BIBLE VERSIONS CAN AFFECT SALVATION

[Truther]

So, I am assuming that you are born again, and are concerned with sharing the gospel with the unsaved. How are you going to do this? Are you going to start with God loves everyone and wants to change their lives and make them happy, or are you going to show them whether they are good people or not on the basis of their compliance with the Ten Commandments.

God is going to judge us all on the basis of whether we keep the Ten Commandments or not. Those who are genuinely converted will be set free because Jesus has taken their penalty for sin on Himself.

But how is an unsaved person know that he is a sinner, and therefore not a good person and is in danger of the judgment unless you apply the Ten Commandments when you are showing him his sinfulness and what he needs to be saved from?

I use the 10 commandments etc., as a ministry of condemnation and death for sinners to be driven by them to Christ.

This is "sinner school".

If they graduate per Acts 2:38, they are qualified to leave sinner school and become led of the Spirit instead.

Only if folks are led of the Spirit, qualifies whether they are not under the Law per Gal 5:18.

This means, they are under the Law(including the 10) if not Spirit led.

Pre- New Testament Jews kept the 10 without the Holy Ghost.

 

[Paul Christensen]

I use the 10 commandments etc., as a ministry of condemnation and death for sinners to be driven by them to Christ.

This is "sinner school".

If they graduate per Acts 2:38, they are qualified to leave sinner school and become led of the Spirit instead.

Only if folks are led of the Spirit, qualifies whether they are not under the Law per Gal 5:18.

This means, they are under the Law(including the 10) if not Spirit led.

Pre- New Testament Jews kept the 10 without the Holy Ghost.

Sounds good. This is what the Ten Commandments are for - to show the unsaved that they are sinners, deserving of judgment and hell, making the gospel really good news for them. If we put the good news before the bad news, we get wishy washy converts who won't last long. But when a person is convicted of their sinfulness and becomes fearful of impending judgment then they are much more likely to listen when we give the good news. Fear is not a bad thing. It is our friend to warn us of danger. If you were standing at the door of an airplane 5,000 metres up, without a parachute, you would experience fear, because your safety is at risk. So you would put your parachute on right quick! Unsaved people are in great danger of judgment and hell, and they should be warned so that their resulting fear will cause them to listen more intently to the gospel and decide to "put on" Christ as they would put on a parachute before jumping from the aircraft.

 

[Truther]

Sounds good. This is what the Ten Commandments are for - to show the unsaved that they are sinners, deserving of judgment and hell, making the gospel really good news for them. If we put the good news before the bad news, we get wishy washy converts who won't last long. But when a person is convicted of their sinfulness and becomes fearful of impending judgment then they are much more likely to listen when we give the good news. Fear is not a bad thing. It is our friend to warn us of danger. If you were standing at the door of an airplane 5,000 metres up, without a parachute, you would experience fear, because your safety is at risk. So you would put your parachute on right quick! Unsaved people are in great danger of judgment and hell, and they should be warned so that their resulting fear will cause them to listen more intently to the gospel and decide to "put on" Christ as they would put on a parachute before jumping from the aircraft.

Excellent analogy!

 

[Bobby Jo]

... Now, which copies are your favorites again?

My "favorite" is the KJV because it has glaring DISTORTIONS of the Original Text, which I can criticize and you can't defend because it's indefensible!

Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

So did Harold Camping

Neither "Harold Camping" nor "Edgar C. Whisenant" are Scripture. Do you not like SCRIPTURE?

Bobby Jo

 

[Steve Owen]

Neither "Harold Camping" nor "Edgar C. Whisenant" are Scripture. Do you not like SCRIPTURE?

Bobby Jo

The Scripture is absolutely clear. "You do not know when the time is......Watch therefore, for yo do not know when the master of the house is coming" (Mark 13:33, 35). It is you who are allying yourself with Camping and all the other loonies who thought they were wiser than Christ.

 

[Bobby Jo]

The Scripture is absolutely clear. "You do not know when the time is......Watch therefore, for yo do not know when the master of the house is coming" (Mark 13:33, 35). It is you who are allying yourself with Camping and all the other loonies who thought they were wiser than Christ.

You quote what Jesus said what Jesus said to the crowds in front of HIM, and ignore what Paul instructed:

1 Thess. 5:2 For you yourselves know well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 When people say, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as travail comes upon a woman with child, and there will be no escape. 4 But you are not in darkness, brethren, for that day to surprise you like a thief.​

I wish all would treat Scripture like a buffet table, picking and choosing which verses they like and ignoring those which they don't like. -- Sounds like "christianity" to me!
Bobby Jo


To All,

Did you notice that @Steve Owen didn't ask WHERE IN SCRIPTURE DO WE FIND THE YEAR WHEN JESUS WILL RETURN?!?

Scoffers don't want to know because it just might disturb their "comfort zone", and we aren't allowed to contradict the lies which they've been taught.

Bobby Jo

 

[Paul Christensen]

The Scripture is absolutely clear. "You do not know when the time is......Watch therefore, for yo do not know when the master of the house is coming" (Mark 13:33, 35). It is you who are allying yourself with Camping and all the other loonies who thought they were wiser than Christ.

Who is the "you"?

 

[Preacher4Truth]

You quote what Jesus said what Jesus said to the crowds in front of HIM, and ignore what Paul instructed:

1 Thess. 5:2 For you yourselves know well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 When people say, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as travail comes upon a woman with child, and there will be no escape. 4 But you are not in darkness, brethren, for that day to surprise you like a thief.​

I wish all would treat Scripture like a buffet table, picking and choosing which verses they like and ignoring those which they don't like. -- Sounds like "christianity" to me!
Bobby Jo


To All,

Did you notice that @Steve Owen didn't ask WHERE IN SCRIPTURE DO WE FIND THE YEAR WHEN JESUS WILL RETURN?!?

Scoffers don't want to know because it just might disturb their "comfort zone", and we aren't allowed to contradict the lies which they've been taught.

Bobby Jo

@Steve Owen isn't a scoffer, he's a sound brother I respect.

Secondly not one thing in the text you've provided says a thing about knowing the day, hour, year of when he will return. Instead it plays into the fact that people will be going on ignorantly unconcerned about his return, and that the return will come when they are unprepared and don't expect it. The elect will not be surprised or overtaken by this event.

so cometh as a thief in the night; at an unawares, and the Lord himself in that day will so come, Re 3:3 respect is had not to the character of the thief, nor to the end of his coming; but to the manner of it, in the dark, indiscernibly, suddenly, and when not thought of and looked for; and such will be the coming of Christ, it will be sudden, and unknown before hand, and when least thought of and expected: and since the Thessalonians knew this full well, it was needless for the apostle to write about the time and season of it; which they were sensible of, could no more be known and fixed, than the coming of a thief into anyone of their houses. - Gill

 

[Steve Owen]

4 But you are not in darkness, brethren, for that day to surprise you like a thief.

The Thessalonians were not in darkness because they had the words of Christ to guide them and the words of Paul: 'For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.......therefore let us not sleep as others do, but watch and be sober,' and they followed the command of Paul and of the Lord Jesus and watched, because they did not know the time.

And no, I'm not interested in your crackpot theories, because I prefer to believe Paul and the Lord Jesus rather than you.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Who is the "you"?

You and everyone else, including Angels and the Son in his humanity.

“But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. - Matthew 24:36.

 

[Steve Owen]

Who is the "you"?

The "you" is everyone who reads His words in the Bible or hears them preached.

 

[Joseph77]

This is just one example highlighting the importance of how translations affect doctrine.

Do you follow translations (any of them), or doctine,
or
do you follow Jesus ?

The gentiles in Romans 2, who God says are justified, who do not even have a Bible,
what about them ?

 

[Joseph77]

The KJV does not save us, Christ does, but he is missing in some translations as in Acts 8:37

He is missing in a lot more minds, souls and hearts than not.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Do you follow translations (any of them), or doctine,
or
do you follow Jesus ?

The gentiles in Romans 2, who God says are justified, who do not even have a Bible,
what about them ?

By the time Paul wrote the book of Romans, his other letters would have been circulated around the churches. His letter to the Corinthians was an early one, and it was addressed to all Christians everywhere, so it would have been in general circulation.

But having said that, it is quite true that when Paul went and preached to the Greeks in Athens, he did not use the Jewish Scriptures at all because they did not have the Jewish world view. They had their own pagan world view. Therefore, Paul directed them to one of their own altars and explained who the "Unknown God" was first because he revealed to them that the "Unknown God" sent His Son to die on the cross for them and was resurrected from the dead. Some called him "a babbler" but a few believed the gospel and turned to Christ.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Do you follow translations (any of them), or doctine,
or
do you follow Jesus ?

The gentiles in Romans 2, who God says are justified, who do not even have a Bible,
what about them ?

The Bible is the only book that tells us about who Jesus is and what He has done for us. We need to follow the Jesus of the Bible. The alternative is to follow a jesus image in our imagination. We can see that many did follow an imaginary jesus through all the artworks depicting Jesus as a an effeminate looking European with a finely trimmed beard, and a hairdo that just came out of a salon, when He was actually a Middle Eastern Jew with a tough tradesman background.

Paul saw the real Jesus and he was struck blind. So did John just through a vision and he fell at His feet as if dead. This is why I don't believe those who said they had a visitation from Jesus, because for one thing, Jesus is at God's throne and will not appear until His second coming, and anyone seeing the real Jesus would be blinded and floored by His glory and power.

It is interesting that most who say that Jesus appeared to them, they describe Him as the European version. This is because the demonic disguise is expertly linked to the person's mental image of what he thinks Jesus looks like.

 

[Paul Christensen]

He is missing in a lot more minds, souls and hearts than not.

If I receive a leaflet giving me instructions about how to isolate myself in order to prevent being infected by corona virus, it is not the leaflet that will protect me, but following the instructions in it will. This is the same with the Bible, even the KJV version. The Bible doesn't save us, as you correctly say, but following the guidelines and instructions in it will.

 

[Joseph77]

Jesus is at God's throne and will not appear until His second coming

Who saw Him Standing , in Acts ? .... and today, who HEARS Him?

(sees Him? pondering that)

 

[Joseph77]

If I receive a leaflet giving me instructions about how to isolate myself in order to prevent being infected by corona virus, it is not the leaflet that will protect me, but following the instructions in it will. This is the same with the Bible, even the KJV version. The Bible doesn't save us, as you correctly say, but following the guidelines and instructions in it will.

Even people who got the toxic shots during the epidemic around 1902 suffered more , some or many died, from the shots.
i.e. "following orders" (they were military men)

The instructions on the leaflet won't help anyone. Not as much, that is, as the instructions , the true knowledge, the experiential knowledge, of those who learned what to do.

During the plague (I only saw this this last week) , groups of people (in the middle ages), were not harmed. (guess what - no drugs) . During the Panama Canal, the second engineer did what the first engineer could not do. (death from yellow fever and from malaria stopped the first one) .... the second one did what was right, and wiped out those things (guess what - no drugs) .

When doctors were told to wash their hands before attending pregnant woman and births, after they were at the morgue/with dead bodies, at first the doctors laughed and did not listen. Their death rate among new borns was very high, while the midwifes who knew what to do only lost about 1, or very few, new borns out of one hundred.
When the doctors finally started washing their hands, the number of live births who also did not die of infection increased dramatically. (Guess what - no drugs) .....

 

[Bobby Jo]

...not one thing in the text you've provided says a thing about knowing the day, hour, year of when he will return. ...

Ummmmm, ok, -- we can't know the "DAY or the HOUR". Did you want add: Week, Month, Season, Year, Decade, Score, Century, Daytona, & MIllennia?

Personally I'd LIKE to add and subtract to Scripture, but then I'd have to publish my own "Newest Testament", and it just doesn't seem very practical!

...
cometh as a thief in the night; at an unawares, and the Lord himself in that day will so come, Re 3:3 respect is had not to the character of the thief, nor to the end of his coming; but to the manner of it, in the dark, indiscernibly, suddenly, and when not thought of and looked for; and such will be the coming of Christ, it will be sudden, and unknown before hand, and when least thought of and expected: and since the Thessalonians knew this full well, it was needless for the apostle to write about the time and season of it; which they were sensible of, could no more be known and fixed, than the coming of a thief into anyone of their houses. - Gill

You parse what Scripture DOES NOT SAY. Perhaps SCRIPTURE is correct exactly as WRITTEN:

1 Thess 5:4 But you are not in darkness, brethren, for that day to surprise you like a thief.​

Maybe if you asked: How and Where SCRIPTURE provides the "YEAR", then we could have a discussion. But to arbitrarily discount what I assert defies the guidance to "try the spirits", -- and as implied in Deut. 18:22.

Bobby Jo