Behold, a New Heavens and a New Earth!

[Enoch111]

wadr = With All Due Respect

Usually used ironically.

 

[Trekson]

But one can hardly say that all the relationships here fit the exact mold you're going with, can we? The Bride is not exactly traditional. The groom and...well...the groom's Father isn't really either. And Paul, while, true, is also 'servant' to Christ, he is also part of the Bride, to whom he is playing the father of! Does that disqualify him? No. What is he talking about then? In other places (1 Cor. 4:15; 2 Cor. 6:13; 12:14) Paul talks about how he feels like he's their (the Corinthian's ) father in the faith. And thus, he feels, like God often does, a divine jealousy for his 'children'. The description he uses is one of a daughter. A Jewish father had a duty to make sure his daughter was presented pure on her wedding day. Why does Paul use this analaogy? Because the Church does, in point of face, belong to Christ, just like a bride belongs to her husband to be. The Bride price has been paid, promises exchanged, love declared. The only thing we are waiting for, is the groom to come and recieve his Bride. Paul wants to make sure that the Bride is ready, and not found making eyes at some other guy or wearing PJ's.

Of course you are free to believe what you want however when we do get there, I'm not going to jump to the head table, I'll wait to be invited. It would be embarrassing to be told to move because we aren't who we think we are.

 

[Naomi25]

I will never leave or forsake you?

Did I say Christ has forsaken us? What he has given us, is his Spirit. That was his promise to remain with us. You cannot deny that 1: he said he was 'going' (John 14:2-3, 16:7) and 2: that he actually went (Acts 1:9-11).
And it is also just as clear that the point of his going was so he could give us his Spirit:

Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. -John 16:7

As the Spirit and Christ are one, just as Christ and the Father are one, Christ, is, in fact, with us still, just not as he was.
But, as I pointed out before, that still does not negate all the clear passages that tell us that something more is ahead for the Christian.

 

[Naomi25]

I believe we receive children now, born out of our indwelling relationship with God. Many times John says my little children.

So...we could be the bride, the guests, or the kids.
I think I might stick with the 'Bride'...I think I see more biblical evidence for it. But that's just me, I'm not particularly concerned what others think!

 

[Naomi25]

I'd prefer it if you just addressed the Scripture/elephant in your room, but sure

I've tried that. I do my best to give scripture and try to exegete it; you give bizarre comments, chase your conversational tail and often come out with heresy. All in all, it doesn't go well, for me or for you, or for anyone else in the vicinity. So...I'm not sure why I'd be keen to go back there.

 

[Naomi25]

Of course you are free to believe what you want however when we do get there, I'm not going to jump to the head table, I'll wait to be invited. It would be embarrassing to be told to move because we aren't who we think we are.

Snort! Well, I imagine so! But, I don't think, in the actual situation, that God will let us misunderstand the situation...we'll know where we are supposed to go, be that head table or guest table! And really, I'd be chuffed with either one. Who wouldn't? It's not like when the time comes anyone sitting at the guest table is going to be smoldering in anger because they're not the bride...they're going to be too busy enjoying themselves!

 

[Trekson]

Snort! Well, I imagine so! But, I don't think, in the actual situation, that God will let us misunderstand the situation...we'll know where we are supposed to go, be that head table or guest table! And really, I'd be chuffed with either one. Who wouldn't? It's not like when the time comes anyone sitting at the guest table is going to be smoldering in anger because they're not the bride...they're going to be too busy enjoying themselves!

I had in mind Luke 14:8-11.

 

[bbyrd009]

I've tried that. I do my best to give scripture and try to exegete it; you give bizarre comments, chase your conversational tail and often come out with heresy. All in all, it doesn't go well, for me or for you, or for anyone else in the vicinity. So...I'm not sure why I'd be keen to go back there.

Return to Me, and I will return to you would be the reason why I guess Naomi, but you are free to seek immortality if you want to, and change any definitions in Scripture to suit that agenda too

 

[Naomi25]

I had in mind Luke 14:8-11.

Yeah...I don't really think the context of that parable has anything to do with the Church's relationship with Christ. It's more to do with Discipleship and how we see ourselves and others; how we treat them. This will, of course, be reflected in the final judgement...our rewards, etc. But, as the Church's relationship with Christ was secured by his work on the cross, our works will not directly effect this...