Behold the Man

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Wormwood

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Jesus is Immanuel, “God with us.” As the Apostle Paul said, “He is the image of the invisible God” (Col. 1:15a). There are a host of texts that point to Christ’s divine nature and his role as the Creator of all things. John tells us not only that Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning, but also that all things that were created were created through him (cf. John 1:1-3). I have argued these issues at length here on this board, but that is not the purpose of this post. This is for traditional Christians who understand these concepts well and have no problem embracing the divinity of Jesus. This is to encourage believers to wrestle with the concept of the full humanity of Jesus as well.

I believe it is important for us to think about the implications of Christ’s full humanity. It is important that we recognize that Jesus was made like us in every way. Many Christians want to put Jesus up on the divine category only to find him completely incomprehensible. Suddenly they can no longer identify with Jesus, nor do they feel he can identify with them. I mean, how would we know what its like to be a God-man and how would a God-man understand me?

What if Christ’s extraordinary life was not the direct result of his divine power? I think it is important for us to understand that Jesus was made fully human and truly experienced life as we experience it. Scripture teaches us that he “grew in wisdom and stature and in favor with God and men” (Luke 2:46). Jesus, as a man, did not know everything. He fully embraced our humanity and grew up like a normal human being. He had to learn and grow. There is no doubt that even from a young age his insight was unparalleled. However, I believe those insights were forged through his passionate pursuit of the Father and not because of divine advantage. Moreover, Jesus did miracles through the power of the Holy Spirit (cf. Luke 4:14). I think this suggests that Jesus did not rely on his own divine nature, but relied on the person of the Holy Spirit to empower him as a human. How could Jesus be tempted to sin when God cannot be tempted by sin? Again, Jesus, though fully divine, operated entirely as a human and experienced life just like you and me in this world.

Why does this matter? It matters because God understands. God did not take on human form and then use his divine powers to shield himself from all of our growing, struggles, temptations and suffering. Rather, he put all of his power and privilege aside. Not only did he become like us, but he even became the lowest of the low and died the most humiliating of all deaths (cf. Phil 2:6-8). Although he is the greatest, he can identify with the lowest. Truly he was like us in every way. Jesus was fully human.

At times, we may imagine God to be distant and disconnected. However, Jesus gives us quite a different picture. God knows what it is like to walk in our skin. He knows what it is like to have to learn, grow, face unknowns, and become so tired that even a furious storm on the open sea isn’t strong enough to fight off the sleep. He knows what it is like to feel hungry, thirsty, cold, weak, mistreated, endure relentless pain and take his final breath. God is closer than you think and understands you better than you think. He knows where you are and also knows how to overcome. Whatever you are facing, you can take it to him.

“For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.” (Hebrews 4:15–16, ESV)
 
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shturt678

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Thank you Wormwood for your caring again!

So encouraging to meet another 24/7 Christian that I can relate to let alone an encouraging post.

Old Jack

btw "Wormwood" in Rev.8:11 is one of my more interesting areas of study, ie, thank you again.
 

Wormwood

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Thank you Jack. Yep. Wormwood gets a bad wrap. However, sometimes it is the uncomfortable and bitter things in life that God seeks to use to turn us toward the true source of living water.

Be blessed!
 

DPMartin

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We like to think that the challenge to the Lord God was to walk in human flesh, the Son of man. It’s not so, one must consider God always was, hence forever always was, therefore He was before there was any earth or heaven before there was time, and energy, before there was a creation to be in. For as long as forever, nothing to hear Him, nothing that would or could acknowledge His Presence and that He was. This generation can’t go without there cell phones for five minutes. We are not suffering anything that God hasn't lived through already, what Jesus did in the flesh was an undesirable thing for Him to do other than for our sakes, but it was truly a walk in the park compared to what He has already been through.
Granted, we go on with this suffering and that suffering, and it does suck. But when it comes to rejection, isolation, disregarded harassed persecutions so on and so forth. If you noticed, Jesus didn’t even flinch. When challenged about His identity as Son of God, He didn’t flinch. He didn’t have to give it a thought to figure out what to say or do. When there was nothing He knew who He was, what could what He has created possibly do to create doubt?
It is true that He came into the world as any man does and left the world as the lowest in the world do. But what if Israel responded to His Presence in the world believing and crowned Him King? Wasn’t He born into the world via Israeli royalty, that was disregarded by the powers that be in that day? If Joseph, Mary’s husband was King which by birth right he could have been, Jesus would have been on the fast track to rule.
The Truth is we don’t know what the Lord our God has been through and long suffered for our sakes, which is a hole lot more then what we have suffered. And walking in our shoes wasn’t it. He cut the path for us to live in the Presence of God, in peace with God. Something He has been doing forever.


God didn’t send His Beloved Son into the world to glorify the sufferings of men, He came into the world to be Glorified in the presence of men.
 

Wormwood

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DPMartin,

Are you suggesting that God suffered more by being lonely before the creation of the world than in his humiliation and suffering in Christ? There is zero Scriptural support for this and it implies that God needs us and creation in order to not suffer from loneliness and receives his value from our praise. God has never been alone. He is Triune and always exists in community and love. He does not need us or this creation and this creation adds nothing to Him that he did not possess prior to making it. To suggest otherwise is to claim that God is insufficient in and of himself.

I wont even get into the Israel bit. I find its off base in its premise and really has nothing to do with this topic.
 
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DPMartin

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Wormwood said:
DPMartin,

Are you suggesting that God suffered more by being lonely before the creation of the world than in his humiliation and suffering in Christ? There is zero Scriptural support for this and it implies that God needs us and creation in order to not suffer from loneliness and receives his value from our praise. God has never been alone. He is Triune and always exists in community and love. He does not need us or this creation and this creation adds nothing to Him that he did not possess prior to making it. To suggest otherwise is to claim that God is insufficient in and of himself.

I wont even get into the Israel bit. I find its off base in its premise and really has nothing to do with this topic.

I had a recent conversation with some one I know that works and runs a ministry with the chronic homelessness. And he was describing his conflict with the mind set that poverty is Godliness, and what you’ve posted sounds a lot like suffering is Godliness, which is also like saying cleanliness is Godliness. Men suffer punishments for all kinds of things that are unacceptable to their fellow man, and they aren’t godly are they? Men suffered ailments, mental illnesses, that Jesus healed. Was their suffering Godliness? if so why would Jesus eliminate some ones Godliness?

Glorifying the human experience in the flesh rather then God’s nature in the Spirit is a habit in some theologies and isms. The Lord Jesus walked through man’s humiliation in the flesh, not His, God has no humility. The Lord Jesus walked through man’s sufferings, not His, though in the sence of long suffering is true, but all is created for His pleasure. Just because Jesus carried our sins, doesn't mean the sin was His does it? Just as you’ve mentioned He allowed Himself to walk as men do, but these issues men have are not His. He heals them because doesn’t have sickness or worse. He has the power of Life and to give Life and came into a condemned place, and saved the condemned from the condemnation. Hence walking the Way God made us to be that was not condemned. It seems those who believe as you believe that God was changed in some way because His Son came into the world. Sorry the last verse in Lk:3: states that Adam was son of God. How does that work in your, what did you call it, “Triune” theology?
And from what I get, you are insisting that God has no expectation in the fulfillment of His Word. And if He has no expectation in the fulfillment of His Word, then what are we waiting for? Why would God promise fulfillment, if He had no desire for its fulfillment also? It sounds like you really don’t have a relationship with the God of Israel through His Son.
Also the Lord says specifically here that he was by himself, where do you get that communal from forever before creation jive at? It sounds like you are referring to some kind of theology?
Isa:44:24: Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
This would be referring to creation Gen:1:1 correct? You know, the making of heaven and earth.
And are you really going to try and tell me that God, the Creator and Judge doesn’t require His glorification and acknowledgment of who He is, in His Presence. There are to many scriptures that say otherwise. “For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.” is said in just about any church that is God’s church. Good luck with that.
 

Wormwood

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DP,

1. Nothing in my post suggests that suffering is godliness. Where are you getting this? I said God understands our sufferings. We have a great High Priest who is able to identify with us in every way, yet was without sin. That was the point.

2. All of God's promises are "yes" to us in Christ Jesus. Jesus did not fail in his mission for Israel as it would seem you are proposing. God's Word is fulfilled. Jesus said, "I did not come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it." I believe he did just that.

3. God is communal. God does not need us to love and be loving. God does not need us to receive glory. Nor does he need us to give him joy. It is our duty because God is due all glory and honor. But it is a great mistake to confuse our requirement to glorify God and God being lacking in some way if we do not fulfill our obligations. God is not dependent upon what we give him. He is wholly self sufficient. God's abundant life is made manifest for our sake...not his.

“And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.” (John 17:5, ESV)
“Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world.” (John 17:24, ESV)

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life— the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us—” (1 John 1:1–2, ESV)

“‘Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool. What kind of house will you build for me, says the Lord, or what is the place of my rest?” (Acts 7:49, ESV)
 

HymnSeeker

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My understanding of this topic is that Christ was equally God and man. He was divine, of that we can have no doubt, but He also got hungry, got thirsty, grew tired, and even experienced fear in the face of death (the last one being illustrated in His pleading with the Father to let the cup pass from Him right before Judas came with the guard.)

It is my belief, therefore, that Jesus while possessing the qualities of God, also possesed all of the base desires and instincts of humanity. I have theories for why God might have Jesus live our lives this way, but I feel that might be a topic for another thread.