Blotted out of The Book Of Life?

[amadeus]

I've had my say.
The day you die, where will you be?
That's the question.
Do you know or not?

God knows! If I need to know as well and I am faithful, will He not tell me?
But then again I live by faith!

 

[Taken]

You make it complex and I sometimes do the same thing. Ultimately it may be complex, but we do not have to understand all of the details of that which is complex in God in order to please Him and to serve Him. Jesus explains simply what we need to do:

"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." Matt 11:28-30

There are a lot of details that may written between the lines and that are even written elsewhere in the scriptures, but the above verses or some others that I could mention or that you could mention give us all that we need... if our hearts are in the right place...

Another one is this:

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

If we make it complicated and insist that a person understand it all as I understand it or as you understand it, does that make it necessary for them to understand it? Do you understand my point?

I have gone through some of these details with you and with others here previously, but it comes back to God increasing a person... or not. I cannot do it and neither can you. Insisting against a person who either does not understand or who understands it differently will not change him unless God is in it. Even if our view on a point is correct, only God can change a person on it and even He is limited by the person. God gave each of the choice to choose our own way instead of His.

Gods Word is Straight and Clear....

Gods Word is Jesus, The Lord.
Gods Power is Christ.
It is By and Through Gods Word and Power a natural man can become Converted, Healed and Perfected.

However the complexity enters by the natural MIND-set of man, misunderstanding, mistrust and teaching of men.

I trust the Lord is Faithful, that I am Forgiven, that I am Converted, that I am Healed, that I am Perfected, that I am made Whole, By and Through Him, that those things were accomplished Once and Forever.

I am well aware others, do not believe what I Trust is True, and favor instead they Believe in Christ, in His Conversion, in His Healing, in His Perfecting, in His making one Whole....

Yet also favor believing, it is up to "them" to "Keep" proving their "Worthness" BY maintaining and KEEPING their Conversion in tact.

Personally, I do not Trust the ability of men.
I favor Trusting God and His Indwelling Power does MY KEEPING, and Trust He never Fails.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[amadeus]

Personally, I do not Trust the ability of men.
I favor Trusting God and His Indwelling Power does MY KEEPING, and Trust He never Fails.

God Bless,
Taken

Just like that OK, but when we dig deeper we may disagree, but even that is OK, if God sees our heart and approves.
Give God the glory!

 

[GodsGrace]

I appreciate our conversations, at times what we are trying to say may get lost in miscommunication - especially on the Internet.
From what I've gathered I think you and I can have some middle ground.

1) We both believe salvation is by God's grace - none of us deserve it.
2) Man is fallen in nature and is not good. We may disagree on how far man is gone but we agree no one is righteous on their own.
3) We must continue in our faith and continually seek God's guidance and strength.

1. Agree.
2. Agree.
3. Agree.

You're very astute.
We who love Jesus have a lot in common.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Just like that OK, but when we dig deeper we may disagree, but even that is OK, if God sees our heart and approves.
Give God the glory!

God tells us things about our salvation that you seem to ignore or not believe.
The more you talk, the more you baffle people.
I'm sure you are saved, probably a lot more than you are.
What is it about receiving salvation now that you don't understand or agree with?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Why did they take off the avatars?
Are they trying to get rid of all of us?
I am that close.

 

[amadeus]

God tells us things about our salvation that you seem to ignore or not believe.
The more you talk, the more you baffle people.
I'm sure you are saved, probably a lot more than you are.
What is it about receiving salvation now that you don't understand or agree with?

The finality is the thing. One has been, is and is going to be. I agree with that but I also agree with the possibility of overcoming every thing that stands between us and God, prior to having the dirt thrown on our faces when our course is at its end.

Is that also baffling? But... it is to be found in the words of Jesus as written in the scriptures, even if people regularly deny the possibility of becoming sinless before one's time here is finished.

Who does the overcoming? The Holy Spirit in us, if it is done at all.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

The finality is the thing. One has been, is and is going to be. I agree with that but I also agree with the possibility of overcoming every thing that stands between us and God, prior to having the dirt thrown on our faces when our course is at its end.

Is that also baffling? But... it is to be found in the words of Jesus as written in the scriptures, even if people regularly deny the possibility of becoming sinless before one's time here is finished.

Who does the overcoming? The Holy Spirit in us, if it is done at all.

Okay, you make sense and I agree.
But why do you sometimes won't admit salvation?
Are you afraid you might lose it?

 

[amadeus]

Okay, you make sense and I agree.
But why do you sometimes won't admit salvation?
Are you afraid you might lose it?

I may still at times say the words, 'I am saved', but rarely any more these days because people quickly jump to often erroneous conclusions about where I am. Read my post in your own new thread about denominations.

My primary fear is of myself! When I am walking close to God there is no reason however to fear. Do I ever not walk close to God?

 

[LC627]

1. Agree.
2. Agree.
3. Agree.

You're very astute.
We who love Jesus have a lot in common.

Grazie, We do have a lot in common. Whatever position we take, we are responsible for taking the Gospel to all people. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life.

 

[Heb 13:8]

We receive what God gives us. I already have what He has given me, but some of it, or even all of it, is only for my use until, if and when, I inherit. Until I do, if I do not really own a thing. Who does, as it all belongs to God?

"The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together." Rom 8:16-17

Even what we apparently possess [not necessarily own] is by faith rather than by knowledge, is it not?
When is it that we inherit? What is it that we inherit? How is it we know that we have already inherited?

When is it we move from believing to knowing? Should we be in too much a hurry to get there?

"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." John 20:29

Well, I've been in Christ for 13 years, and it didn't take me long once I began studying the Word to figure out that OSAS is truth.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

"Psalm 69:28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous."

The book of the living would have to pertain to people that are living. When read in context;

Psalm 69:24 Pour out thine indignation upon them, and let thy wrathful anger take hold of them. 25 Let their habitation be desolate; and let none dwell in their tents. 26 For they persecute him whom thou hast smitten; and they talk to the grief of those whom thou hast wounded. 27 Add iniquity unto their iniquity: and let them not come into thy righteousness. 28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.

To let their habitation be desolate and let none dwell in their tents after pouring out His wrath on them would remove them from the living.

“He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels” (Rev. 3:5).

The Book of life is different from the book of the living and in this verse, in the Greek word "ou mh" or "ou me" from which the English word "not" was derived from, it is a double negative as in the removal of a name can never happen.

i.e. ou - ou 3756 and mh - me 3361; a double negative strengthening the denial; not at all:--any more, at all, by any (no) means, neither, never, no (at all), in no case (wise), nor ever, not (at all, in any wise). Compare mh ouk - me ouk 3378.

http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/index2.htm

You can go to that link and scroll down on the left side to Revelations and click on 3 to get to that chapter and then the main page in front of you, scroll down to verse 5 and click on the Greek words ou mh in blue to see the definition.

“And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book” (Rev. 22:19).

You have to lean on Him to see the meaning of His words. It is not the name that is being taken out of the Book of Life, but his part out of the Book of life and thus his place out of the holy city. This ties in with God judging His House at the pre great trib rapture wherein those not found abiding in Him will become castaways whereas those that are abiding in Him when the Bridegroom comes will be received as vessels unto honor in His House to attend the Marriage Supper and have that place in the city as his home as promised by Jesus Christ.

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Anyway, the firstfruits of the resurrection will be like the angels that never die and have a place in the city of God.

Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

The devil is right now accusing our brethren day and night in Heaven but when the Bridegroom comes for the abiding bride of Christ, the devil and his angels will be cast out and the doors will be shut for the celebration at the Marriage Supper table as the newly inhabitants of the city of God will be rejoicing while woe is upon those remaining on the earth because the devil knows he has a short time left; hence the coming great tribulation.

Again I find myself questioning my view. Yes Rollo, wishy washy nancy just cannot make up her mind! Thought I'd save you that barb...lol
How does one reconcile the above verses to OSAS? I DO believe that if one has true saving grace, they will NOT walk away, or falter. So, if we are saved, how can one be blotted out of this magnificent book of Life? Can we become unsaved...I hate this stupid fence I find myself on allot lately

OSAS is still true. The book of the living is blotting out the unrepentant sinners in iniquity from the land of the living.

The Book of life has a double negative as a promise from God not to remove any name out of the Book of life.

Removing the saved believer's part out of the Book of life and out of the city is synonymous. If you recall Luke 14:15-24 where there were still seats at the table for all those invited but were making excuses not to attend, does kind of hint at how a saved believer can lose his place in the city of God.

If you read Psalm 89 at this link below;

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+89&version=KJV

You can see how those in that prophesied new covenant are still His and thus still saved when they are found in iniquity, but yet He is faithful in that they are still part of the seed, and although they are still His, He will visit them with stripes and His wrath in verses 29-37.

It is significant when comparing the very same stripes on "His servants" for not being ready when Jesus comes as they will get cut off in having their "part" with the unbelievers in Luke 12:40-49, thus referring to how his part was taken out of the city of God. Part = first inheritance.

So there is no loss of salvation, but a loss of the rewards of crowns and becoming a castaway and thus no longer having a part in the city of God to dwell in for not abiding in Him as His disciple; 1 Corinthians 9:24-27

Like the prodigal son that gave up his first inheritance for wild living and Esau that gave up his inheritance for a meal, they are still under His care just as the prodigal son is still son. The prodigal son can never get that first inheritance back but God will wipe the tears from the eyes of those coming out of the great tribulation in getting over the loss of that first fruit of the resurrection to serving the King of kings all over the world wherever their homes will be in raising up the coming generations during the millennium reign of Christ.

 

[Taken]

God tells us things about our salvation that you seem to ignore or not believe.
The more you talk, the more you baffle people.
I'm sure you are saved, probably a lot more than you are.
What is it about receiving salvation now that you don't understand or agree with?

Rollo ~ amadeus

It is the struggle Paul spoke of....
Between being still physically alive, the natural thoughts, wants, ideas our mind conjours up .... and yet already having given our flesh unto death, crucified with Christ... but that unseen TO our eyes.

Paul's OWN struggle with that, was the struggle would be relieved once a man had fulfilled his natural days of living and was "home" with the Lord.

Our Good News the Savior has come and Offered Salvation to be received NOW unto men still Living in their Natural flesh....IS the very thing (many) Jews 2,000 years ago and now cannot accept. And many Christians who Accept it, cannot accept it is accomplished once and forever and "Maintained" by the Power of God, despite what thoughts pops into their natural mind.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[amadeus]

Well, I've been in Christ for 13 years, and it didn't take me long once I began studying the Word to figure out that OSAS is truth.

I have been in Christ since 1976 and Jesus is the truth. Focusing too much on anything else, such as a particular doctrine would cause me to move out without Him. I cannot speak for you. Charity/love go with with Jesus.

One thing I do know, not simply believe, is that we must continue to grow in Him all the way to our end. To do otherwise is to stagnate and die.

"And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh." Ecc 12:12

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30

Give God the glory!

 

[Heb 13:8]

Like the prodigal son that gave up his first inheritance for wild living and Esau that gave up his inheritance for a meal, they are still under His care just as the prodigal son is still son. The prodigal son can never get that first inheritance back but God will wipe the tears from the eyes of those coming out of the great tribulation in getting over the loss of that first fruit of the resurrection to serving the King of kings all over the world wherever their homes will be in raising up the coming generations during the millennium reign of Christ.

We can't get our first inheritance back?

 

[Heb 13:8]

Focusing too much on anything else, such as a particular doctrine would cause me to move out without Him.

Well some preach OSAS to show false teachers the truth. It might be God's will for some.

 

[Enoch111]

1 thess 5:23 does not have pluses our equal signs nor does it sum up spirit, soul, body as a person.

Those mathematical signs are for people who don't accept what is clearly stated in Scripture. Plato and the Greek philosophers or Jewish rabbis have their own ideas. But the Holy Spirit has revealed God's truth in His Word. You concept is clearly at odds with Scripture, so you might at well accept that.

 

[Enoch111]

...there is no "fight the devil" or "fight evil" v in Scripture...

You can call it resisting the devil or fighting the devil, but it comes down to the same thing. This is a battle and there is spiritual warfare, and evil spirits are involved.

 

[Heart2Soul]

You can call it resisting the devil or fighting the devil, but it comes down to the same thing. This is a battle and there is spiritual warfare, and evil spirits are involved.

My Avatar is all about Ephesians 6 and fighting the enemy...which is....satan…..and so I agree with you....we are not battling flesh and blood but principalities, powers, rulers of darkness, spiritual wickedness...
Ephesians 6:12 King James Version (KJV)
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

 

[Enoch111]

Well some preach OSAS to show false teachers the truth.

I always speak of the eternal security of the believer (rather than OSAS), and if Gospel truth and Bible truth were properly presented no Christian would ever doubt that just as God saves sinners by His grace He GUARANTEES their perfection and glorification through Christ and the Holy Spirit (also by His grace).

The key to understanding this is that eternal life is God's GIFT to the one who repents and believes on Christ (Rom 6:23).

It is Satan who constantly raises doubts about the eternal security of believers, as though our salvation depends on us. But Scripture says that salvation is of the LORD, and that He Himself is our Salvation!

But the salvation of the righteous is of the LORD: he is their strength in the time of trouble. (Psalm 37:39)

Why was the Savior given the name "Yeshua" (Jesus)? Because it means "GOD IS [OUR] SALVATION".