Beware Of Increasing Debt

[Hidden In Him]

Just curious, but why would you leave off posting the last part of the vision in your original post .......more so if it contained the above.........if something is to be given and weighed up, should it not be given as a whole ?
Rita

Good idea, though. At this point, the focus of the thread has been established.

Here's the vision in full:
A Prophetic Vision for the 21st Century

 

[Bobby Jo]

Who gave this prophecy? I have heard some prophesy quite the opposite. I wouldn't worry about China. The globalist have a set agenda for her and it doesn't include becoming the world's number 1 economy. In fact, their near monopoly on manufacturing has been exposed. The US and other western nations are developing backup plans that will siphon off a large amount of China's industry. The real fear that presents itself is the judgement of God on this nation for it's casual acceptance of homosexuality and the murder of the unborn.

Hi Huperetes,

I agree that MANY "prophesies" are simply men's imaginations, -- probably including the one posted. But at the same time, Bible Prophecy DOES declare the relative "decline" of the U.S., and where that decline ends is anyone's guess, but China will have their time in the limelight "for a little while".

And it may equally be important to appreciate that we're only some 12 months until the mark of the beast; and some 18 months until Global Thermonuclear War. So any Macro/Micro Economic expectations may be further out than our remaining time.

Bobby Jo

 

[Rita]

Just focusing in this thread on the parts most pertinent to what I am trying to communicate in the OP. I do the same thing with the dreams I post. I withhold parts that are not directly related to the subject at hand, so as to avoid clutter.

God bless, Rita, and thanks for your posts.

Really, I thought prophecy was about what God wants to communicate, not about what we choose to communicate.......what you are basically saying is that you are picking and choosing the message You want to convey.....I understand completely that we need to discern when we get insights, more so that we need to understand who the message is for, us or others , and if it is to be given to others, when and where it should be conveyed , but I have never heard of only part of a message being given ..........
I understand what my originals concerns were now....
.........I will leave it there as I am picking up that you do not want to be challenged and would rather this thread progress with what you want to discuss in the OP ....
Rita x

 

[Rita]

You posted the full prophecy while I was posting my last message.......
However I stand by what I said because you mentioned that you do that with dreams, presuming that’s with your interpretations as well- sorry but I simply do not believe that is right.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Thanks, and I will definitely take a look later. Need to log off for a bit.

God bless.

Almost to the end of this video is a newsletter Wilkerson put out to his supporters:
youtube david wilkerson prophecy pandemic - safesearch.norton.com Video Search Results

 

[Hidden In Him]

Really, I thought prophecy was about what God wants to communicate, not about what we choose to communicate.......what you are basically saying is that you are picking and choosing the message You want to convey...

No, Rita, I am conveying what the Spirit of the Lord is saying to the churches, one aspect of it at a time. If I were to give full commentary on that vision, it would take me a month.

I sense that you passed judgment on me before you even responded to this thread, and nothing that I could say at this point is going to change that.

God bless, and sorry we don't see eye to eye. Maybe we will again in the future some day.
Hidden

 

[Randy Kluth]

The American total debt is not over 100% of GDP. Income to the Treasury had been going up, meaning paying the national debt down could have been possible; but both Congresses went along with Trump and increased spending. If the total federal debt had been much lower, a one-time spending spree would have been possible to handle this crisis without increasing the debt to an unmanageable level.

State governments were also operating on the brink of bankruptcy. You can see that by how they demand the federal government pay for everything. Corporations had also heavily borrowed. They too lack a financial cushion to get through a few months of crisis without asking the federal government for help. Everyone is going broke; and the federal government is accumulating more power by going deeper and deeper into debt to bail everyone else out.

Maybe the US needs to figure out who is responsible for what when it comes to health care. The current model has failed. Having corporations and insurance companies calling the shots -- with the federal government bailing them out when they fail -- isn't working. Those companies made big bucks before the crisis; but they were completely unprepared for this.


I don't expect oil ever come back to what it had been. Trump's promises there won't happen. It did encourage new companies to start drilling. Some them are so heavily in debt, a bail out wouldn't save them. They couldn't repay a loan. I don't expect a collapse in the natural gas markets -- indeed I bought some stocks that do both oil and gas. They went down because of the fall in the price of oil; but I expect them to rebound nicely over time. They did rebound already, but I expect them to go up even more.

I don't know too much about industrial metals; but I know lots of them come from China. I don't understand enough about the supply chain to make a prediction there. What I can say, however, is that some key metals used in manufacturing of electronics come mostly from China. Trump needs to tread carefully then. He may want more manufacturing to return to the US; but China has the ability to cut off the exporting of some key elements.


Like it or not, I expect to see increases in the federal income tax after the election. It doesn't matter who wins the election. Those increases will be aimed mostly at people with higher income. The Democrats won't hesitate to do it; and I think Republicans will feel compelled to raise taxes in order to reduce the national debt. There were rumors before this virus crisis that Trump was planning to raise taxes after the election. You can see why he wouldn't want to before it.

The Fed is in a bad spot. If it raises interest rates, the interest on the national debt would be crushing. Most of the money coming into the Treasury would be spent on interest. If they don't raise rates, people will continue to see debt as easier than saving. Why save money if you get next to nothing as interest? Why should banks lend to people, taking risks, if the interest rate is so low?


Inflation would be one way to get rid of the national debt. Remember how Johnson spent like crazy on the war in Vietnam and the war on poverty? The Fed seemed to think raising interest rates and allowing inflation to take over was one way to lower the debt: You borrow dollars that worth something and repay them with dollars that are worth far less.

There are other factors that concern me. China's debt is also high. They have lots of loans out in the Third World too. Venezuela was too poor long ago to pay back what they owed the Chinese. How many other countries are going to default on loans to China, and what will China's response be? They look more and more aggressive lately. Will the Chinese military invade countries to seize companies that owe them, or will twisting arms be enough?

What will Russia do? They had enough cash reserves to take on Saudi Arabia in a game of bluff -- but how much longer will their cash last?

Saudi Arabia also looks unstable to me. There's been discontent there for years, mostly placated by freebies handed out to people to keep them from revolting. For the present, the coronavirus has hit immigrants workers there more than locals; but it is a real problem. I completely expect Iran (with its own desperate problems) to try to take advantage of it. Last year, they had attacks on oil fields from drones -- probably from rebels in Yemen backed by Iran. The drones were made in China. No one seems to care if China is selling drones that have the potential to disrupt the global oil supply.

I'm far from an expert, but I did benefit from witnessing the Quantitative Easing program after the 2008 US recession began. It told me, in essence, that a lot of money would be produced and injected into the economy fairly cheaply, causing property I held to inflate in value. If one holds a mortgage, or mortgages, this reduces the actual value of the payments, and increases the sales price of the properties, decreasing the value of what remains owed.

So we should watch what happens with these Federal bailout programs and stimulus packages. I do think it will cause more withdrawal to self-dependence, if you live in the US. And it will lead to a devaluation of our currency, and its accompanying trade power. It will also lead to a decrease in household wealth in the US, and increased financial stress.

The US has been blessed with natural resources, and there are still many good people here. But the corruption of both Christians and non-Christians has reached a ridiculous level. And so, the major danger is not lack of resources domestically. Rather, it is our angering God, which leads to the withholding of His blessings, and various calamities that whittle away our wealth.

I don't think oil, or any source of energy, will lose its value over the long term. When will we ever not need energy? Although both land and energy have been challenged in recent times, I don't think over the long term these things can ever lose value, assuming the conditions exist where they are needed.

 

[Rita]

No, I passed judgement on the fact that what you conveyed appeared to contradict what others have conveyed .....and I was equally responding to something that had been laid on my heart......you are not the only one with gifts .......I also was quite honest with you that I had concerns about your other thread.....which I still have .......you yourself admitted that you did not believe prophecy that relayed that the coronvirus would end - so would you not say that you have also passed judgement on other prophecy’s ......
As I said, the test of any prophecy is time ........
Rita

 

[Huperetes]

Hi Huperetes,
I agree that MANY "prophesies" are simply men's imaginations, -- probably including the one posted. But at the same time, Bible Prophecy DOES declare the relative "decline" of the U.S., and where that decline ends is anyone's guess, but China will have their time in the limelight "for a little while".

And it may equally be important to appreciate that we're only some 12 months until the mark of the beast; and some 18 months until Global Thermonuclear War. So any Macro/Micro Economic expectations may be further out than our remaining time.

Bobby Jo

Hi Bobby Jo,
I guess I would need to understand the prophetic reference you are assigning to the United States. What passages do you see as applying to the US? The only real reference I see as pertaining to China is as one of "kings of the east" that come after the 6th vial in Revelation. I define the references to "Babylon" as pertaining to America. As such there will be no total decline until ten
10 kings "make her desolate (Rev 17) and when God brings her into remembrance for judgement.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Almost to the end of this video is a newsletter Wilkerson put out to his supporters:
youtube david wilkerson prophecy pandemic - safesearch.norton.com Video Search Results

Thank you for this. The video in the article was especially helpful. I recall discussing this prophecy with someone (can't remember if it was here or elsewhere), and they ran me down for saying it bore marks of being a genuine Wilkerson prophecy, despite not being published in any known work. His argument was that people associated with Wilkerson's church could not verify it, so it was obviously false, and not something Wilkerson actually said. I tried explaining that they were likely defending his reputation against potential fraud in case it turned out to have not been authentic, seeing they themselves appeared not to have any first hand knowledge of it themselves. His reply was "Whatever floats your boat, but you are directly contradicting the testimony of people who were actually close to him." It would appear that they were simply not present when he spoke the prophecy, whereas the man in the video and anther prominent minister were.

So thanks. It confirms that the words were his, and it also apparently confirms that the rest of it is true also, which is interesting.

 

[Hidden In Him]

you are not the only one with gifts

I would never say such a thing.

you yourself admitted that you did not believe prophecy that relayed that the coronvirus would end

Of course it is going to end. I would need to see the exact prophecy to know precisely what I did and did not agree with. And as I stated, since I have received no direct prophecies regarding the issue, for all I know it could have ended at 11:35 this morning. My view at present on it is that we still have a major problem on our hands, but that is simply my opinion. It is not based on any prophecy.

so would you not say that you have also passed judgement on other prophecy’s ......

Yes I will pass judgment on prophecies if I regard them to be false. What is the harm in that? My apologies if I am rubbing some the wrong way sometimes, but as much as I try to avoid offending anyone, this is not about protecting people's feelings. Israel didn't like the things that were told to them either, but it did not stop the word of the Lord from going forth. And there were always prophets who were contradicting the message. It's just the way things work. God uses the situation to show who is approved and who is not, but as you say, they only find that out over time after history runs its course.

Rita, can we please drop this business? I would prefer answering people who are actually taking an interest in the topic I posted in the OP. Let's give it a rest. Maybe we can pick this up again at another time.

 

[Giuliano]

I'm far from an expert, but I did benefit from witnessing the Quantitative Easing program after the 2008 US recession began. It told me, in essence, that a lot of money would be produced and injected into the economy fairly cheaply, causing property I held to inflate in value. If one holds a mortgage, or mortgages, this reduces the actual value of the payments, and increases the sales price of the properties, decreasing the value of what remains owed.

I wonder how many people will want to move out of the big cities into smaller towns and rural areas. I'm expecting real estate values in the big cities to drop.

So we should watch what happens with these Federal bailout programs and stimulus packages. I do think it will cause more withdrawal to self-dependence, if you live in the US. And it will lead to a devaluation of our currency, and its accompanying trade power. It will also lead to a decrease in household wealth in the US, and increased financial stress.

It could be balanced by similar declines in China and Europe. Time will tell -- we'll have to watch as you say.

The US has been blessed with natural resources, and there are still many good people here. But the corruption of both Christians and non-Christians has reached a ridiculous level. And so, the major danger is not lack of resources domestically. Rather, it is our angering God, which leads to the withholding of His blessings, and various calamities that whittle away our wealth.

I don't think oil, or any source of energy, will lose its value over the long term. When will we ever not need energy? Although both land and energy have been challenged in recent times, I don't think over the long term these things can ever lose value, assuming the conditions exist where they are needed.

The demand for oil had been falling somewhat. The new natural gas reserves encouraged some people to switch from oil to gas. I also doubt the airline industry is going to make a comeback quick; and I expect to see fewer ships going from China to Europe and the US. Some people may be so happy with online chatting for business, they'll stop traveling as much. I always thought that the "free trade" between China and the rest of the world carried an environomental cost. Trump was also right, I think, to say some of those manufacturing jobs could be moved back to the US. I see that as smart economically and environmentally. Things may cost a little more in stores since American labor is more expensive than Chinese; but overall I see it as a good thing. I also look at China's manufacturing with disdain when we know they use slave labor in some places. It's just wrong in my book to be doing business with corporations in China who do that. How can American workers compete with slave labor in China?

 

[Rita]

yes, no problem, said all I wanted to say anyway xx

 

[Huperetes]

I would never say such a thing.
Rita, can we please drop this business? I would prefer answering people who are actually taking an interest in the topic I posted in the OP. Let's give it a rest. Maybe we can pick this up again at another time.

I read the full vision and found it interesting. I am just curious as to why you are applying it to the present situation? Like I said it's interesting ...but also ambiguous. There aren't really any markers that determine it must be for the present event.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I read the full vision and found it interesting. I am just curious as to why you are applying it to the present situation? Like I said it's interesting ...but also ambiguous. There aren't really any markers that determine it must be for the present event.

I agree it was ambiguous from the start, back in '73. Wilkerson predicted earthquakes that have never happened in proportion to what he predicted, although the earthquake in Japan did happen.

"In the aftermath of famine, floods, and earthquakes, mankind faces the threat of new epidemics sweeping through various underdeveloped countries. India and Pakistan face the threat of untold thousands dying from epidemics and starvation. Malnutrition, starvation, and all epidemics that accompany it will be a problem faced by a number of other nations as well. Food and relief supplies will not be adequate to combat these overwhelming problems, and many will die without help. Medical supplies will reach only a small proportion of those in critical need. This will prove to be mankind's biggest war. It will be a war of nature against man. And although God promises never to abandon mankind, it will appear as though He has done so."

I actually wrote Wilkerson out of concern that these predictions were sketchy, newspaper-driven "prophecies," designed for readership, more akin to horoscopes than biblical prophecies. I noted that a number of important prophecies had not yet been fulfilled.

However, I feel bad that I asked these questions, because when I look back on his prophecies today, they were spot on, despite the fact some important prophecies remain unfulfilled. I've literally experienced some of these prophecies, whether they had to do with stay at home kids who hate parents or media hatred and antichristian tv. The warning he directed at popular evangelists who compromised evangelism to win the world by becoming too much like them, and by dabbling in sexual sin, have come true to an amazing degree.

But the fact Wilkerson turned his attention to New York City shed a new kind of light on that city, just prior to what has happened now to that city during the pandemic. As I understand it, later in his ministry he began to be quite specific about his concern with divine judgment against New York City.

 

[lforrest]

Debt is a bondage, it should be subject to the jubilee. Assuming the jubilee is imminent then 49 years ago would correspond with the early 70's, a period of relatively lower debt compared to the surrounding years.

 

[Willie T]

Debt is a bondage, it should be subject to the jubilee. Assuming the jubilee is imminent then 49 years ago would correspond with the early 70's, a period of relatively lower debt.

But, "The Jubilee" has never once been honored.

 

[lforrest]

But, "The Jubilee" has never once been honored.

But surely God has not forgotten about it, whenever it is.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I read the full vision and found it interesting. I am just curious as to why you are applying it to the present situation? Like I said it's interesting ...but also ambiguous. There aren't really any markers that determine it must be for the present event.

Well I agree. There were no time markers. I believe the Lord does it that way because fulfillment often depends upon the decisions we make. But I think the time of grace is over now, based on what I am seeing taking place.

I would even go so far as to say it might be circumvented, even at this late hour. But it would take prayer on a massive scale, IMO.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I actually wrote Wilkerson out of concern that these predictions were sketchy, newspaper-driven "prophecies," designed for readership, more akin to horoscopes than biblical prophecies. I noted that a number of important prophecies had not yet been fulfilled.

Was JUST talking to a sister about this phenomenon, and the Lord actually does this quite often. He uses narrative as a form of communication, the Book of Revelation being a classic example.

He knows the value of telling a story in communicating prophetic messages, even when those messages are incredibly negative. Imagery sticks in the mind, and He will use dreams and visions in the end-times because a picture tells a thousand words.