Being filled vs being baptized with the Spirit

[Godslittleservant]

When the Holy Spirit came upon the 120 people( Act 1:15) in the upper room, it is the same Holy Spirit we receive now. When Born Again from above, we are still in our carnal mind and body, but babies in Christ and we have to learn, called Sanctification., so Peter spoke from his own experience. A mature Christian yields to the Holy Spirit and receives guidance from the Holy Spirit that indwells him.. Only an OT prophet was given the words of God to speak.

If you can kindly show me the scripture that say all in the upper room showed signs of the spirit coming upon them.
Please don't criticize me but from what I read the spirit only came upon the Apostles. They were the only ones showing signs and wonders from the scriptures I read and please show me where this supernatural event is recorded again as happening to all the converts.

 

[marks]

If you can kindly show me the scripture that say all in the upper room showed signs of the spirit coming upon them.
Please don't criticize me but from what I read the spirit only came upon the Apostles. They were the only ones showing signs and wonders from the scriptures I read and please show me where this supernatural event is recorded again as happening to all the converts.

Acts 1:12-15 KJV
12) Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.
13) And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James.
14) These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.
15) And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty)

Acts 2:1-4 KJV
1) And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2) And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3) And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4) And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

The passage just says that there were about 120 disciples, and then that they were all in one place, in one accord. To me this says that all the disciples were filled with the Spirit.

Much love!

 

[marks]

They were the only ones showing signs and wonders from the scriptures

Acts 6:8 KJV
And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.

Acts 15:12 KJV
Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.

Much love!

 

[Rockerduck]

If you can kindly show me the scripture that say all in the upper room showed signs of the spirit coming upon them.
Please don't criticize me but from what I read the spirit only came upon the Apostles. They were the only ones showing signs and wonders from the scriptures I read and please show me where this supernatural event is recorded again as happening to all the converts.

Acts 2:1-12

 

[Godslittleservant]

This shows 2 different baptisms, is that correct?

Much love!

Yes and no
Yes the baptism of John is obsolete now but it was pointing to the same that Jesus was going to baptize with why?

Because remember Jesus told Nicodemus that one must be born of water and spirit?

Johns baptism only dealt with the first half because his could not include the spirit for Jesus had not yet been glorified (the cross)

So while John's baptism was for the remission of sin as with the one in the name Of Jesus Christ it could not give the spirit only the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ could do that

So after the cross we see Peter preaching (the spirit giving him his words) that now it is complete that the Baptism in Jesus name is still in water for the remission of sin but now gives the indwelling spirit as promised this is why his is greater than John's. John's was not complete but pointed to the coming kingdom in which the baptism that Jesus would baptize with is in water for the remission of sin but now gives the indwelling spirit just as John said he would do.

 

[marks]

Yes and no
Yes the baptism of John is obsolete now but it was pointing to the same that Jesus was going to baptize with why?

Yes and no? I don't think that answer really works.

I'm reading this as two things. John baptized you with water, but you will be baptized in the Holy Spirit not many days from now, is that what He said? You had this, now you'll have that.

It seems to me these are not the same.

Because remember Jesus told Nicodemus that one must be born of water and spirit?

I interpret this as water birth, that is, childbirth. We have to be born a person, and then we have to be born again God's person. I know some interpret this as you must be born in baptism, and you must be born of the Spirit. I'm not aware of any passage which settles that issue, except in Ephesians 4, that there is one baptism.

Jesus, in Acts, tells us that there was John's baptism, and now there will be the Spirit baptism. Paul taught one baptism, that this was baptism into Christ, into His death.

Much love!

 

[Godslittleservant]

Acts 6:8 KJV
And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.

Acts 15:12 KJV
Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.

Much love!

Context ;
Acts 6:6 Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them.
7 And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.
8 And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.
Stephen along with a FEW others were selected to grow the church so the Apostle could be free to go forth and plant more churches.
While they received the signs it was not in the same manner as of the Apostles at Pentecost . The Apostles had to pray and lay hands on them for them to get this power. It is not biblical the same as some teach as the baptism of the holy ghost it is totally different in that it did not come upon them supernaturally as on the Apostles but by the apostles laying on of hand they are not the same.

Acts 15:12 Paul is an Apostle but honestly it does not say when he got his power but inference would suggest it happened straight from God as with the other Apostles.

 

[marks]

So after the cross we see Peter preaching (the spirit giving him his words) that now it is complete that the Baptism in Jesus name is still in water for the remission of sin but now gives the indwelling spirit as promised this is why his is greater than John's. John's was not complete but pointed to the coming kingdom in which the baptism that Jesus would baptize with is in water for the remission of sin but now gives the indwelling spirit just as John said he would do.

I'm curious, why did Paul write,

1 Corinthians 1:14-18 KJV
14) I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15) Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
16) And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
17) For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18) For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Here he is saying that he wasn't sent to baptize (though he did do some) but instead to preach the cross of Christ, because in that is the power of God to save. Not baptism?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Context ;
Acts 6:6 Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them.
7 And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.
8 And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.
Stephen along with a FEW others were selected to grow the church so the Apostle could be free to go forth and plant more churches.
While they received the signs it was not in the same manner as of the Apostles at Pentecost . The Apostles had to pray and lay hands on them for them to get this power. It is not biblical the same as some teach as the baptism of the holy ghost it is totally different in that it did not come upon them supernaturally as on the Apostles but by the apostles laying on of hand they are not the same.

Acts 15:12 Paul is an Apostle but honestly it does not say when he got his power but inference would suggest it happened straight from God as with the other Apostles.

Yes, that's true, I was just reviewing who did signs and wonders. But yes, you are correct.

How many disciples performed these miracles? Do we know? You've said a few others, but is that something we're told? I can't think of a place myself.

Paul and Barnabas may have also received the laying on of hands, or not, I don't think we know for sure, do we?

And are you certain that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is different between different people, because the circumstance in which it happens is different?

One other thing I'm hoping you'll clarify. Do you see the baptism of the Holy Spirit in rebirth only? A later event? Perhaps more than once? If you could fill in the blanks that will help me understand you better.

Much love!

 

[Rockerduck]

Context ;
Acts 6:6 Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them.
7 And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.
8 And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.
Stephen along with a FEW others were selected to grow the church so the Apostle could be free to go forth and plant more churches.
While they received the signs it was not in the same manner as of the Apostles at Pentecost . The Apostles had to pray and lay hands on them for them to get this power. It is not biblical the same as some teach as the baptism of the holy ghost it is totally different in that it did not come upon them supernaturally as on the Apostles but by the apostles laying on of hand they are not the same.

Acts 15:12 Paul is an Apostle but honestly it does not say when he got his power but inference would suggest it happened straight from God as with the other Apostles.

Apostolic gifts were only for the Apostles and died with the Apostles. Each Born Again from above believer in Christ has different gifts. Some stronger, some weaker. Some teachers, some preacher, etc.

 

[marks]

Apostolic gifts were only for the Apostles and died with the Apostles. Each Born Again from above believer in Christ has different gifts. Some stronger, some weaker. Some teachers, some preacher, etc.

Signs for the Jews, and wisdom for the Greeks.

When Israel finished their rejection of Jesus, the signs and wonders ended. But the spiritual ministry gifts continue.

Much love!

 

[Godslittleservant]

Yes and no? I don't think that answer really works.

I'm reading this as two things. John baptized you with water, but you will be baptized in the Holy Spirit not many days from now, is that what He said? You had this, now you'll have that.

It seems to me these are not the same.


I interpret this as water birth, that is, childbirth. We have to be born a person, and then we have to be born again God's person. I know some interpret this as you must be born in baptism, and you must be born of the Spirit. I'm not aware of any passage which settles that issue, except in Ephesians 4, that there is one baptism.

Jesus, in Acts, tells us that there was John's baptism, and now there will be the Spirit baptism. Paul taught one baptism, that this was baptism into Christ, into His death.

Much love!

I agree yes and no is not a good clarification let me try again.

I feel that yes John's baptism is in water for the remission of sin and is not the baptism in spirit that Jesus would baptize with.

Now the baptism that Jesus would baptize with talked about here with John would be the one on Acts 2:38 where we are told to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin and receive the indwelling spirit

now why I said yes and no the water baptism that John is preaching is temporary until Jesus finishes his work on the cross and gives full purpose to the baptism John taught. Jesus added the cross to the baptism John taught it was still of water as was Johns but now the cross has been fulfilled that Johns was pointing to so now the spirit is added (born of water and of Spirit (John 3:5)

The baptism that John said Jesus was to baptize with is the one that bears his name wouldn't it be?

I interpret this as water birth, that is, childbirth. We have to be born a person, and then we have to be born again God's person. I know some interpret this as you must be born in baptism, and you must be born of the Spirit. I'm not aware of any passage which settles that issue, except in Ephesians 4, that there is one baptism.

I understand what you are saying but I don't think Jesus would tell some one that you first must be born of a woman for that is so weird to tell someone you are talking to that they have to come through child birth they already have done that so no need to say such a thing but remember this is when Jesus is teaching water baptism for remission of sine and the Jews are rejecting it. Nicodemus has surely heard and quite possibly rejected it himself. The and Spirit part is not fully disclosed yet to the earth for Jesus time has not yet come so Jesus can only hint about it until the time has come.


The one baptism could it possibly that of the one that bears the Saviors name? Could it not possibly that of Acts 2:38 ? Could act 2:38 and Romans 6:3 be the one and the same?

 

[Godslittleservant]

I'm curious, why did Paul write,

1 Corinthians 1:14-18 KJV
14) I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15) Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
16) And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
17) For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18) For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Here he is saying that he wasn't sent to baptize (though he did do some) but instead to preach the cross of Christ, because in that is the power of God to save. Not baptism?

Much love!

Paul answered this for you context 1 Corinthians 1:10-15
10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;

15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.

It was because of the human nature to worship the baptizer in the day but Paul said it matters not how does the baptizing but that the gospel of Christ is preached and we are all united in the word.

Paul is preaching the gospel of Christ his death burial and resurrection.13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

Notice the questions and answer them and then tell me if Paul was not preaching baptism in the name of Jesus Christ in his gospel?

 

[Godslittleservant]

Apostolic gifts were only for the Apostles and died with the Apostles. Each Born Again from above believer in Christ has different gifts. Some stronger, some weaker. Some teachers, some preacher, etc.

I can agree with this. I feel that God still gives us gift to edify the body but not the supernatural gift that came with the out pouring of the spirit those were different and for a special reason for a season.

 

[Godslittleservant]

Acts 1:12-15 KJV
12) Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.
13) And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James.
14) These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.
15) And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty)

Acts 2:1-4 KJV
1) And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2) And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3) And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4) And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

The passage just says that there were about 120 disciples, and then that they were all in one place, in one accord. To me this says that all the disciples were filled with the Spirit.

Much love!

Acts 1:7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

Acts 1:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

Acts 1:43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.

According to scripture of the 120 only the Apostles got the power

 

[Rockerduck]

Signs for the Jews, and wisdom for the Greeks.

When Israel finished their rejection of Jesus, the signs and wonders ended. But the spiritual ministry gifts continue.

Much love!

Only the Apostles could bring dead people back to life. That doesn't happen anymore. Apostolic authority is what gave us the doctrines of the Christian faith. When the Apostles died the bible was finished. Visions and dreams still continue, as well as healings, but not to the degree the apostles had. Where if the Apostles Peter shadow fell of people they were healed. Where if the Apostle Paul's handkerchief was given to someone they were healed.

 

[marks]

According to scripture of the 120 only the Apostles got the power

I am seeing the affirmative statement you are calling attention to, that the apostles did signs and wonders, but is there a matching statement that others did not? I can't think of one, can you?

Nonetheless, I think you've got a point here, that what we know is that the Apostles received power, and laid hands on others that they would receive their ministries and abilities.

Leaving us again with Paul, whom we don't know for certain, right?

Good stuff!

Much love!

 

[marks]

Paul answered this for you context 1 Corinthians 1:10-15
10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;

15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.

It was because of the human nature to worship the baptizer in the day but Paul said it matters not how does the baptizing but that the gospel of Christ is preached and we are all united in the word.

Paul is preaching the gospel of Christ his death burial and resurrection.13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

Notice the questions and answer them and then tell me if Paul was not preaching baptism in the name of Jesus Christ in his gospel?

What I see Paul preaching is this:

1 Corinthians 1:14-18 KJV
14) I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15) Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
16) And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
17) For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18) For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Power to save is not said to be in baptism, Paul says it's in the preaching of the cross.

He is discussing division in the body, and talks about the identification with the one baptizing, so we're on the same page there. But then he adds this part that Jesus didn't send him actually to baptize, but to preach the cross, because that's were the power to save is.

Romans 10:8-15 KJV
8) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11) For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12) For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13) For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14) How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15) And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

This passage tells us the same thing, that preaching is what is important. The preacher preaches, the hearer believes, confesses, is saved. Yes?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Now the baptism that Jesus would baptize with talked about here with John would be the one on Acts 2:38 where we are told to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin and receive the indwelling spirit

Something to mention . . . we were not actually told to be baptized in Acts 2:38.

Acts 2:36-39 KJV
36) Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37) Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39) For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Peter addressed this to the "house of Israel". The question then is, does it also apply to us, now?

I feel that yes John's baptism is in water for the remission of sin and is not the baptism in spirit that Jesus would baptize with.

Why did John baptize?

Malachi 3:1 KJV
Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

Malachi 4:5-6 KJV
5) Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
6) And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Isaiah 40:3 KJV
The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

Matthew 11:10-14 KJV
10) For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
11) Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
12) And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
13) For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
14) And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

John was preparing the people for Jesus to come.

Matthew 21:24-26 KJV
24) And Jesus answered and said unto them, I also will ask you one thing, which if ye tell me, I in like wise will tell you by what authority I do these things.
25) The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?
26) But if we shall say, Of men; we fear the people; for all hold John as a prophet.

Do you know the Jewish history of baptism?

Much love!

 

[Godslittleservant]

I am seeing the affirmative statement you are calling attention to, that the apostles did signs and wonders, but is there a matching statement that others did not? I can't think of one, can you?

Nonetheless, I think you've got a point here, that what we know is that the Apostles received power, and laid hands on others that they would receive their ministries and abilities.

Leaving us again with Paul, whom we don't know for certain, right?

Good stuff!

Much love!

Yes so far I think we are in agreement