Beware Of Increasing Debt

[marks]

The American total debt is not over 100% of GDP. Income to the Treasury had been going up, meaning paying the national debt down could have been possible; but both Congresses went along with Trump and increased spending. If the total federal debt had been much lower, a one-time spending spree would have been possible to handle this crisis without increasing the debt to an unmanageable level.

State governments were also operating on the brink of bankruptcy. You can see that by how they demand the federal government pay for everything. Corporations had also heavily borrowed. They too lack a financial cushion to get through a few months of crisis without asking the federal government for help. Everyone is going broke; and the federal government is accumulating more power by going deeper and deeper into debt to bail everyone else out.

Just to play "let's say . . ."

Let's say . . . that the world decides to blame China for the pandemic, and to send China the bill. We'd pretty much cancel our debt to China. Suddenly our national debt ratio is much better. Let's say that China responds by ceasing exports. After a readjustment, the US reaches full employment with the return of manufacturing. The controls of the pandemic rebound into a more libertarian cultural context, and business booms, as it tends to in those times.

This could go any number of ways.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Like it or not, I expect to see increases in the federal income tax after the election. It doesn't matter who wins the election. Those increases will be aimed mostly at people with higher income. The Democrats won't hesitate to do it; and I think Republicans will feel compelled to raise taxes in order to reduce the national debt. There were rumors before this virus crisis that Trump was planning to raise taxes after the election. You can see why he wouldn't want to before it.

There has to be some way to pay it all back! I expect this too.

 

[marks]

I have a more personal connection to Wilkerson, but won't get into that here. Let me just say that I have had the highest respect for his spiritual integrity.

Myself, no personal connection. I saw him speak a time or two. My MIL was saved during his preaching, I think. But from everything I know, a man who served the Lord in his generation.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Marks, we've been through 20 pages of this discussion before, remember? No need to do it again here, and allow it to completely detract from the issues posed in this thread.


And since it appears to be the direction you intend on going again with this line of questioning, I'm going to have to decline. If you wish to start another thread, do so. But don't hijack yet another thread just so you can turn it into "The Marks Show" again. That's irritating.

No need to try to marginalize or mischaracterize me.

 

[marks]

Marks, again this is something we have been through before. You are resorting to false accusation again, and you are a better man than that.

Continue making false accusations against me if you must, but I will trust that readers know I wouldn't teach something as ridiculous as that. But I will not go round and round with you again.

False accustions?

Point to it. Or put away such nonesense.

 

[marks]

marks said: ↑

I'd love to see you back this up!

I'd hate to think that you were trying to make the Apostles into false prophets, to give a pass on those who said things that didn't come about.

Marks, again this is something we have been through before. You are resorting to false accusation again, and you are a better man than that.

Continue making false accusations against me if you must, but I will trust that readers know I wouldn't teach something as ridiculous as that. But I will not go round and round with you again.

You wrote:

That is what I believe actually gets true prophets in trouble sometimes. Even they don't realize how distant the fulfillment will be, so they start setting guesstimations (sorry, had to create a word) on the timing of their fulfillment because of their certainty that they are from the Lord, only to end up being wrong on the timing, judging it as happening far sooner than it actually will. But if one looks closely, the apostles were making the same mistake in NT times. They were publicly proclaiming that the Lord's return was at hand because they fully believed in the prophecies going forth about His return. But they assumed it would be fulfilled in their lifetimes, and they were mistaken.

I'm questioning the fulfillments of your prophet's prophecies, and you respond with this. "Hey, the Lord's Apostles were mistaken too!"

Right.

And I'm making false accusations because I'm asking you a question, that you're not trying to make the Apostles into false prophets, comparing them, and not in prophecies they gave, you compare them to others, modern day, who did give prophecies, but not accurate.

Think about it for a moment.

 

[marks]

You posted the full prophecy while I was posting my last message.......
However I stand by what I said because you mentioned that you do that with dreams, presuming that’s with your interpretations as well- sorry but I simply do not believe that is right.

Hi Rita,

I put a lot of stock into how "up front" people are. The more cagey, the more it makes me wonder.

 

[marks]

Yes I will pass judgment on prophecies if I regard them to be false. What is the harm in that? My apologies if I am rubbing some the wrong way sometimes, but as much as I try to avoid offending anyone, this is not about protecting people's feelings.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Myself, no personal connection. I saw him speak a time or two. My MIL was saved during his preaching, I think. But from everything I know, a man who served the Lord in his generation.

Much love!

Yea, I didn't know him at all personally. But I'm from the Seattle area, and he used to minister in this area. Somehow he got linked with Linda Meisner, which is sad because she got linked with the Children of God cult. A brother of my best friend, at the time, went into that cult for years.

My brother and his wife were big fans of Dallas Holm, who performed with Wilkerson. After my brother and I had independently recommitted our lives to Christ, from out of a dead Lutheran experience, we attended a Wilkerson meeting, and went forward to show solidarity with fellows in our generation who were giving up the drug culture.

When I was stationed in Germany, about the only Christian book I could find was Wilkerson's "The Vision." And I had that in the back of my mind for years. When he warned about the need for greater holiness, I tried to follow some of his notions.

Later, when i began to question his visions as possibly sensationalistic and self-contrived, I talked to my cousin, who had babysat for his family (possibly his grandchildren?). That was when he was based in Lindale Texas. My cousin spoke glowingly of him, as a very humble, a very kind Christian man.

I wrote a letter to him, questioning his prophecies as "unbiblical," in terms of interpretation. But he answered that satisfactorily, explaining it was more "prophetic" than "theological." And in recent years I've learned that much that he said definitely had a prophetic application to our deviant culture. It also spoke to real problems in the Evangelical Church.

Also, I'm thinking that his prophecies may all come to pass! Many of them in the past certainly did!

More importantly, my own spiritual life felt stagnant for years, even though I've continued to serve the Lord. What has picked me up is a renewed interest in the prophetic element in God's word, which seemed to speak to my stagnation and to the direction I need to go in to be more effective. It has taken me right back to where Wilkerson was all along!

That's the "personal" background I referred to.

 

[marks]

turn it into "The Marks Show"

It's always interesting to me when others reveal how they think of things.

 

[marks]

When I was stationed in Germany, about the only Christian book I could find was Wilkerson's "The Vision." And I had that in the back of my mind for years. When he warned about the need for greater holiness, I tried to follow some of his notions.

Hi Randy,

This was a man who, I think, did the true work of God for many years. From what little I actually know about him, I have nothing but admiration. I feel certain he believed in the validity of his vision, and that he shared it as faithfully as he was able to. I don't doubt for a moment his commitment to Christ, or the faithfulness or fruitfulness of his life.

And to think what I do, to me, takes nothing away from the man. Only that his vision didn't happen as he said. We need to be careful, that's all.

Much love!

 

[Randy Kluth]

I have no problem with fellow believers trying to judge prophecies. That's what we are called to do, right or wrong. After hearing prophecy, the elders are to determine the truthfulness of the prophecy.

As to Wilkerson and Jackson, I admit that I think I judged their prophecies wrong. I initially accepted Wilkerson, but I later came to reject his later prophecy of US judgment by nuclear bombs, and the rejection of TV as an "idol." After all, I had seen Christian ministers travel about exposing Christian Rock as "evil." So it seemed to me Wilkerson was falling into that class of Christian that was critical and judgmental, playing the role of "prophet."

But over time, I kept coming back to thinking Wilkerson was right. His initial prophecies were very accurate, from the homosexual explosion to killer bees! But what really has convinced me lately is in looking back at his major burden, these reflected the heart and attitude of God towards our generation.

Wilkerson exposed the "pillow prophets" of "prosperity teaching." And he scolded ministers who were all about super growth and slick marketing for the Gospel, a kind of compromise and friendship with the world. Some ministers did change their ministries for the better after this prophecy. I saw his warning about sexual sin in the ministry literally come true with the Swaggart and Baker scandals, among others.

Some of the stranger prophecies of "sex drugs" and "killer bees" also came true, along with slight references to epidemics, which he said would become a major concern in time. The oil fields burning in the Middle East literally came true during the Iraq War. And some of his economic warnings had an immediate application. Some of my investments were made with this in mind.

Jackson's prophecies have the same flavor of dealing with immediate spiritual needs in the Church and having very literal prophecies come true. Who can make up prediction of maybe even 3 major hurricanes giving their exact statistics, in the very time frame he gave? After all, these prophecies are not just predictions for the sake of entertainment. They are very real warnings of judgment that require immediate action. They require immediate attention to warn people to repent of the corrupt culture, so as to mitigate these coming judgments.

 

[GTW27]

It's always interesting to me when others reveal how they think of things.

Blessings in Christ Jesus Marks. I think that it is good that you ask questions.

 

[Huperetes]

That's pretty funny! lol The guys in your church look and dress like rugged old prophets?

One of the guys had hair and beard just like the guy on the cover. Most of us wore jeans, polos and flip flops

My question in all seriousness is: Why would your men's meeting discuss these prophecies of the destruction of the US "with excitement?" Is it just the fact God is speaking to the Church? Is it that God is giving us instructions on how to clean things up? What?

I think the excitement was due more to an anticipation of the Lord's return than any destruction of NYC. it was surmised that such events would be the start of the tribulation so the pre-trib rapture folk were all set to fly and the post tribbers were all set to dig some holes (for bomb shelters)

 

[Heart2Soul]

A Field of Dreams or Nightmares? by Rick Joyner | MorningStar Prophetic Bulletins 2012[/QUOTE]


Rick Joyner: Prepare for a Spiritual Atomic-Like Explosion in 2020
Prophetic Insight

Commentsview(7)

FacebookEmailTwitterPinterest

(Photo by Jens Johnsson on Unsplash)
2018 was a remarkable and wonderful year. 2019 will continue be even more so. Every year from now on will be more so, but key elements of a great spiritual critical mass will begin to come together in the coming year. This will begin a spiritual atomic-like explosion in 2020. What are the elements that are coming together for this to happen?

A Time of Great Increase

The first will be a growing relationship and union with the Lord. Many have begun to experience the greatest times they have ever had in their relationship with the Lord. For those who seek Him, this will continually increase. There will also be an increasing unity and cooperation between individuals, ministries and movements. We are told in Ecclesiastes 4 that two are better than one, and a cord of three strands is not easily broken.

Therefore, wherever two or three begin to unite in purpose, there will be a multiplication of power and fruitfulness. The demonstration of this will cause a cascading affect that will draw others into the great movements of the future. This will release more definition and focus to the body of Christ than it has had in generations. This is the beginning of what, over the next decade, will eclipse the experiences of the first-century church.

As this is taking place in the spirit, the fracturing and divisions in the natural will also increase. The verses that I was given for this were Hebrews 12:25-29:

See that you do not refuse Him who is speaking. For if they did not escape when they refused Him who spoke on earth, much less shall we escape if we turn away from Him who speaks from heaven. At that time His voice shook the earth, but now He has given us a promise, saying, "Yet once more I will shake not only the earth but also heaven."And this statement, "Yet once more," signifies the removal of those things that can be shaken, things that are created, so that only those things that cannot be shaken will remain.

Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be moved, let us be gracious, by which we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. For our God is a consuming fire.

Following the Lord in all that we do is no longer just an option. It will be increasingly costly to disregard the word of the Lord or His guidance in our lives. This is because of His love for us, as was emphasized earlier in Hebrews 12. He must prepare His people for the time when not heeding His voice can be devastating or even fatal. So the discipline and consequences of this will increase in speed and degree. However, the fruit of obeying will likewise increase.

Standing on the Rock in a Time of Shaking

The national, cultural, religious and economic fault lines will all become increasingly unstable, and the tremors will grow throughout the world. Major shaking will break out where it was thought to be stable and secure. The right interpretation of the signs of the times is to disengage from those things that can be shaken and resolutely give ourselves to the kingdom that cannot be shaken. If we have built our lives on the rock, no worldly storm can bring us down. Those who have built their lives on the rock will begin to pull many from the shifting quicksands of this world.

Keeping Him first in our devotion and affection, seeking first His kingdom in every major decision, is the most important principle in how to build our lives on the Rock. Those who do this have nothing to fear from the times, but they will grow in righteousness, peace and joy. That is the nature of the kingdom.

A Time of Harvest and of Champions

We are now entering the harvest that is the end of the age. The greatest move of God that has ever been is now upon us. The greatest ingathering into the kingdom is just beginning. There has never been anything like it before, and there will not be anything like it again. These are the times that all the righteous of old and even the angels desired to see, and we are here to live in them.

The deep darkness that is now spreading over the people will only make the light appear that much brighter. Just as the greatest prophets arose during the greatest times of Israel's apostasy, great champions are about to be released throughout the world, preaching the Good News of the coming kingdom. The result will be that the nations will come to the light (see Isa. 60:1-5). Don't ever forget that the light will ultimately win; the truth will ultimately prevail; and we too will prevail if we walk in His light and His truth.

I was given a series of dreams at the end of 2018 in which I was shown that some lines have been crossed that will have significant consequences, especially for the United States. I will begin to share these in our Word for the Week (future articles). Some of these things may be shocking at first, but we must see them, be prepared for them, and understand that they are "inevitable, right and will be successful."

Rick Joyner is the founder and executive director of MorningStar Ministries and Heritage International Ministries and is the Senior Pastor of MorningStar Fellowship Church. He is the author of more than 40 books, including The Final Quest, A Prophetic History, and Church History. He is also the president of The OAK Initiative, an interdenominational movement that is mobilizing thousands of Christians to be engaged in the great issues of our times, being the salt and light that they are called to be. Rick and his wife, Julie, have five children: Anna, Aaryn, Amber, Ben and Sam.

This article originally appeared at elijahlist.com.


Rick Joyner prophesy for 2020.....

 

[Heart2Soul]

A Field of Dreams or Nightmares? by Rick Joyner | MorningStar Prophetic Bulletins 2012

Rick Joyner: Prepare for a Spiritual Atomic-Like Explosion in 2020
Prophetic Insight

Commentsview(7)

FacebookEmailTwitterPinterest

(Photo by Jens Johnsson on Unsplash)
2018 was a remarkable and wonderful year. 2019 will continue be even more so. Every year from now on will be more so, but key elements of a great spiritual critical mass will begin to come together in the coming year. This will begin a spiritual atomic-like explosion in 2020. What are the elements that are coming together for this to happen?

A Time of Great Increase

The first will be a growing relationship and union with the Lord. Many have begun to experience the greatest times they have ever had in their relationship with the Lord. For those who seek Him, this will continually increase. There will also be an increasing unity and cooperation between individuals, ministries and movements. We are told in Ecclesiastes 4 that two are better than one, and a cord of three strands is not easily broken.

Therefore, wherever two or three begin to unite in purpose, there will be a multiplication of power and fruitfulness. The demonstration of this will cause a cascading affect that will draw others into the great movements of the future. This will release more definition and focus to the body of Christ than it has had in generations. This is the beginning of what, over the next decade, will eclipse the experiences of the first-century church.

As this is taking place in the spirit, the fracturing and divisions in the natural will also increase. The verses that I was given for this were Hebrews 12:25-29:

See that you do not refuse Him who is speaking. For if they did not escape when they refused Him who spoke on earth, much less shall we escape if we turn away from Him who speaks from heaven. At that time His voice shook the earth, but now He has given us a promise, saying, "Yet once more I will shake not only the earth but also heaven."And this statement, "Yet once more," signifies the removal of those things that can be shaken, things that are created, so that only those things that cannot be shaken will remain.

Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be moved, let us be gracious, by which we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. For our God is a consuming fire.

Following the Lord in all that we do is no longer just an option. It will be increasingly costly to disregard the word of the Lord or His guidance in our lives. This is because of His love for us, as was emphasized earlier in Hebrews 12. He must prepare His people for the time when not heeding His voice can be devastating or even fatal. So the discipline and consequences of this will increase in speed and degree. However, the fruit of obeying will likewise increase.

Standing on the Rock in a Time of Shaking

The national, cultural, religious and economic fault lines will all become increasingly unstable, and the tremors will grow throughout the world. Major shaking will break out where it was thought to be stable and secure. The right interpretation of the signs of the times is to disengage from those things that can be shaken and resolutely give ourselves to the kingdom that cannot be shaken. If we have built our lives on the rock, no worldly storm can bring us down. Those who have built their lives on the rock will begin to pull many from the shifting quicksands of this world.

Keeping Him first in our devotion and affection, seeking first His kingdom in every major decision, is the most important principle in how to build our lives on the Rock. Those who do this have nothing to fear from the times, but they will grow in righteousness, peace and joy. That is the nature of the kingdom.

A Time of Harvest and of Champions

We are now entering the harvest that is the end of the age. The greatest move of God that has ever been is now upon us. The greatest ingathering into the kingdom is just beginning. There has never been anything like it before, and there will not be anything like it again. These are the times that all the righteous of old and even the angels desired to see, and we are here to live in them.

The deep darkness that is now spreading over the people will only make the light appear that much brighter. Just as the greatest prophets arose during the greatest times of Israel's apostasy, great champions are about to be released throughout the world, preaching the Good News of the coming kingdom. The result will be that the nations will come to the light (see Isa. 60:1-5). Don't ever forget that the light will ultimately win; the truth will ultimately prevail; and we too will prevail if we walk in His light and His truth.

I was given a series of dreams at the end of 2018 in which I was shown that some lines have been crossed that will have significant consequences, especially for the United States. I will begin to share these in our Word for the Week (future articles). Some of these things may be shocking at first, but we must see them, be prepared for them, and understand that they are "inevitable, right and will be successful."

Rick Joyner is the founder and executive director of MorningStar Ministries and Heritage International Ministries and is the Senior Pastor of MorningStar Fellowship Church. He is the author of more than 40 books, including The Final Quest, A Prophetic History, and Church History. He is also the president of The OAK Initiative, an interdenominational movement that is mobilizing thousands of Christians to be engaged in the great issues of our times, being the salt and light that they are called to be. Rick and his wife, Julie, have five children: Anna, Aaryn, Amber, Ben and Sam.

This article originally appeared at elijahlist.com.


Rick Joyner prophesy for 2020.....[/QUOTE]

I don't see Rick Joyner saying anything about increasing debt for 2020....perhaps it is for another time such as after Trump is no longer president.

 

[marks]

Jackson's prophecies have the same flavor of dealing with immediate spiritual needs in the Church and having very literal prophecies come true. Who can make up prediction of maybe even 3 major hurricanes giving their exact statistics, in the very time frame he gave? After all, these prophecies are not just predictions for the sake of entertainment. They are very real warnings of judgment that require immediate action. They require immediate attention to warn people to repent of the corrupt culture, so as to mitigate these coming judgments.

This is the sort of thing I look at the most, is when there are details, and an order to things.

Now, while I think I have a rather different idea of what God's judgment constitutes in the present day, that aside, (we could take that up in another thread if you like, could be an interesting discussion), I think that God would want His people to be able to recognize His prophets, so that we could benefit from their prophecies.

And God gives us guidelines to use. And many examples.

The Vision is a very interesting prophecy for me. Yes, he spoke of things that reflect very strongly on ways the culture has gone. It's not like nothing he said happened.

My cause to question is that he gave a timeline that would have had to been fulfilled in the coming 1-2 decades. And that things he prophesied seemed to me at odds with certain Scriptures. And that the fulfillments seem to be somewhat random to each other. Not like the narrative of The Vision.

I know that the OT prophets would frequently give prophecy that would be fulfilled in their generation, or the next one or two, and that these would authenticate the prophecies they gave that would not come to pass for 1000's of years.

For myself I have to wonder, how much was revelation from God, and how much was from a very insightful man, and how much mixture of these perhaps there was? I don't know. It seems to me to be impossible to certify, like we would a Biblical prophecy. And without that, then what?

Much love!

 

[marks]

This is the beginning of what, over the next decade, will eclipse the experiences of the first-century church.

Here we go. This is quantifiable. We have a record of the church. So in 10 years we'll know. Maybe just a few years to see a trend to tell us.

Now, I'd love to see something this specific for the next little while, something we could look at here, together, did it happen? Did it not?

Much love!

 

[Heart2Soul]

Here we go. This is quantifiable. We have a record of the church. So in 10 years we'll know. Maybe just a few years to see a trend to tell us.

Now, I'd love to see something this specific for the next little while, something we could look at here, together, did it happen? Did it not?

Much love!

Well it is Rick Joyner that he is referring to in his OP....
But this implies the opposite.

 

[marks]

Well it is Rick Joyner that he is referring to in his OP....
But this implies the opposite.

That's right!

I suppose I could blend the two, that in the midst of the fall of everything the church is polished and shiny. Is Rick Joyner dominionist?

Much love!

PS . . . is there a better word to use than "dominionist"? That the church will wax greater in all ways until the earth is prepared to receive Jesus?