Behold, a New Heavens and a New Earth!

[Waiting on him]

Seed; What are we talking about here?
1 Corinthians 4:15 KJV
[15] For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

Tecarta BibleBegotten

 

[Waiting on him]

Isaac sees Rebecca and he knew her immediately he didn’t waste any time. The Barron woman has more children that the woman married to the world?the scripture is rich with this.

 

[Waiting on him]

He cannot sin because his seed remains in him?

 

[Naomi25]

My perspective is he’s already consummated the marriage the minute he knew you. To the others he says I never knew you. I believe he’s preparing a house to receive us and any others he will know in the future

I think perhaps the 'consumation' imagry is still yet to come. In the "Already, Not Yet" sort of way. We are certainly betrothed, which, in Christ's day, was just as binding as an actual marriage in many ways. But, the wedding has not yet taken place. The 'wedding' being the return of Christ to fully consumate his Kingdom and to dwell among his people. We live in that time where we know many of his promises, but have yet to see the ultimate fulfilment of them.
But...that's just my opinion on the matter.

 

[Enoch111]

Not quite true Enoch, the bible comes right out and calls us His Body, btw that's not a metaphor...

Now you are just digging yourself deeper into a hole. We are not literal limbs and organs of Christ, and you know it. *Body* is a metaphor, just like Bride or Building.

 

[brakelite]

View attachment 5299
The style I paint in is called Impressionism

Looks like a reflection in shattered glass. Interesting. I like it, though I am not sure I would have it on my wall...but when it comes to art, I am definitely not a connoisseur . More realist than impressionist. Impressionism suggests to me the punk rock of the art world...sometimes has something positive to say, but comes across a little rough.

 

[Waiting on him]

I think perhaps the 'consumation' imagry is still yet to come. In the "Already, Not Yet" sort of way. We are certainly betrothed, which, in Christ's day, was just as binding as an actual marriage in many ways. But, the wedding has not yet taken place. The 'wedding' being the return of Christ to fully consumate his Kingdom and to dwell among his people. We live in that time where we know many of his promises, but have yet to see the ultimate fulfilment of them.
But...that's just my opinion on the matter.

Not what I see with Isaac and Rebecca. Fellowship itself is defined as social intercourse He says I am in you, do you see this as something that takes place at a later date? I believe our only hurdle in this is time, he’s not governed by time.

 

[Trekson]

I'm guessing by "the first verse" you mean this?

Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. -Ephesians 5:25–27

So...this verse is a metaphor? Wow...aren't YOU supposed to be the literalist and me the idealist? I'll grant you that the relationship Christ has with the Church is not the exact same as husband and wife have here on earth! But, just as we commit to each other, cherish each other, love each other, and so many other things, Paul is drawing those connections between the Church's relationship with Jesus. Why? Because there is that connection there. Not sexual, but in every other way a godly marriage should be. And it goes further than that. When we consider the OT, how Israel was the unfaithful wife of God, we now see in this verse that Jesus takes his people and washes them clean. He loves his elect so much, he cleanses them from any adultery and makes her ready for the marriage. The highlighted part sums it up. It sounds more like a family to me. Matt. 12:48-50 - "But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother." Wouldn't that have been a good place to mention, bride or wife? So y'all want to believe we are sons, daughters, brothers, sisters, mothers, joint heirs (siblings), body, building, etc. yet it never actually says wife or bride but that's what you want to focus on!!!

The 'second' verse, I am assuming is this:

Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. -Rev 19:7,8

You say that it is not stated outright that this group is the Church. But...it is not denied either. (Well wouldn't that be the same as the bible doesn't "deny" that Adam and Eve had several children before the fall...then it must be true, right?) And, when we consider the white robes, and look back in Rev and other NT references to whom wears the white robes, the conclusion is obvious. I explained the obvious difference in my reply to Enoch. If you choose not to see the difference, well, that is your choice. Why do you assume it is the church, angels and Jewish saints wear white too?

I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. -Revelation 7:14

To me there is a big difference between "washed in the blood" and "made herself ready."

Besides...here's the very, very twisty, thing in your logic. Rev 19 says "Saints", right? You say "this means NOT the Church". But you've just broken away from your own Dispensational system, and you're missing a rather obvious fact. Dispensationalist say that the Church is the Bride who attends the marriage supper, and that there is a clear distinction between 'church and saint'. I told you before, I'm not your typical dispensationalist.

You seem to have dismissed that. But, in dismissing that, you then refuse to see the obvious...if that's not so, then when we read "Saint" in Revelation, we are, in point of fact, reading 'Church'. How do I say that? Because these people are Christians. And what is a Christian? A Christian is someone who has accepted Jesus and has had him wash away their sins. They've had the Holy Spirit come upon them and they are a new creation. In point of fact; they are now within the body of Christ....the church. So, when we read in Rev 19 that the bride has made herself ready by clothing herself in the pure white linen of the righteous deeds of the Saints...well, I hate to say it, but we're back to the literal again.

Here's something interesting. Did you know Paul often made it a point to differentiate between Jewish (Christian) saints and Gentile believers?
He makes this distinction in 1 Cor. 1:2, Eph. 1:1, Rom. 8:1-4, 15:25-33. Israel were known as saints before the church came into existence so why couldn't the group from Rev. 19 be believing Jews/Israel? After all most dispensationalists will tell you the church isn't mentioned between Rev. cps. 3-22.


And as I said to brakelite: The fine linen is the righteous deeds of the Saint? It's rather odd, isn't it, since we know that really, our righteous deeds are only what Christ gives us grace to do. But, as Ephesians tells us, he HAS washed us, and made us without blemish. He has cleaned us and made us ready to stand firm in the face of persecution, suffering and even death. Many dispensationalist will tell you that Christ wouldn't treat his bride that way by making her go through the so-called trib period. These are the white robes we have, when we pass from this life into the next, however it comes for us, still keeping our eyes on him. When we do that, we ARE the 5 wise virgins, and those people invited to the wedding banquet off the streets who do have the right attire. (So now we are attendants to the bride, guests at the wedding and the bride herself???!!)But...we are also the Bride, because we are clothed in find linen, and, as Paul says: Could it be that some are having an identity crisis?

For I feel a divine jealousy for you, since I betrothed you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ. -2 Corinthians 11:2

"betrothed": ἁρμόζω - harmozó - I fit, join; mid: (the middle indicating deep personal interest) I espouse, betroth; mid: I take a wife, give in marriage.

I also answered this one in my reply to Enoch, a servant usually doesn't officially betroth their master.

 

[Trekson]

Now you are just digging yourself deeper into a hole. We are not literal limbs and organs of Christ, and you know it. *Body* is a metaphor, just like Bride or Building.

Rom. 12 might beg to differ.

 

[Trekson]

In a post sure to outrage many, I'll share what I see is the difference between the body and the bride, but to all you potential haters just remember, it's only a different perspective, I'm NOT claiming it to be the gospel.

 

[bbyrd009]

The Barron woman has more children that the woman married to the world?

wadr imo
For the children of the desolate one are more numerous than the children of the married woman," says the LORD
is not saying what you are saying

He cannot sin because his seed remains in him?

cannot as in better not prolly​

 

[bbyrd009]

The 'wedding' being the return of Christ to fully consumate his Kingdom and to dwell among his people.

Galileans, why do you stand there looking up into the sky?

 

[Trekson]

Hi bbyrd009 - What does wadr mean?

 

[Naomi25]

Not what I see with Isaac and Rebecca. Fellowship itself is defined as social intercourse He says I am in you, do you see this as something that takes place at a later date? I believe our only hurdle in this is time, he’s not governed by time.

The bible says a lot about the sort of relationship we are to have...and are capable of having, with Jesus now. And yes, it's truly amazing. It changes lives, it changes cultures and it gives hope and joy and beauty.
However, the bible still gives us a very clear understanding that what we have now, is not what we will have.

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also. -John 14:3

For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. Therefore encourage one another with these words. -1 Thessalonians 4:16–18

And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” -Revelation 21:3–4

There is going to come a time where Jesus 'comes' for his people. And when that day arrives, we will always be with him, and all former things will pass away; death, mourning, crying or pain.
As much as I love having Christ in my life now...I look forward to that day even more. Death still effects me. Pain still stalks me, tears still come too often. When we can see Christ face to face, the Kingdom will have truly come, and these things will be no more.

 

[Naomi25]

I also answered this one in my reply to Enoch, a servant usually doesn't officially betroth their master.

But one can hardly say that all the relationships here fit the exact mold you're going with, can we? The Bride is not exactly traditional. The groom and...well...the groom's Father isn't really either. And Paul, while, true, is also 'servant' to Christ, he is also part of the Bride, to whom he is playing the father of! Does that disqualify him? No. What is he talking about then? In other places (1 Cor. 4:15; 2 Cor. 6:13; 12:14) Paul talks about how he feels like he's their (the Corinthian's ) father in the faith. And thus, he feels, like God often does, a divine jealousy for his 'children'. The description he uses is one of a daughter. A Jewish father had a duty to make sure his daughter was presented pure on her wedding day. Why does Paul use this analaogy? Because the Church does, in point of face, belong to Christ, just like a bride belongs to her husband to be. The Bride price has been paid, promises exchanged, love declared. The only thing we are waiting for, is the groom to come and recieve his Bride. Paul wants to make sure that the Bride is ready, and not found making eyes at some other guy or wearing PJ's.

 

[Naomi25]

Galileans, why do you stand there looking up into the sky?

Ah bbyrd...it's really best we don't go around this merry-go-round again, yeah? I know what you think, you know what I think. How about you ignore me if you think I'm wrong, instead of reminding me that you still disagree (I don't really need reminding, thanks), and I'll do the same to you.

 

[Waiting on him]

The bible says a lot about the sort of relationship we are to have...and are capable of having, with Jesus now. And yes, it's truly amazing. It changes lives, it changes cultures and it gives hope and joy and beauty.
However, the bible still gives us a very clear understanding that what we have now, is not what we will have.

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also. -John 14:3

For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. Therefore encourage one another with these words. -1 Thessalonians 4:16–18

And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” -Revelation 21:3–4

There is going to come a time where Jesus 'comes' for his people. And when that day arrives, we will always be with him, and all former things will pass away; death, mourning, crying or pain.
As much as I love having Christ in my life now...I look forward to that day even more. Death still effects me. Pain still stalks me, tears still come too often. When we can see Christ face to face, the Kingdom will have truly come, and these things will be no more.

I will never leave or forsake you?

 

[Waiting on him]

But one can hardly say that all the relationships here fit the exact mold you're going with, can we? The Bride is not exactly traditional. The groom and...well...the groom's Father isn't really either. And Paul, while, true, is also 'servant' to Christ, he is also part of the Bride, to whom he is playing the father of! Does that disqualify him? No. What is he talking about then? In other places (1 Cor. 4:15; 2 Cor. 6:13; 12:14) Paul talks about how he feels like he's their (the Corinthian's ) father in the faith. And thus, he feels, like God often does, a divine jealousy for his 'children'. The description he uses is one of a daughter. A Jewish father had a duty to make sure his daughter was presented pure on her wedding day. Why does Paul use this analaogy? Because the Church does, in point of face, belong to Christ, just like a bride belongs to her husband to be. The Bride price has been paid, promises exchanged, love declared. The only thing we are waiting for, is the groom to come and recieve his Bride. Paul wants to make sure that the Bride is ready, and not found making eyes at some other guy or wearing PJ's.

I believe we receive children now, born out of our indwelling relationship with God. Many times John says my little children.

 

[bbyrd009]

Ah bbyrd...it's really best we don't go around this merry-go-round again, yeah? I know what you think, you know what I think. How about you ignore me if you think I'm wrong, instead of reminding me that you still disagree (I don't really need reminding, thanks), and I'll do the same to you.

I'd prefer it if you just addressed the Scripture/elephant in your room, but sure

 

[amadeus]

Hi bbyrd009 - What does wadr mean?

wadr = With All Due Respect