted believer to show that he or she is Jesus' workmanship through the working of the Holy Spirit within. One has to already be a converted Christian in order for these God-ordained works to be manifest.

James is not saying that faith in Christ is made possible through our works, but that our works demonstrate that we already have faith, and are the evidence that our faith is real.

 

[mjrhealth]

James does not speak of being justified by works in terms of salvation. His use of justification is by way of demonstration, in that what we do after conversion demonstrates whether we are truly saved or not. Also, these are not works from our own self-righteousness, but the works that God has ordained through the work of the indwelling Spirit, that we should do. These are works inspired of God for the converted believer to show that he or she is Jesus' workmanship through the working of the Holy Spirit within. One has to already be a converted Christian in order for these God-ordained works to be manifest.

James is not saying that faith in Christ is made possible through our works, but that our works demonstrate that we already have faith, and are the evidence that our faith is real.

Again, not our works, as Christ put it,

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

but when

Joh_10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

plenty of people in this world, different religions unbelievers do good works, it proves nothing., it is only when we do the works given to us, and I dont mean. "But the bibel says" I mean when HE says go do, to you, that is the works we should be doing because only those works glorify Him

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Jesus condemns certain believers to Hell for being “doers of lawlessness” (Matt 7:21-23). You are a believer who practices lawlessness, so does that mean Jesus will say to you on Judgement Day, “I never knew you” and toss you into the lake of fire?

If you practice lawlessness

your not a true believer

you have been shown how the apostle John made this case and closed it so many times, why do you continue to ignore it,

 

[FollowHim]

Romans 8:1-2 King James Version (KJV)

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.


Do you think you are free from the Law? How can you be free from the Law when you cannot stop Sinning?

The law only has power over sinners, lawbreakers. If we walk in the Spirit there is no condemnation now for us.
The law was to measure the line of success and failure, to help those who fail to repent, get right with God and walk on.

Jesus fulfilled the law and thereby changed it. The temple is no more, because we are now the temple of the Holy Spirit. The laws of civil government of Israel do not apply to the church, as it is a believing community not under the rule of a country, but walking in love and righteousness. Penal matters are for the local authorities to deal with, the church expels sinners who were saints from their midst if they do not repent when confronted.

We are now slaves to righteousness, to purity and doing good and not evil. It is our calling and the path we must follow.

There are people who claim to know Jesus, but all fail to walk the way of God, our true sinful state, and only faith in Jesus and His work means we will be saved or have eternal life now and reality in Him, and denying our sinfulness is a lie. Some will boast they sin, while believing they are forgiven as they sin, because the cross forgives sin, past, present and future.

In these believers foolishness, they do not know Jesus or His purity, or how sin kills us and those who touch it, so unless they find purification and the walk they are lost, eternally.

8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.
10 Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall,
2 Peter 1:8-10

Peter expected mature believers not "never fall".
It is their "past sins" that are cleansed not their "future sins" which currently do not exist.

To believe a future evil is forgiven now, as if you are doomed to commit it without choice or spiritual input, is fatalism and unbelief, a denial of what the cross is and the power of Jesus at work in our souls. Of course unbelievers will say this, because they do not have the living God working within them.

God bless you

 

[Elihoenai]

The law only has power over sinners, lawbreakers. If we walk in the Spirit there is no condemnation now for us.
The law was to measure the line of success and failure, to help those who fail to repent, get right with God and walk on.

Jesus fulfilled the law and thereby changed it. The temple is no more, because we are now the temple of the Holy Spirit. The laws of civil government of Israel do not apply to the church, as it is a believing community not under the rule of a country, but walking in love and righteousness. Penal matters are for the local authorities to deal with, the church expels sinners who were saints from their midst if they do not repent when confronted.

We are now slaves to righteousness, to purity and doing good and not evil. It is our calling and the path we must follow.

There are people who claim to know Jesus, but all fail to walk the way of God, our true sinful state, and only faith in Jesus and His work means we will be saved or have eternal life now and reality in Him, and denying our sinfulness is a lie. Some will boast they sin, while believing they are forgiven as they sin, because the cross forgives sin, past, present and future.

In these believers foolishness, they do not know Jesus or His purity, or how sin kills us and those who touch it, so unless they find purification and the walk they are lost, eternally.

8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.
10 Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall,
2 Peter 1:8-10

Peter expected mature believers not "never fall".
It is their "past sins" that are cleansed not their "future sins" which currently do not exist.

To believe a future evil is forgiven now, as if you are doomed to commit it without choice or spiritual input, is fatalism and unbelief, a denial of what the cross is and the power of Jesus at work in our souls. Of course unbelievers will say this, because they do not have the living God working within them.

God bless you

@FollowHim, Are you saying that you are Sinless?

 

[Joseph77]

@FollowHim, Are you saying that you are Sinless?

If the CREATOR (OF ALL LIFE, of ALL THE UNIVERSE)

says they are sinless, are they sinless ?

 

[Davy]

No doubt about, but in order to be an Israelite you must become a Judahite first. Judah means praise and we must learn
how to praise the Lord Jesus or the stones will surely cry out. Judah represents the continuation of the church after Jesus
came and died. When we believe in the Son of God, we become a spiritual Jew or Judahite.

Afraid not. Paul's idea was actually about God's concept of spiritual Israel in the Promise by Faith which was first given through Abraham (see Galatians 3). That Promise by Faith continued through Isaac, and then to Jacob. And when Jacob received the Blessing, and wrestled with the Angel, then God gave him the new name 'Israel' to represent that Blessing. That Promise was not to be privy only to Israelites, but would be for the Gentiles too!

Gal 3:8
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, "In thee shall all nations be blessed."
KJV

Thus what Apostle Paul shows at the end of Romans 2 about becoming a spiritual Jew (Judean) he actually defined in Romans 9 regarding the spiritual Israel concept, which is the concept I have been talking about, and it involves ALL peoples that believe the Promise by Faith first given through Abraham.

And furthermore, the name 'Israel' being the more correct term for what Paul was talking about, because the term 'Jew' only applies to a small portion of actual Israelites per history (i.e., the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, Levi, and some small remnants of the northern tribes that migrated to Jerusalem refusing Jeroboam's golden calf idol worship; the rest of today's Jews are foreigners that converted to Judaism).

 

[FollowHim]

@FollowHim, Are you saying that you are Sinless?

I am saying Jesus can make me walk like Him. Sinless is not the point where sinful actions could not happen, but God sees us as holy and pure.

For some perfection is the impossibility of a sinful action. Others hold we can never be holy or pure because our own physicality is sinful. Some suggest sexual desire is this failure.

I hold I can be pure and holy in Christ. As a man, in communion have real holiness. God bless you

This only is possible because Christ's blood washes us clean through repentance and faith.

 

[Elihoenai]

I am saying Jesus can make me walk like Him. Sinless is not the point where sinful actions could not happen, but God sees us as holy and pure.

For some perfection is the impossibility of a sinful action. Others hold we can never be holy or pure because our own physicality is sinful. Some suggest sexual desire is this failure.

I hold I can be pure and holy in Christ. As a man, in communion have real holiness. God bless you

This only is possible because Christ's blood washes us clean through repentance and faith.

Romans 8:7 King James Version (KJV)

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.


Agreed that True Disciples of Yeshua/Jesus walk like him. The Power of True Discipleship is such that Sin and any inclination to Sin is totally destroyed. The Carnal Mind is not subject to the Law of Elohim/God. Every tittle of the Laws that Elohim/God gave to Israel through Moses must be accomplished.

The Flesh is a Stumbling Block that prevents real transformation:

If you can bear to have Sex, it must be between mature married Man and Woman and for procreation only.

Stop Having Recreational Sex!

 

[RogerDC]

Why does Jesus tell certain believers in Matt 7:21-23, "I never knew you" and condemn them to Hell for their "lawlessness"?

People who are trying to earn their salvation by their works. Notice how the people pleaded. They pleaded and use their works they did in Jesus’ name as their argument

That’s because Jesus is judging them, and we will all (believers included) be judged by our works:
“For we must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ, so that each one may receive good or evil, according to what he has done in the body” (2Cor 5:10).

Jesus judged the seven Churches in Rev 2 and 3 according to their faith and their works - just as all believers will be judged according to their faith and works on the Last Day.

they died in unbelief

Jesus doesn’t condemn the people in Matt 7:21-23 for their “unbelief” - he condemns them for being “doers of lawlessness” - ie, he condemns them for their evil works, not their lack of faith.
They were obviously believers, because they called Jesus, “Lord”; and they prophesied, cast out demons and performed in Jesus’ name. (As demonstrated in Acts 19:13-16, unbelievers cannot cast out demons in the name of Jesus.)

 

[RogerDC]

so according to the religious we are all doomed and Christ died for nothing... woe is mankind, the religious have condemned us all to death.. faith in Christ and His works to be discarded, and we must all be perfect little children... woe is us.

This is an excellent example of what’s known as a “strawman” argument. No one here is arguing that a believer needs to be “perfect” to be saved. 1Peter 1 says all believers sin, but that if we “confess” our sins, we will be forgiven and cleansed of all unrighteousness. Heb 12:14 says, “Strive for … the holiness without which no one will see the Lord” (Heb 12:14). “Strive” doesn’t mean “be perfect” - it means “do you imperfect best”.

But you’re not honest; you don’t care what Scripture says, do you? You want to be “free”, using a distorted idea of “love” as an excuse to be a “doer of lawlessness” (Matt 7:23).

 

[RogerDC]

You are being true to your theology that we will be judged on the balance between good and bad deeds and if the balance tips over to good deeds, God will forgive your bad deeds and let you into heaven.

What does this mean? …
“For we must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ, so that each one may receive good or evil, according to what he has done in the body” ( 2Cor 5:10)

 

[RogerDC]

Yep. That's the point. We sin and will be found guilty in the Judgment. Letting people off crimes against God because of some good deeds goes against natural justice, and makes God unjust.

I don’t recall saying God will let anyone off from their offences against Him. That’s YOUR theology - you claim that no matter what sins a believer commits, he will not be punished for them - he gets off scot-free.

Are you going to share heaven with Adolf Hitler who slaughtered 20 million people, because he got the trains to run on time, built some wonderful buildings and designed great motorways in Germany, and show great kindness to children and animals?

I don’t know, but perhaps not. Only an idiot would consider that to be justice.

 

[RogerDC]

According to your theology, if his good deeds, like being a great father, gave to the Red Cross, ran an animal rescue shelter, he will get off because his good deeds will outweigh his adultery, after all, he never raped the women, and in each case it took two to tango and both got move and pleasure out of their encounters.

The result of Christ’s final judgement on any individual is not part of “my theology” - it’s none of my business. But I do know this:

“For we must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ, so that each one may receive good or evil, according to what he has done in the body” ( 2Cor 5:10),

which implies we will not be judged on faith alone and that believers sins will not be ignored, but judged - just as a believer’s good works will not be ignored, but judged and taken into account.

 

[RogerDC]

The blood of Christ paid the debt, God did not let the debt go unpaid.

If Jesus paid the debt for all the sins you will ever commit, why will you receive “good or evil” according to your deeds - which includes your sins - after being judged on the Last Day?

“For we must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ, so that each one may receive good or evil, according to what he has done in the body” ( 2Cor 5:10)

 

[RogerDC]

Every priest, bishop, cardinal, right up to the pope himself, have broken God's moral law and will be found guilty for their own sin at the judgment, so I can't see how people who are sinners themselves can forgive the sins of other sinners. God doesn't give power or gifts to dirty vessels.

Says you. God gives gifts and miraculous powers to whomsoever He wishes, and in the OT and NT there are many accounts of God doing just that.
The apostles were sinners and “dirty vessels” too, yet God performed mighty miracles through them. A human raising another human from the dead is a mighty miracle (Acts 9:36-43) …. and so is a human forgiving the sins of another human (“’For which is easier, to say ‘Your sins are forgiven’, or to say, ‘Rise and walk’?’” (Matt 9:5)).

Jesus clearly gives certain disciples the power to forgive sins, but you deny what the Scripture says:
"Jesus said to them again, ‘Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’ And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, 'Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained'" (John 20:21-23).

 

[RogerDC]

But your theology says that we are justified by our works, which essentially is compliance with God's moral law.
Paul clearly says that if we seek to be justified by our works, grace is no more grace, and Christ is of no effect for us.

My theology is the same as that of James: “a man is justified by works and not by faith alone” - or as Paul describes it, “He who through faith is righteous shall live” (Romans 1:17). In other words, James and Paul preach salvation through faith and works.
(What is meant by “works” is obeying the commandments of God, also known as “holiness” and “righteousness”).

Paul clearly says that if we seek to be justified by our works, grace is no more grace, and Christ is of no effect for us.

Paul preaches that works done without faith are useless for salvation - he does not preach that works done by a BELIEVER destroy grace. That would be ridiculous and unscriptural.

If Paul preaches that a believer’s good works destroy grace and that a believer’s goods works don’t justify, he completely contradicted himself by writing,
“Strive for … the holiness without which no one will see the Lord” (Heb 12:14)!!

Holiness = keeping “His commandments” = good works, which justify, because without them, “no one will see the Lord”.

Grace and goods works, in fact, go hand-in-hand and compliment each other - the believer cooperates with grace to produce goods works (ie, holiness) and goods works in turn generate even more grace.

Read about Tabitha, who was a disciple (who died and was raised to life again by Peter): She is described as being “full of goods works and acts of charity” (Acts 9:36). So the word of God obviously values the “good works and acts of charity” of a disciple (believer) very highly - and so should you.

 

[RogerDC]

how are the publicans and prostitutes beating us in, iyo? ty

Sorry, I don't understand your question

 

[mjrhealth]

This is an excellent example of what’s known as a “strawman” argument. No one here is arguing that a believer needs to be “perfect” to be saved. 1Peter 1 says all believers sin, but that if we “confess” our sins, we will be forgiven and cleansed of all unrighteousness. Heb 12:14 says, “Strive for … the holiness without which no one will see the Lord” (Heb 12:14). “Strive” doesn’t mean “be perfect” - it means “do you imperfect best”.

But you’re not honest; you don’t care what Scripture says, do you? You want to be “free”, using a distorted idea of “love” as an excuse to be a “doer of lawlessness” (Matt 7:23).

We do that once, you know this part,

Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

you know

it is finished,

Straw men arguments are for men who are too smart and have no come back,

ye priest keep the congregation in sin so the can keep them selves in a job and make a mockery of Christ and al lHis good works.

Religon never changes