Are you predestined or did you make a choice?

[MatthewG]

Did God choose you over all else to be saved?


Or did you simply make a choice?


If you suggest God did it, you had no effort in doing anything, and God plucked you out of 8billion people and sometimes the rest of the saying goes everyone else is predestined to hell. (I totally disagree with this stance - but if you agree with it I will still love you.)


If you made a choice- I would agree with you… because Adam and Eve were not forced to do anything, they were given the ability to procreate and Adam to tend the garden…


Satan made a choice to no longer really have anything to do with God and he was arbiter of death.


I’m no one special, just a man, fallible just as much as the next man or woman… be honest in evaluation and evaluating yourself, and if you do have faith, have your faith before your God.


To love God first and to love others.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Because I have chosen to receive God's free gift of salvation by faith, God chose me and I am now predestined to be conformed to the image of God's Son.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Did God choose you over all else to be saved?

He did, but he did that on the basis of my faith.

 

[Brakelite]

I chose to accept His invitation, but didn't do so without His insistent, convincing, loving, persistent, faithful, endearing, loving, gracious, merciful, did I say loving? personal, overwhelmingly persuasive ear whispering to the point I could barely refuse.

 

[DuckieLady]

Did God choose you over all else to be saved?


Or did you simply make a choice?


If you suggest God did it, you had no effort in doing anything, and God plucked you out of 8billion people and sometimes the rest of the saying goes everyone else is predestined to hell. (I totally disagree with this stance - but if you agree with it I will still love you.)


If you made a choice- I would agree with you… because Adam and Eve were not forced to do anything, they were given the ability to procreate and Adam to tend the garden…


Satan made a choice to no longer really have anything to do with God and he was arbiter of death.


I’m no one special, just a man, fallible just as much as the next man or woman… be honest in evaluation and evaluating yourself, and if you do have faith, have your faith before your God.


To love God first and to love others.

What if it's sort of just a thing of God is merciful and blesses those who seek Him?

Luke 15:1-7 is pretty clear, the shepherd will leave the 99 to tend to the one who was lost.

That is my experience, not that I never knew Him, but that he brought me back to Him.

I think that says more about God's grace, His compassion and understanding of our mistakes, and the truth in his Word, rather than anything else.

I am willing to bet for a lot of people's testimony of salvation, it probably came down to God is searching for those who were searching for Him.

..Even if they felt abandoned at some point, it's on His timing when he makes himself known to that person.

He knows more than we do. He will do whatever He wants and He does not change outside of His Word.

 

[Brakelite]

What if it's sort of just a thing of God is merciful and blesses those who seek Him?

Luke 15:1-7 is pretty clear, the shepherd will leave the 99 to tend to the one who was lost.

That is my experience, but I think that says more about God's grace, His compassion and understanding of our mistakes, and the truth in his Word, rather than anything else.

I am willing to bet for a lot of people's testimony of salvation, it probably came down to God is searching for those who were searching for Him.

..Even if they felt abandoned at some point, it's on His timing when he makes himself known to that person.

He knows more than we do.

I'm sure you are correct that this was the case for many, but for me I wasn't searching for Him at all. I was utterly lost but wasn't aware of it, until He came and told me I was and that He was the only way home. I was lonely, alone, but had everything I thought I needed... Except Him.

 

[DuckieLady]

I'm sure you are correct that this was the case for many, but for me I wasn't searching for Him at all. I was utterly lost but wasn't aware of it, until He came and told me I was and that He was the only way home. I was lonely, alone, but had everything I thought I needed... Except Him.

Beautiful testimony and proves His Word true, once again.

He's a compassionate and good Father.

 

[MatthewG]

Anyone else desire to share your thoughts, testimony, or if you wanna rattle off in a debate it is up to you.

How powerful this gift God has given us all, choice.

Thank you to each member who has responded so far.

 

[MatthewG]

Imagine If you didn’t have a choice,

you couldn’t think your own thoughts,
You couldn’t choose what you really wanted to drink,
You couldn’t choose to go see the River when you got a chance
You couldn’t choose to enjoy a walk down a old dirt road


I enjoy walking out in the sun it is a good habitat, and love to eat fruits… if I didn’t have a choice… how terrible would that be, say I only could eat dirt because there was no choice I could make.

 

[MatthewG]

Any other people have the same thoughts?

Thank you for all of your comment and replies.

Just curious to know the response to the question.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

what you’re really saying is YOU saved yourself and that God couldnt do it by His grace.

I availed myself of God's grace to get saved. If you think that's a damnable works gospel show me the verse that says believing in the blood for the forgiveness of sin is a work of the damnable works gospel.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You didnt make a choice, you couldnt have. Paul said that no one seeks God on their own. You have to be called by God first.

Our choice is in response to God's invitation sent via the Holy Spirit. And, yes, people do seek God on their own. That's what fake believers do.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Regeneration before faith.

Conviction before believing. The Spirit convicts a person of their sin and separation from God and God's remedy for it. The person either believes and receives it, or rejects it by their own choice. If they believe and receive it they receive the Holy Spirit into themselves and are regenerated.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

God chose who would goto Heaven even before the beginning of the universe.

God knew who he would choose.

 

[ChristisGod]

Did God choose you over all else to be saved?


Or did you simply make a choice?


If you suggest God did it, you had no effort in doing anything, and God plucked you out of 8billion people and sometimes the rest of the saying goes everyone else is predestined to hell. (I totally disagree with this stance - but if you agree with it I will still love you.)


If you made a choice- I would agree with you… because Adam and Eve were not forced to do anything, they were given the ability to procreate and Adam to tend the garden…


Satan made a choice to no longer really have anything to do with God and he was arbiter of death.


I’m no one special, just a man, fallible just as much as the next man or woman… be honest in evaluation and evaluating yourself, and if you do have faith, have your faith before your God.


To love God first and to love others.

You don’t believe what God said in Romans 8 and Ephesians 1 ?


For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

Ephesians 1
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,

 

[bbyrd009]

Any other people have the same thoughts?

Thank you for all of your comment and replies.

Just curious to know the response to the question.

there’s a good passage for that, What did you go out into the wilderness to see? that i think we mostly misinterpret at first, being as how we mostly approach God to get what is called “saved” now, right? Which definition has surely been badly corrupted.

But imo originally the choice was more one of “do i take advantage of others to feather my own nest in this life, or refuse to do that and suffer more?”

anyway, correctly identifying “wilderness” and the other elements in the passage clarifies a lot, imo.

 

[Scott Downey]

I'm sure you are correct that this was the case for many, but for me I wasn't searching for Him at all. I was utterly lost but wasn't aware of it, until He came and told me I was and that He was the only way home. I was lonely, alone, but had everything I thought I needed... Except Him.

Fits in with Romans and Paul quoting from Isaiah about the saved this, note verse 20

Romans 10
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

18 But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed:

“Their sound has gone out to all the earth,
And their words to the ends of the world.”

19 But I say, did Israel not know? First Moses says:

“I will provoke you to jealousy by those who are not a nation,
I will move you to anger by a foolish nation.”

20 But Isaiah is very bold and says:

“I was found by those who did not seek Me;
I was made manifest to those who did not ask for Me.”

21 But to Israel he says:

“All day long I have stretched out My hands
To a disobedient and contrary people.”

 

[Scott Downey]

About who chooses who, God from rhe beginning of time chose us, and we then received Him.

2 Thessalonians 2
13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.

16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace, 17 comfort your hearts and establish you in every good word and work.

John 1:11-13
New King James Version
11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

The reason we received Him and believed Him is we were granted to know the Truth by God, to come to Christ. God accomplished that work in us by first making us born again, so then we can receive, believe and be saved.

Otherwise, the enmity in our hearts against Christ will not be overcome.
Jesus says the flesh profits nothing, you cannot come to Christ in the weakness of your flesh (includes the mind), but only by the Spirit can you come to Christ, as God makes you regenerated by the Spirit, then you can have Christ (life)

John 6
63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.

65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

 

[PinSeeker]

Hi, Matthew (and all),

There is absolutely nothing in Scripture that says or insinuates that we do not make choices, or that we do not make a choice regarding salvation. But there is a problem saying that our choice precipitates our election to salvation. So how do you make sense of the following Scriptures, especially the bolded parts?

"I will take you from the nations and gather you from all the countries and bring you into your own land. I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules." (Ezekiel 36:24-27)

"At that time the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the colonnade of Solomon. So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, 'How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.' Jesus answered them, 'I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.'" (John 10:22-30)

"Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For He says to Moses, 'I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.' So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, 'For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show My power in you, and that My name might be proclaimed in all the earth.' So then He has mercy on whomever He wills, and He hardens whomever He wills." (Romans 9:14-18)

"But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ ~ by grace you have been saved ~ and raised us up with Him and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages He might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." (Ephesians 2:4-10)

Grace and peace to all.

 

[MatthewG]

One day I was confronted with a reality.

To believe and have faith.

Or not.

Some however may use scriptures which no one has seemed to use Romans chapter 9 yet.

However The Saints in Rome are being Addressed by Paul… right?

Or was Paul addressing people in America who were predestined?

I personally do not believe I am one of those 144,000 of the twelve tribes because that needs to be part of the matter as well if one would like to be intellectually honest, right?

Any more thoughts on the matter?