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Says Martin Luther. Our sins were forgiven on the cross. There is nothing left for us to do but accept the gift of grace.
From what I understand, Martin Luther said, "So when the devil accusses you, say 'I am a sinner, so what of it? For I know a man who paid my price"
There seems to be a lot of this type of reasoning going around! :blink:
Justifying our own sins is as bad as being obsessed with them.
Are you saying Christ's atonement is incomplete without some kind of work on our part?
So we can do waht we want then?
Are you saying Christ's atonement is incomplete without some kind of work on our part?
And to all those who reject the idea of Mary being able to intervene they should think aobut what the alternative wouldbe like.
That's what I thought. I thought that Jesus interceeds for us with God the father but what if he refuses? Then Mary has to interceed for us to him for him to interceed with the father.
it's like going to the king to ask for a favour. If you appear before the king's throne as a dirty and smelly peasant then he will refuse your request or even to hear it or even to see you at all but if you have a friend in the king's service then they could put in a good word for you and your request might get granted. For how must a sinner look to God and all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
For centuries Mary ahs taken into her care the souls of sinners who otherwise would have been condemned because they didn't follow her son and live for him. Mary has a special place in her heart for such sinners and through her intercession they can be turned around. That man got another chance, where otherwise he would have be dammed forever, not a few thousand years in Purgatory but forever and ever becuase he had not lived for Christ. Are we nt to rejoice in his being given a second chance?
That's what I thought. I thought that Jesus interceeds for us with God the father but what if he refuses? Then Mary has to interceed for us to him for him to interceed with the father.
it's like going to the king to ask for a favour. If you appear before the king's throne as a dirty and smelly peasant then he will refuse your request or even to hear it or even to see you at all but if you have a friend in the king's service then they could put in a good word for you and your request might get granted. For how must a sinner look to God and all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
For centuries Mary ahs taken into her care the souls of sinners who otherwise would have been condemned because they didn't follow her son and live for him. Mary has a special place in her heart for such sinners and through her intercession they can be turned around. That man got another chance, where otherwise he would have be dammed forever, not a few thousand years in Purgatory but forever and ever becuase he had not lived for Christ. Are we nt to rejoice in his being given a second chance?
Mary is the mother of Jesus of Nazareth King of the Jews and he is God because he is God the Son, the second person of the Trinity.
No I'm not a heretic, what I'm saying is Catholic doctrine and I'm an Anglo-Catholic with the same doctinres and traditions as my Papist brothers and sisters (except fo teh the Primacy of Peter of course). I'm not a roman Catholic because the Pope to me is a foreign prince.
Episkopos
Are you of the Greek Orthodox tradition?