BAPTISM SAVES, FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS"

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justbyfaith

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It is my belief that John the Baptist himself understood his own ministry....and revealed it to others....who wrote about it and is available for other men to read.

Mark 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize youwith the Holy Ghost, and with fire:



Water baptism is a outward symbol of a mans inward acceptance of Death, Buriel and Ressurection by and of the Belief in God, the Power of God and Word of God.

Baptism of the Holy Spirit makes a man WHOLE and SAVES that WHOLE man, body, soul, spirit...to be forever with the Lord God.

If you feel the need to be Baptized with Water, go ahead. No one objects.
However you should know, the Church that performs such Water Baptism, is YOU agreeing WITH "THAT" Churches Doctrine, and further "MAKES" you a member of that Church and and IN AGREEMENT with ALL of IT'S Doctrine.

Glory to God,
Taken
Water Baptism in Jesus' name has the power to save a man as a confession of Jesus Christ before men (see Matthew 10:32, Luke 12:8); and is a more potent confession of Him because you are identifying with Him not only with your mouth but in identification with His death, burial, and resurrection. I have been baptized in water (I say this in your response to your statement that I can do it if I want to); and I feel that the fact that I have received Acts 2:38 baptism has resulted in a greater boldness in my faith.

Also, if being baptized in Jesus' name automatically brings me into agreement with the Oneness Pentecostals, then that seems to me to be a supernatural work of the Holy Spirit, since I did not continue with them to be indoctrinated by them after receiving baptism from them. How does one magically agree with the doctrine a church merely from being baptized by them? Of course, it does say that being baptized in a certain way will result in being filled with the Holy Ghost (Acts 2:38)...so maybe that is the reason.

Water baptism does not Save a man.

I think that 1 Peter 3:20-21 and Acts of the Apostles 22:16 teach to the contrary along with a plethora of other verses.

That a man can be saved apart from water baptism, I am not contending against. What I am saying is that water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins is a useful point of contact by which a person can obtain absolute assurance of salvation if all of the elements required are present. If anyone has assurance issues, receiving this sacrament according to Acts 2:38-39 can and will resolve them. If you did not know that you were saved before being baptized, you will know that you know that you know afterwards; because in fulfilling the condition, the promise is absolute as indicated by the word, "shall" in Acts of the Apostles 2:38.
 
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ScottA

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We Christians believe that God spoke and the entire universe leapt into existence.
Turning a piece of bread into His flesh is a relatively small miracle by comparison.

YOUR lack of faith is pathetic . . .
I would not speak against you having the understanding of a child, which is true. But your wicked attitude is not that of a child, and therefore the measure of grace afforded you, according to His word, will be equal.

Nonetheless, the use of parable language by God should have taught you that much, if not most, of what He has said is only in the "likeness" and the "image" of what is actually true. Which, apparently, you have not learned.

Perhaps it would help if we start with the truth about Santa Claus.
 
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justbyfaith

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I would not speak against you having the understanding of a child, which is true. But your wicked attitude is not that of a child, and therefore the measure of grace afforded you, according to His word, will be equal.

Nonetheless, the use of parable language by God should have taught you that much, if not most, of what He has said is only in the "likeness" and the "image" of what is actually true. Which, apparently, you have not learned.

Perhaps it would help if we start with the truth about Santa Claus.
Santa Claus was a 4th Century saint who may have been an overcomer as one designated Ephesus in the book of Revelation. :D
 
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BreadOfLife

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This is where the understanding of “literal” and “spiritual” understanding comes in.

I don’t believe Jesus meant to eat of His body literally. That would be Cannibalism and therefore He is teaching that we can murder.

What I believe Jesus is teaching us here is that we are to partake/eat of Him because He is the BREAD that came down from heaven. In other words, we don’t eat of Him literally rather by what He brings and that was the true Gospel!

To God Be The Glory
Not quite.

Jesus speaks literally too His followers AND He speaks figuratively. The Bread of Life Discourse in John 6 is no different.

It’s interesting that YOU use the word “cannibalism” in describing the Catholic belief on the Eucharist because that is PRECISELY what the pagan Romans accused the Early Christians of when they were persecuting them and feeding them to wild animals.

Now - if Jesus has stuck out his arm and told the people to take a bite – He would have been advocating cannibalism. That’s NOT what He did, however. In fact – He didn’t explain himself until the Last Supper, when He took bread and wine and transformed it into His Body and Blood – SACRAMENTALLY.

In John 6, Jesus says over and over that they must eat His flesh and drink His blood:

John 6:53-56
Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.
For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.


The normal Greek word for human eating is Phagon. This is NOT the word used in these verses. The word Trogon is used, which is the way an animal rips apart and gnaws at his food. John was stressing this point to his readers.

When the people start grumbling – Jesus doesn’t tell them that He is speaking “figuratively". He asks them:

John 6:62
“Does this SHOCK you?”

In verse 6:66, many of His followers left because they couldn’t handle what He was saying. This marks the ONLY time in the Gospel where His followers leave for doctrinal reasons.

What does Jesus say after they leave?? Does He say – “Wait – you misunderstood! I was only speaking figuratively!”
NO – He turns to the Twelve and says:

John 6:67
"Do you ALSO want to leave?"

Jesus MEANT what He said but the people left because of a lack of faith in what He was saying – the SAME way many Protestants and anti-Catholics do today.
 
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BreadOfLife

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I would not speak against you having the understanding of a child, which is true. But your wicked attitude is not that of a child, and therefore the measure of grace afforded you, according to His word, will be equal.

Nonetheless, the use of parable language by God should have taught you that much, if not most, of what He has said is only in the "likeness" and the "image" of what is actually true. Which, apparently, you have not learned.

Perhaps it would help if we start with the truth about Santa Claus.
TRANSLATION:
“Sure - I doubt God’s ability to transform bread and wine into His Body and Blood – but I’m STILL a ‘faithful’ follower!”.

You can’t have it BOTH ways my hypocritical friend . . .
 
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ScottA

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TRANSLATION:
“Sure - I doubt God’s ability to transform bread and wine into His Body and Blood – but I’m STILL a ‘faithful’ follower!”.

You can’t have it BOTH ways my hypocritical friend . . .
Maybe that's it...you're "translating."

No, faith is "following", not translating with your own understanding in worldly terms. And there is also "hearing" what the spirit says...which obviously, you are not doing but only referring to part of what is written, and therefore have drawn the wrong conclusion.

But then there is also the issue of just being foolish...as if the other He were also a real "lamb", and "manna" (good one day only), etc.. ("You can’t have it BOTH ways my hypocritical friend . . .")
 

Taken

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Water Baptism in Jesus' name has the power to save a man as a confession of Jesus Christ before men (see Matthew 10:32, Luke 12:8); and is a more potent confession of Him because you are identifying with Him not only with your mouth but in identification with His death, burial, and resurrection. I have been baptized in water (I say this in your response to your statement that I can do it if I want to); and I feel that the fact that I have received Acts 2:38 baptism has resulted in a greater boldness in my faith.

Also, if being baptized in Jesus' name automatically brings me into agreement with the Oneness Pentecostals, then that seems to me to be a supernatural work of the Holy Spirit, since I did not continue with them to be indoctrinated by them after receiving baptism from them. How does one magically agree with the doctrine a church merely from being baptized by them? Of course, it does say that being baptized in a certain way will result in being filled with the Holy Ghost (Acts 2:38)...so maybe that is the reason.



I think that 1 Peter 3:20-21 and Acts of the Apostles 22:16 teach to the contrary along with a plethora of other verses.

That a man can be saved apart from water baptism, I am not contending against. What I am saying is that water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins is a useful point of contact by which a person can obtain absolute assurance of salvation if all of the elements required are present. If anyone has assurance issues, receiving this sacrament according to Acts 2:38-39 can and will resolve them. If you did not know that you were saved before being baptized, you will know that you know that you know afterwards; because in fulfilling the condition, the promise is absolute as indicated by the word, "shall" in Acts of the Apostles 2:38.

Water does not save a man.
The Lord God saves a man, by His Word and through His Power.

And BTW, Noah was not dipped in Water.

Noah was SAVED FROM being destroyed by the Water.

The first destruction of the earth was WITH Water, Just like the First Baptism of man was WITH Water......It is a prelude to FINAL Baptism with FIRE, which PURIFIES.

The thing one is supposed to notice, concerning Noah's day....

The masses of People having fun, while Noah labored building an ark, as some estimate it took him about 100 years to build.
I can presume he was though a fool by the masses of People.

However when the rains came and the earth began flooding, the People were dying...AND Noah....was what?

Raised UP ABOVE THE FACE OF THE EARTH...

A prelude to what will be in the future, when FIRE shall destroy the Earth and the Saved shall be lifted above the face of the Earth.

And in the meantime, the People of the world occupy themselves in fun, and make fun of People who believe they will be Lifted up above the face of the earth.

Surely you must remember the Thief (hanging next to Jesus,) who became saved, but missed being "baptized" in Water.

How could that be, IF Water baptism is required?

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Nancy

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Let's try again with a different emphasis, so that you can see that your first statement in bold is a falsehood:

1 Peter 3:20-21
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

The salvation that is wrought does not remove the filth of the flesh, but it does wash away sins, Acts of the Apostles 22:16.

And also it is a confession of Jesus Christ before men (see Matthew 10:32, Luke 12:8) that will motivate the Lord to confess the one baptized before the Father and before the angels of God.

Can a person be saved apart from baptism? You bet. There is an absolute promise of salvation in Romans 10:8-13. Notice that this passage requires that we confess the Lord Jesus and believe in our hearts that He is risen from the dead. I believe that being baptized has the effect of producing this kind of faith in a person's heart if they are not sure that they have it. And calling on the name of the Lord also means confessing with the mouth; but I would not recommend for anyone to do this anonymously (see Matthew 13:20-21 (kjv), Luke 8:13) or without a sure faith in their hearts (as they may be fooling themselves if the faith is not there unto righteousness, Romans 10:10).

"I believe that being baptized has the effect of producing this kind of faith in a person's heart if they are not sure that they have it. And calling on the name of the Lord also means confessing with the mouth; but I would not recommend for anyone to do this anonymously (see Matthew 13:20-21 (kjv), Luke 8:13) or without a sure faith in their hearts (as they may be fooling themselves if the faith is not there unto righteousness, Romans 10:10)."

I have always equated water baptism with publicly "confessing with your mouth" that Christ Is Lord. But, still think we should be confessing with our daily "lives" that He is Lord! :)
 
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Ac28

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WRONG.

I won’t go into ALL of the perversion of your statement that “NOTHING” Jesus taught pertains to Gentiles – but your understanding of Baptism is WAY off.

I didn't say that nothing Jesus taught pertained to Gentiles. I said that nothing Christ commanded or directed to those Jews He ministered to in His earthly ministry had ANYTHING to do with Gentiles today. I stand by that. The reason you didn't get into it is because you're incapable, mainly because you don't obey 2Tim 2:15 and rightly divide what's for Israel and what's for Gentiles. If you want to prove me wrong, find a passage in Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles, the only books in the Bible that are written TO and ABOUT Gentiles who are not part of Israel, that says any commandments in the Gospels (Except for Christ, himself, and His sacrifice) are TO or ABOUT us today. You've spent your life believing 100% Israel things that you'll NEVER, EVER get.

Catholicism has about 45 years left and then, when the real Israel is back on the scene, Catholicism, i.e., fake Judaism, will disappear in an instant. Good riddance. Maybe you will be allowed to become a Jew like you've always dreamed of and practiced being. If Israel had not been set aside and had not ceased to be a nation, in God's eyes, about 64AD, it would have been impossible for the Catholic church to have existed.

Christ selected Paul to be the (only) Apostle to the Gentiles. Christ tutored Paul, starting on the Damascus Road. Throughout his ministry, Paul, alone, received many special revelations directly from Jesus Christ. Every word Paul said or wrote was God-breathed directly from Jesus Christ. Therefore, when you read Paul, you're reading Jesus Christ. The difference is that what Paul says applies to you and me, whereas, nothing Christ said in the 100% Israel Gospels is TO or ABOUT you, me, or anyone living today.
 
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Enoch111

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Also, concerning being born of water--you are taking an awful chance based on whether you have the right interpretation
When there are Scriptures to support a doctrine, there should be no concern. *Water* is clearly a metaphor for the Word of God (as it is also for the Holy Spirit in context). (words capitalized where necessary)

CLEANSED BY THE WATER OF THE WORD
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the Word...(Eph 5:25,26)

CLEANSED BY THE WORD
Now ye are clean through the Word which I have spoken unto you. (Jn 15:3)

BORN AGAIN BY THE WORD OF GOD (THE GOSPEL)

Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the Word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the Word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the Word which by the Gospel is preached unto you. (1 Pet 1:23-25)

BORN AGAIN OF WATER AND THE SPIRIT

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Jn 3:5)

BORN AGAIN OF CLEAN WATER AND THE SPIRIT

Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. (Ezek 36:25-27)

BEGOTTEN BY THE WORD OF TRUTH

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. Of his own will begat he us with the Word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. (Jas 1:17,18)

THE GOSPEL: THE POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION
For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. (Rom 1:16)
 

justbyfaith

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And BTW, Noah was not dipped in Water.

I believe that the ark did indeed go under water and only began to float after the water levels rose above its head.

Surely you must remember the Thief (hanging next to Jesus,) who became saved, but missed being "baptized" in Water.

How could that be, IF Water baptism is required?

#1, I do not say that water baptism is "required".

#2, there is nothing in scripture that says that the thief had never been baptized.

When there are Scriptures to support a doctrine, there should be no concern. *Water* is clearly a metaphor for the Word of God (as it is also for the Holy Spirit in context). (words capitalized where necessary)

In the last days men will turn aside from the faith and pay attention to doctrines of devils; certain destructive heresies will be introduced into the doctrine of the church. And I do not see how they would be successful if those doctrines were not somehow substantiated by some kind of perverted interpreting of the word of God...but it precludes that the doctrines of devils in question can be found in the word of the Lord.

This is why the Holy Spirit is needed; and also a reason why, when listening to teachers of the Bible, we need to make sure that they are the kind that bear the fruit of the Spirit...for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks...and therefore if the heart is good, good will come out of it....but if it is bad, bad will come out of it.
 

BreadOfLife

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Maybe that's it...you're "translating."

No, faith is "following", not translating with your own understanding in worldly terms. And there is also "hearing" what the spirit says...which obviously, you are not doing but only referring to part of what is written, and therefore have drawn the wrong conclusion.

But then there is also the issue of just being foolish...as if the other He were also a real "lamb", and "manna" (good one day only), etc.. ("You can’t have it BOTH ways my hypocritical friend . . .")
Ahhhhh, yes - "Hearing" the Spirit".

You mean like the founders of the tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering Protestant sects who ALL teach conflicting doctrines based on what they supposedly "heard" the Spirit tell them??
God is NOT the Author of Protestant confusion - MEN are . . .
 
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BreadOfLife

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I didn't say that nothing Jesus taught pertained to Gentiles. I said that nothing Christ commanded or directed to those Jews He ministered to in His earthly ministry had ANYTHING to do with Gentiles today. I stand by that. The reason you didn't get into it is because you're incapable, mainly because you don't obey 2Tim 2:15 and rightly divide what's for Israel and what's for Gentiles. If you want to prove me wrong, find a passage in Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles, the only books in the Bible that are written TO and ABOUT Gentiles who are not part of Israel, that says any commandments in the Gospels (Except for Christ, himself, and His sacrifice) are TO or ABOUT us today. You've spent your life believing 100% Israel things that you'll NEVER, EVER get.

Catholicism has about 45 years left and then, when the real Israel is back on the scene, Catholicism, i.e., fake Judaism, will disappear in an instant. Good riddance. Maybe you will be allowed to become a Jew like you've always dreamed of and practiced being. If Israel had not been set aside and had not ceased to be a nation, in God's eyes, about 64AD, it would have been impossible for the Catholic church to have existed.

Christ selected Paul to be the (only) Apostle to the Gentiles. Christ tutored Paul, starting on the Damascus Road. Throughout his ministry, Paul, alone, received many special revelations directly from Jesus Christ. Every word Paul said or wrote was God-breathed directly from Jesus Christ. Therefore, when you read Paul, you're reading Jesus Christ. The difference is that what Paul says applies to you and me, whereas, nothing Christ said in the 100% Israel Gospels is TO or ABOUT you, me, or anyone living today.
Ahhhhh - another ignorant "Catholic doomsday" predictor.
Smarter people than YOU have been predicting the end of the Catholic Church for 2000 years - and they're ALL DEAD.

Paul DIDN'T teach ANY of the Commandments of Christ??
YOU don't know your Bible, son . . .

Jesus
"You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; 19 Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor as yourself," (Matt. 19:18-19).

Paul
"Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. 9 For this, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no wrong to a neighbor; love therefore is the fulfillment of the law," (Rom. 13:8-10)


Paul also reiterated MANY of the SAME things Jesus taught in the Gospels:

Jesus

"For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels; and will then recompense every man according to his deeds," (Matt. 16:27).

Paul
"who will render to every man according to his deeds," (Rom. 2:6).

Jesus
"Whoever listens to YOU listens to ME; whoever rejects YOU rejects ME; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me" (Luke 10:16).

Paul

"So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings WE passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thess. 2:15).

Jesus
"For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes," (John 5:21).

Paul
"For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive," (1 Cor. 15:22).


If you wanna talk about "rightly diving" Scripture - then maybe you should practice what Paul preached . . .

Christ's Church isn't "fake" Judaism - it's the FULFILLMENT of Judaism, Einstein.
 

justbyfaith

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Just to be sure we are all on the same page...it is clear that the root of our salvation is not our obedience but in our simple faith in Jesus Christ alone (even in what He did for us on the Cross)...and that the fruit of obedience stems from that root as the result of that salvation having been wrought in our lives.
 
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ScottA

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Ahhhhh, yes - "Hearing" the Spirit".

You mean like the founders of the tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering Protestant sects who ALL teach conflicting doctrines based on what they supposedly "heard" the Spirit tell them??
God is NOT the Author of Protestant confusion - MEN are . . .
No...I mean "“He who has an ear, let him hear" -Jesus.

Whom you speak against.
 

Taken

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I believe that the ark did indeed go under water

and only began to float after the water levels rose above its head.

Huh? You believe the ark was completely under water?

#1, I do not say that water baptism is "required".

Then what is your POINT of appearing to argue a necessity of Water Baptism?


In the last days men will turn aside from the faith and pay attention to doctrines of devils; certain destructive heresies will be introduced into the doctrine of the church. And I do not see how they would be successful if those doctrines were not somehow substantiated by some kind of perverted interpreting of the word of God...but it precludes that the doctrines of devils in question can be found in the word of the Lord.

This is why the Holy Spirit is needed; and also a reason why, when listening to teachers of the Bible, we need to make sure that they are the kind that bear the fruit of the Spirit...for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks...and therefore if the heart is good, good will come out of it....but if it is bad, bad will come out of it.

Uh huh.

Glory to God,
Taken