quietthinker
Well-Known Member
God authors life not death. Jesus is evidence of this.
Assisted dying
- Thread starter Rita
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Bob
Well-Known Member
Compassion, by all means. But when socialized medicine bureaucrats encourage euthanasia out of concern for government costs, that seems far from compassion.
In contrast, here is the Wesleyan Covenant Prayer:
“I am no longer my own, but thine.
Put me to what thou wilt, rank me with whom thou wilt.
Put me to doing, put me to suffering.
Let me be employed by thee or laid aside for thee,
exalted for thee or brought low for thee.
Let me be full, let me be empty.
Let me have all things, let me have nothing.
I freely and heartily yield all things
to thy pleasure and disposal.
And now, O glorious and blessed God,
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit,
thou art mine, and I am thine. So be it.
And the covenant which I have made on earth,
let it be ratified in heaven. Amen.”
In contrast, here is the Wesleyan Covenant Prayer:
“I am no longer my own, but thine.
Put me to what thou wilt, rank me with whom thou wilt.
Put me to doing, put me to suffering.
Let me be employed by thee or laid aside for thee,
exalted for thee or brought low for thee.
Let me be full, let me be empty.
Let me have all things, let me have nothing.
I freely and heartily yield all things
to thy pleasure and disposal.
And now, O glorious and blessed God,
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit,
thou art mine, and I am thine. So be it.
And the covenant which I have made on earth,
let it be ratified in heaven. Amen.”
Triumph1300
Well-Known Member
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
Then why did God say this? God means business when His people disobey Him. In this day if a child of God misbehaves, God will make Him sick, for the Child of His to return to Him. That's happened to me. I got the point. If you keep it up, God will take you out of this world. Read a story about Sam Kinston. Just google him. Its interesting. You will remember him.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
God heals the sick, he doesn't make them sick. Any sickness attributed to God is mans imposition.
Didn't you know there is a Devil who disguises himself as God? Didn't you know that the Devil shifts his responsibility onto God and persuades men to believe him?
Haven't you seen Jesus in action as he sojourned with men? His purpose was that we can by observation determine the character of God accurately.
The consequence of mans sin, ie death, is not the result of Gods doing.
When God told A&E 'if you eat of the tree you will surely die', it wasn't a threat like, 'if you eat of this tree I'm going to kill you'. No, it was a warning of what the natural consequence would be.
Marvelloustime
Well-Known Member
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
I know God had made me sick and I know why too. Just like he told the Israelites in Amos 4:6-12. All the calamities came on them, yet they did not return to the Lord.
A few NT examples, where sickness is a judgement of God, not the devil. Sure devil can make people sick too.
Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 11 - New King James Version
Worship and the Lord’s Supper - Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ. Head Coverings - Now I praise you, brethren, that you remember me in all things and keep the traditions just as I delivered them to you. But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is...
26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death till He comes.
Examine Yourself
27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and [f]blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks [g]in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the [h]Lord’s body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many [i]sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.33 Therefore, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another. 34 But if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home, lest you come together for judgment. And the rest I will set in order when I come.
Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 2:21-23 - New King James Version
And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am...
The Corrupt Church
18 “And to the [h]angel of the church in Thyatira write,‘These things says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass: 19 “I know your works, love, [i]service, faith, and your [j]patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first. 20 Nevertheless I have [k]a few things against you, because you allow [l]that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, [m]to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.
21 And I gave her time to [a]repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. 22 Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of [b]their deeds. 23 I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches[c] the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works.
Revelation 11:18
The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth.”
www.biblegateway.com
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still; and he that is filthy, let him be filthy still; and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still; and he that is holy, let him be holy still.”
12 “And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every man according as his work shall be.
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”
14 Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the Tree of Life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For outside are dogs and sorcerers, and whoremongers and murderers and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
16 “I, Jesus, have sent Mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the Bright and Morning Star.”
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come.” And let him that heareth say, “Come.” And let him that is athirst come; and whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely.
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book: If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the Book of Life and out of the Holy City, and from the things which are written in this book.
20 He that testifieth these things saith, “Surely I come quickly.” Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth.”
Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 22:11-13 - 21st Century King James Version
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still; and he that is filthy, let him be filthy still; and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still; and he that is holy, let him be holy still." "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every man according as his work shall...
12 “And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every man according as his work shall be.
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”
14 Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the Tree of Life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For outside are dogs and sorcerers, and whoremongers and murderers and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
16 “I, Jesus, have sent Mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the Bright and Morning Star.”
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come.” And let him that heareth say, “Come.” And let him that is athirst come; and whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely.
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book: If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the Book of Life and out of the Holy City, and from the things which are written in this book.
20 He that testifieth these things saith, “Surely I come quickly.” Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
Bible Gateway passage: Proverbs 30:5-7 - 21st Century King James Version
Every word of God is pure; He is a shield unto them that put their trust in Him. Add thou not unto His words, lest He reprove thee and thou be found a liar. Two things have I required of Thee; deny me them not before I die:
5 Every word of God is pure; He is a shield unto them that put their trust in Him.
6 Add thou not unto His words, lest He reprove thee and thou be found a liar.
Better to say nothing at all and keep your mouth shut than speak and shown to be a fool, as words you speak have eternal consequence.
Matthew 12:36
But I say unto you that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the Day of Judgment.
Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers,and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
Hebrews 12:5-11 -
5 and you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons,
“My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord,
Nor faint when you are reproved by Him;
6 For those whom the Lord loves He disciplines,
And He scourges every son whom He receives.”
7 It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8 But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. 9 Furthermore, we had earthly fathers to discipline us, and we respected them; shall we not much rather be subject to the Father of spirits, and live? 10 For they disciplined us for a short time as seemed best to them, but He disciplines us for our good, so that we may share His holiness. 11 All discipline for the moment seems not to be joyful, but sorrowful; yet to those who have been trained by it, afterwards it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness.
Palms 11965-71 -
You have dealt well with Your servant,
O Lord, according to Your word.
66 Teach me good discernment and knowledge,
For I believe in Your commandments.
67 Before I was afflicted I went astray,
But now I keep Your word.
68 You are good and do good;
Teach me Your statutes.
69 The arrogant have forged a lie against me;
With all my heart I will observe Your precepts.
70 Their heart is covered with fat,
But I delight in Your law.
71 It is good for me that I was afflicted,
That I may learn Your statutes.
Psalm 38:3 -
There is no soundness in my flesh because of Your indignation;
There is no health in my bones because of my sin.
Micah 6:13 -
“So also I will make you sick, striking you down,
Desolating you because of your sins.
5 and you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons,
“My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord,
Nor faint when you are reproved by Him;
6 For those whom the Lord loves He disciplines,
And He scourges every son whom He receives.”
7 It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8 But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. 9 Furthermore, we had earthly fathers to discipline us, and we respected them; shall we not much rather be subject to the Father of spirits, and live? 10 For they disciplined us for a short time as seemed best to them, but He disciplines us for our good, so that we may share His holiness. 11 All discipline for the moment seems not to be joyful, but sorrowful; yet to those who have been trained by it, afterwards it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness.
Palms 11965-71 -
You have dealt well with Your servant,
O Lord, according to Your word.
66 Teach me good discernment and knowledge,
For I believe in Your commandments.
67 Before I was afflicted I went astray,
But now I keep Your word.
68 You are good and do good;
Teach me Your statutes.
69 The arrogant have forged a lie against me;
With all my heart I will observe Your precepts.
70 Their heart is covered with fat,
But I delight in Your law.
71 It is good for me that I was afflicted,
That I may learn Your statutes.
Psalm 38:3 -
There is no soundness in my flesh because of Your indignation;
There is no health in my bones because of my sin.
Micah 6:13 -
“So also I will make you sick, striking you down,
Desolating you because of your sins.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
To the trenches one and all and line the walls . The hour is very late .A few NT examples, where sickness is a judgement of God, not the devil. Sure devil can make people sick too.
23 For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you: that the Lord Jesus on the same night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, [d]“Take, eat; this is My body which is [e]broken for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 11 - New King James Version
Worship and the Lord’s Supper - Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ. Head Coverings - Now I praise you, brethren, that you remember me in all things and keep the traditions just as I delivered them to you. But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is...
26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death till He comes.
Examine Yourself
27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and [f]blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks [g]in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the [h]Lord’s body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many [i]sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.
33 Therefore, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another. 34 But if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home, lest you come together for judgment. And the rest I will set in order when I come.
Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 2:21-23 - New King James Version
And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am...The Corrupt Church
18 “And to the [h]angel of the church in Thyatira write,
‘These things says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass: 19 “I know your works, love, [i]service, faith, and your [j]patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first. 20 Nevertheless I have [k]a few things against you, because you allow [l]that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, [m]to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.
21 And I gave her time to [a]repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. 22 Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of [b]their deeds. 23 I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches[c] the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works.
Triumph1300
Well-Known Member
Well I guess there must be a lot of sick people in the Middle East right now.
Not to mention the White House and the Kremlin.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
oh there are many that are sick indeed .
LOVE SICK for a harlots love .
I have done what i could for this people and by grace will continue to do so .
But if people will not abandon all hope in men
all hope in govts on either side
THEY ALL going down ON JESUS day . They love sick of a harlots love , a love that is of the world
and connects to ALL WHO ARE OF THE WORLD . athiest , false religoins
and sadly a whole heap of christendom too .
The love of the world H AS ALWAYS BEEN ENMITY WITH GOD .
I am only so horror strucken that even much of christendom now IS OF THE WORLD
and yet BELIEVES their love is OF GOD .
the false religoins were always of the world , as is an atheist
HECK as even i once was , as all are WHO know NOT CHRIST .
Tick tock , TIME IS RUNNING OUT . THE DELUSION TO UNITE THE DECIEVED to be as One man COMETH .
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Isn't it wonderful to evaluate people so accurately!
Marvelloustime
Well-Known Member
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Of a certainty, deception will include that which is outside the awareness of many......even that of popular theological opinions.....or could it be particularly that of popular theological opinions?
My guess is a narrow gate and a rocky lonely trail will not qualify as popular......even with those who are sure their associated organisations are on track.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
no its not wonderful nor does it bring any joy or comfort to my heart to do so .
BUT IT IS DIRE NECESSARY to warn against anyone or any doctrine that is false .
And sadly many are infected and love sick with the love of a harlot . And thus must be warned
in hopes that some will repent. its a lott world and sadly christendom we now live in my friend .
MEANING , i am often vexed in soul with the unrighteous deeds that many in churches now consider love and truth .
And yet is sins and rebellion to A HOLY GOD . We gotta do something .
We who know better must expose the false harlots and prophets and prophetesses and teachers claoked in wool .
But if that does seem a bit harsh to you then perhaps i will leave you with the very Words that GOD once told
a church .
But this I HAVE against you , you are ALLOWING a false prophetess to t each and seduce my people .
Guess they t hought like many do today and beleive TO NAME a false one is JUDGY and hateful .
Either way , GOD was not well pleased with that . In fact DOCTRINE does matter . Just a friendly reminder my friend .
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
Meaning Christians CAN actually stop sinning!
Unless of course they don't want to having a few pet sins they refuse to give up.
In that event all they gotta do is embrace the fake OSAS doctrines of the ear ticklers so they can feel good about themselves as they continue living in sin and try to keep themselves convinced that they will still go to Heaven
Behold
Well-Known Member
Reader,
Choosing to die, on purpose, is not an unknown situation in the bible. (Both Testaments).
Some have chosen to die on purpose....including Jesus, Paul, and Samson.
The fact is......if the Reader claims to be a Christian, and would rather "stay down here and enjoy more food and fun , .... then to go Up THERE to be with God and Christ",.... then the Reader has both feet in "the world" and needs to reverse their course.
I can tell you truthfully Reader, that if i died today, then im good.
Why?
Its because ive seen enough of what is down here. Im long saved since '1977, and before i was saved i found out all about this world., and ive found out more about it since my Salvation day back in '1977, , and nothing about this world is good......nothing.
And by "world" i mean "world system".
......= This World System is a flashing neon Sewer. Its a demonic "eye candy".... Its a FAKE... Its broken promises and innocence stolen.
I know what its all about down here, and Thank GOD that what He has for us up ahead, is nothing like what is found in this foul human PIT.
The DEVIL runs this world and its made for Devils.......but One is coming soon, who is going to make some changes and the devils in it who were "Left behind" to go through the Tribulation, will be the first to feel it.
Reader, being with God is our Real HOME ......Whereas this World-System-Sewer where we reside, called "the world system" is not our home.
And i have a good life down here, as do many of you......... but its JUNK compared to being with God and enjoying ALL that He has for us.
So, Dont let this world be your home (in your heart).......as its not, if you are truly born again.
If you are just religious but lost, and are happily water baptized and deceived then of course, you'll love it down here, as this is all you have.
Now, The specific question is...... should you be LEGALLY allowed to choose to no longer suffer a terminal illness, if that is your choice?
Well, God allows you to do what you want to do...... so, thats the answer, even if you choose the wrong path.
"well behold, what if i chose to end my suffering, ....... would i go to Hell"?
A.) Born Again = Christians can't go to Hell, as they are already a "citizen of Heaven"., and you are confused because you don't understand that your BODY is not the real you.
Listen, God didnt save your body, He saved your born again Spirit thats in it.
How do you know that God didnt save your body when you were saved?
A.) Its because your body is going to DIE, and if it was Saved, it wouldn't.
Here is a Revelation for some of you..... God gives you a NEW BODY because the old one is not the right body for a "new creation in Christ'.
Study that out, and may God give you the update, through His Word.
.........So, if you decided to stop your terminal body from suffering, that is currently dying.... then that has no effect on the REAL YOU that is born again inside it.
Now, should a terminal patient, who is suffering terribly, be forced to suffer more,?????? and that includes knowing that tomorrow is going to be as bad or worse........= when they could find their release by chosing to end their suffering by drinking say, a cupful of meds that ends their body?
The answer seems to be an easy "YES" regarding Legalizing a Terminal Patient's option to "opt out of more terminal illness related suffering"......right until the Patient's situation is not so specific and all the "exceptions pop up" that people who have not suffered very much yet, will try to use to prevent such a Law.
And just to help someone understand............then consider this.
If you ended up with stomach cancer, and you are in a Hospital in a bed for a month on the Oncology floor, and the pain meds no longer stop the pain, and your voice is raw and only a whisper now, because of all the scraming you've done since the pain meds stopped working....then it could be that before you found out what you now understand, you use to think that if someone wanted to stop HURTING, and chose to LEAVE IT.........then they are "just weak" people.
oh, no no no.......... not at all.
A.) Live and learn..
Choosing to die, on purpose, is not an unknown situation in the bible. (Both Testaments).
Some have chosen to die on purpose....including Jesus, Paul, and Samson.
The fact is......if the Reader claims to be a Christian, and would rather "stay down here and enjoy more food and fun , .... then to go Up THERE to be with God and Christ",.... then the Reader has both feet in "the world" and needs to reverse their course.
I can tell you truthfully Reader, that if i died today, then im good.
Why?
Its because ive seen enough of what is down here. Im long saved since '1977, and before i was saved i found out all about this world., and ive found out more about it since my Salvation day back in '1977, , and nothing about this world is good......nothing.
And by "world" i mean "world system".
......= This World System is a flashing neon Sewer. Its a demonic "eye candy".... Its a FAKE... Its broken promises and innocence stolen.
I know what its all about down here, and Thank GOD that what He has for us up ahead, is nothing like what is found in this foul human PIT.
The DEVIL runs this world and its made for Devils.......but One is coming soon, who is going to make some changes and the devils in it who were "Left behind" to go through the Tribulation, will be the first to feel it.
Reader, being with God is our Real HOME ......Whereas this World-System-Sewer where we reside, called "the world system" is not our home.
And i have a good life down here, as do many of you......... but its JUNK compared to being with God and enjoying ALL that He has for us.
So, Dont let this world be your home (in your heart).......as its not, if you are truly born again.
If you are just religious but lost, and are happily water baptized and deceived then of course, you'll love it down here, as this is all you have.
Now, The specific question is...... should you be LEGALLY allowed to choose to no longer suffer a terminal illness, if that is your choice?
Well, God allows you to do what you want to do...... so, thats the answer, even if you choose the wrong path.
"well behold, what if i chose to end my suffering, ....... would i go to Hell"?
A.) Born Again = Christians can't go to Hell, as they are already a "citizen of Heaven"., and you are confused because you don't understand that your BODY is not the real you.
Listen, God didnt save your body, He saved your born again Spirit thats in it.
How do you know that God didnt save your body when you were saved?
A.) Its because your body is going to DIE, and if it was Saved, it wouldn't.
Here is a Revelation for some of you..... God gives you a NEW BODY because the old one is not the right body for a "new creation in Christ'.
Study that out, and may God give you the update, through His Word.
.........So, if you decided to stop your terminal body from suffering, that is currently dying.... then that has no effect on the REAL YOU that is born again inside it.
Now, should a terminal patient, who is suffering terribly, be forced to suffer more,?????? and that includes knowing that tomorrow is going to be as bad or worse........= when they could find their release by chosing to end their suffering by drinking say, a cupful of meds that ends their body?
The answer seems to be an easy "YES" regarding Legalizing a Terminal Patient's option to "opt out of more terminal illness related suffering"......right until the Patient's situation is not so specific and all the "exceptions pop up" that people who have not suffered very much yet, will try to use to prevent such a Law.
And just to help someone understand............then consider this.
If you ended up with stomach cancer, and you are in a Hospital in a bed for a month on the Oncology floor, and the pain meds no longer stop the pain, and your voice is raw and only a whisper now, because of all the scraming you've done since the pain meds stopped working....then it could be that before you found out what you now understand, you use to think that if someone wanted to stop HURTING, and chose to LEAVE IT.........then they are "just weak" people.
oh, no no no.......... not at all.
A.) Live and learn..
Last edited:
