Jim B
Well-Known Member
Then why does he teach his (not-yet-Christian) disciples to pray to "our father"? He doesn't say to pray to His father, but to "our father".
Bible alone question
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Then why does he teach his (not-yet-Christian) disciples to pray to "our father"? He doesn't say to pray to His father, but to "our father".
No king ever administers his own kingdom they always appoint ministers
Matt 17:27 Jesus identified peter with himself.
Matt 16:17 Peter alone received revelation from the Father
Lk 22:32 Peter to strengthen his brethren (the apostles)
Jn 21:17 feed my sheep
Peter exercises his authority over the apostles and the church!
Acts 1:15
Acts 3:4
Acts 5:5 5:10
Acts 10:44
Acts 15:7
ONLY TO PETER CHRIST SAID: THOU ART PETER AND UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILT MY CHURCH, AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT!Matt 16:18
Jn 21:17 feed my sheep
Peter exercises his authority over the apostles and the church!
Acts 1:15
Acts 3:4
Acts 5:5 5:10
Acts 10:44
Acts 15:7
ONLY TO PETER CHRIST SAID: THOU ART PETER AND UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILT MY CHURCH, AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT!Matt 16:18
Jim B
Well-Known Member
Again??? Why does the Bible refer to Jesus' brothers in several places? He had several brothers, so Mary was not a "perpetual virgin". I challenge you to show me anywhere in the Bible that says she was a perpetual virgin. Anywhere!
Jim B
Well-Known Member
Isaiah 22:20-24, “‘At that time I will summon my servant Eliakim, son of Hilkiah. [No Pope mentioned here!] I will put your robe on him, tie your belt around him, and transfer your authority to him. He will become a protector of the residents of Jerusalem and of the people of Judah. I will place the key to the house of David on his shoulder. When he opens the door, no one can close it; when he closes the door, no one can open it. I will fasten him like a peg into a solid place; he will bring honor and respect to his father’s family. 24 His father’s family will gain increasing prominence because of him, including the offspring and the offshoots. All the small containers, including the bowls and all the jars, will hang from this peg.’ "
No mention anywhere of the Pope! Show me anywhere in the Bible that it says "Pope Eliakim"! In fact, show me anywhere in the Bible where the word "Pope" appears!
Jim B
Well-Known Member
You didn't answer my question: Then why did Jesus teach his (not-yet-Christian) disciples to pray to "our father"?
where does it say biological brothers?
Just cos it says brothers does not mean biological brothers
Gen 13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdsmen and thy herdsmen; for we are Brothers.
Abraham and lot are uncle and nephew
the 12 sons of Jacob are all brothers but have four different mothers
Matthew 13:55
Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
Acts 4:36
And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus,
(Cannot be Mary’s child, Mary was of the tribe of Judah and the royal house of David the king!) Lk 1:32-33
Jim B
Well-Known Member
We have been through this many times before. The Bible says that Jesus had brothers! It doesn't matter how your Catholic doctrine twists the Bible. Either the Bible is true or it isn't!
BTW, the Bible says that Jesus was Mary's child. Where does it say that He was her biological child? It doesn't! (See how absurd that sounds!)
Behold
Well-Known Member
Your posts to me, do not show up in my "they have responded"...so, i cant tell you why..
Also, perhaps it is "thee" who does not realize that Joseph is not God? As He would have to be God, to be the literal father of Christ.
Behold
Well-Known Member
"Father, not my will but Thine be done".
= Jesus is not talking to Joseph
"Father, into thy hands i commend my Spirit".
= Jesus is not talking to Joseph.
pope is Italian for papa or father!
Isa 22:21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Call no man on earth "father".
= This is talking to the Born again, only.
Matthew 23:9
If you are not born again, then call anyone you like "father".
care to explain
Matt 23:9
Call no man Father?
Is this an absolute requirement?
Or is Our Savior condemning pride and spiritual pride of the Pharisees?
God calls men father!
Ex 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.
Jesus calls men father!
Jn 6:49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
Mary calls men father!
Lk 1:55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.
Peter calls men father!
Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
Acts 3:22 Moses said unto the fathers…
The stephen calls men father!
Acts 7 Stephen quotes the fathers over and over!
The Bible calls men father!
Luke 16:24
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Acts 3:13
The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
Jn 4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
Jesus does not rebuke her for calling men father!
Then there is spiritual fathers!
Spiritual Fathers have care for our souls!
Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:
Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.
Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you
1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.
That makes Peter, Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!
Isa 22 the administrator of the kingdom is called father, so the same for Peter, the apostles, and their successors!
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20
Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...
John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, so send in you. (The apostles) posses the same power mission and authority as Christ!
Peter, the apostles and their successors!
Eph 3: 14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
every family in heaven and on earth is named from the “Father.” We are fathers in the Father.
Acts 7:2; 22:1, 1 John 2:13 – elders of the Church are called “fathers.” Therefore, we should ask the question, “Why don’t Protestants call their pastors “father?”
1 Cor. 4:17 – Paul calls Bishop Timothy a beloved and faithful “child” in the Lord.
2 Cor. 12:14 – Paul describes his role as parent over his “children” the Corinthians.
Phil. 2:22 – Paul calls Timothy’s service to him as a son serves a “father.”
1 Thess. 2:11- Paul compares the Church elders’ ministry to the people like a father with his children.
1 Tim. 1:2,18; 2 Tim. 1:2-3 – Paul calls Timothy his true “child” in the faith and his son.
Titus 1:4 – Paul calls Titus his true “child” in a common faith. Priests are our spiritual fathers in the family of God.
Philemon 10 – Paul says he has become the “father” of Onesimus.
Heb. 12:7,9 – emphasizes our earthly “fathers.” But these are not just biological but also spiritual (the priests of the Church).
1 Peter 5:13 – Peter refers to himself as father by calling Mark his “son.”
1 John 2:1,1 John 2:13,14 – John calls the elders of the Church “fathers.”
Isa 22:21-22 the prime minister who administer the kingdom under the king in the line of david Lk 1:32-23 has the title father and hold the keys Matt 16:18
Jesus personally gave Peter the keys to His Kingdom. Jesus didn't personally say that to James did He? Why would you think James has what Jesus gave Peter?
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