Book of Daniel - Relevant time periods

[Jay Ross]

@CTK

Have you considered the functionality of the statue in Daniel 2.

The statue has five segments: -

1. The head
2. The Chest and stomach
3. The buttocks and the thighs
4. The Legs and
5. The Feet

Each segment of the statue has a singular purpose.

1. The head contains the CPU that controls the whole statue.
2. The Chest and the stomach provides the power source for the statue to move.
3. The buttocks and the thighs provides the means for the statue to move/walk.
4. The two feet separates the knee joints from the angle joints to provide the geometry that enables to walk.
5. The two feet provides the balancing stability necessary for the statue to remain upright.

When the rock, untouched by any human hands comes down from heaven, it strikes the feet of the statue and causes the statue to fall over because it has lost the stabilising functionality of the feet for it to remain upright.

The statue will be figuratively toppled in around 20 years' time.

Shalom

 

[Douggg]

As if there are no other ways one can be being prideful as well, such as, when being undeniably proved wrong, then not being able to at least admit you have been proved wrong.

So you are saying you are prideful ?

 

[Douggg]

This is a perfect example of why I need to move on.... of course 476 AD was not the time of the end, it was the time when papal Rome would soon come to the top of the 4th beast kingdom.... and he (little horn) would continue until the time of the end...

You had written that Pagan Rome was the fourth kingdom.

And when it ended, you wrote it was succeeded by Papal Rome.

So, if Pagan Rome was the fourth kingdom, and ended, and was succeeded by Papal Rome - then why isn't Papal Rome the fifth kingdom ?

----------------------------------
The little horn is time of the end - not continues until the time of the end.

 

[Douggg]

@CTK

Have you considered the functionality of the statue in Daniel 2.

The statue has five segments: -

1. The head
2. The Chest and stomach
3. The buttocks and the thighs
4. The Legs and
5. The Feet

Each segment of the statue has a singular purpose.

1. The head contains the CPU that controls the whole statue.
2. The Chest and the stomach provides the power source for the statue to move.
3. The buttocks and the thighs provides the means for the statue to move/walk.
4. The two feet separates the knee joints from the angle joints to provide the geometry that enables to walk.
5. The two feet provides the balancing stability necessary for the statue to remain upright.

When the rock, untouched by any human hands comes down from heaven, it strikes the feet of the statue and causes the statue to fall over because it has lost the stabilising functionality of the feet for it to remain upright.

The statue will be figuratively toppled in around 20 years' time.

Shalom

Jay, it is a statue, not a living human being.

 

[CTK]

@CTK

Have you considered the functionality of the statue in Daniel 2.

The statue has five segments: -

1. The head
2. The Chest and stomach
3. The buttocks and the thighs
4. The Legs and
5. The Feet

Each segment of the statue has a singular purpose.

1. The head contains the CPU that controls the whole statue.
2. The Chest and the stomach provides the power source for the statue to move.
3. The buttocks and the thighs provides the means for the statue to move/walk.
4. The two feet separates the knee joints from the angle joints to provide the geometry that enables to walk.
5. The two feet provides the balancing stability necessary for the statue to remain upright.

When the rock, untouched by any human hands comes down from heaven, it strikes the feet of the statue and causes the statue to fall over because it has lost the stabilising functionality of the feet for it to remain upright.

The statue will be figuratively toppled in around 20 years' time.

Shalom

First, that is such a great point to make. And God's has the ability to incorporate so much into His Words - found in Daniel and other books of course. It would probably take a chapter of its own to discuss this relationship that you brought forward. To touch on it (a very little bit) please consider the following:

1) Nebuchadnezzzar was purposefully given the head of the image. Coincidence? No. By the time we get to Chapter 4 we will discover that God had purposefully assigned him the head. Nebuchadnezzar ALWAYS viewed the world in a very physical manner. He was not a "theoretical" kind of fellow. He conducted himself through the 4 senses in his head. His mind, his eyes, his ears and his mouth. Meaning, he needed to feel, ear , see and understand things - all things physically not spritually, figuratively, etc. So, what does God do? He tries to get him to accept Him as his Lord and Savior through these 4 and only 4 senses.. In Chapter 1, he hears how intelligent and brilliant Daniel and his 3 companions are during his evaluation. He finds they are 10 times smarter.... but he does not attempt to find out why they are so bright... he simply accepts they are just brighter folks than any of his advisors... He never asks if their God had a part in making them this way.

2) In Chapter 2, God will enter his mind and give him the most amazing dream and Nebuchadnezzar will come to realize just how this God of Daniel can enter his mind and tell him the future for the next 2000 years. Who has the power to do that? Yet, he does not ask Daniel more about his God but thanks him for the dream and the interpretation and rewards DANIEL - not Daniel's God.

3) In Chapter 3, God pulls out all the stops. Now, God will literally reveal Himself to Nebuchadnezzar in the fiery furnance. He will now literally see the God of everything standing right in front of him.. What does he do? He calls out the 2 companions of Daniel to come out of the furnace but does NOT ask or call out the 4th being in the furnace to also come out (there is no way Nebuchadnezzar could possibly deal with such a powerful being - he could not understand this kind of power or a real God and call Him out to get to know Him). So, what does Nebuchadnezzar do? Once again, he brings everything back down to the physical world which is what he is only capable of understanding and rewards the 3 companions - not the 4th being in the furnace.

4) Well, by the end of the 3rd chapter, God has attempted to reveal Himself to Nebuchadnezzar in 3 of the 4 senses in his symbolic head - his ears, his mind, his eyes... but Nebuchadnezzar is no closer to God than in the beginning of Chapter 1. God has only 1 of the 4 senses left = his mouth or tongue. So, what does God do? He strips everything that is familiar to Nebuchadnezzar - his kingdom, his humanity, his riches, his comforts, his sense of peace, everthing has been stripped from him that made him.... him. He reduced Nebuchadnezzar to an animal like oxen in the field to experience humility.. God was going to take everything away from him UNTIL he would declare WITH HIS OWN MOUTH THAT THE GOD OF DANIEL WAS INDEED HIS GOD AND THERE ARE NO OTHERS. His final sense of his mouth was selected because God wanted to hear from his own mouth that declaration. Also, this is why Nebuchadnezzar wrote Chapter 4... because God wanted him to declare to the world that He was His God..... this declaration, whatever it was going to be HAD TO COME FROM THE MOUTH OF NEBUCHADNEZZAR. And of course, we all know that He indeed was humbled and given the heart of an ox = an ox gives and does not take. He would never again take from his people / kingdom.

5) Now, that is only the first kingdom where the "functionality" of the part of the image is used by God. But notice the second kingdom of arms and chest of silver. Here God uses a different approach.. You will notice that the second kingdom is the only kingdom (within the "interpretation sequence verses of 2:41-43) that Daniel does not record the type of metal. In verse 39 Daniel does not mention the type of metal but he does mentione that an inferior kingdom will come after Babylon. So why does he not record the silver in verse 39 - the action verse? Because silver is a soft metal and is worthless in using it in a military manner. Can not make any weapons with it.... worthless and this ties in exactly how Babylon will be conquered by the Medes- Persiand - they will literally not have to fire a shot to conquer what must have been one of the most powerful armies on the earth at the time behind the most inpenetrable fortress.. Who in the world would ever predict such a thing? Only God could put this together.... So, no metal is mentioned in 39.

6) Also in verse 39, Daniel records a third kingdom that is symbolized by bronze and the thighs and stomach of a man. This is also purposeful. Bronze was, at the time of Greece, the strongest metal to make weapons out of and Alexander would be given an "appetite" (stomach) for war. He craved wars and conflicts.... Further, he was known to use those symbolic thighs to "power through" all of his enemies. He was unstoppable.

7) And finally, the 4th kingdom of pagan Rome. Rome would use the strongest metal known to man at that time -iron. They would literally use those long legs to travel all over the world conquering every nation with ruthlessness. They would stomp over everyone without andy consideration for their well being... Nothing could stop the iron legs and feet from crushing their enemies.However, the Book of Daniel is a prophetic book, not a history book. God will select those kingdoms and those time periods as He desires to also incorporate His plan of restoration for the Jews and His city and also all of mankind within these 4 kingdoms. The 4 kingdoms are not the story, He is the story that runs through these 4 kingdoms. And He will reveal His plan of restoration as His people travel through these 4 kingdoms. So, who are the clay within the feet? It is His people that sit at the end of the Roman empire., They are symbolically encased in iron and ceramic clay. They are at the mercy of pagan Rome and they are expectiong their Messiah to soon arrive and declare literall / physical war against their oppressers - pagan Rome and destroy them. But Jesus did not come to destroy but to divide. Symbolically, He represents the Stone in 2;34 that will strike the feet of the image and break the iron and the clay into pieces. EVERYONE CLAIMS THAT 2:34 IS AN END TIME EVENT TO BE TREATED RIGHT ALONG SIDE 2:35. But there is a 2000 year space between these two verses.Verse 2:34 represents the coming of the Messiah where He will symbolically break apart the two elements in the feet (not destroy the image). This is the cross, and on the other side of the cross, God will select those Jews who would come to accept Him as their Messiah (pottery clay), as opposed to those Jews who would still reject Him (ceramic clay). This is part of what verses 2:41-43 are speaking about.

Sorry for being so long winded, and as I mentioned, this subject could take a whole chapter to discuss on its own - since we really have not even touched on the symbolism of Chapters 7 and 8.

Now, I am certain that at least one fellow will reject any part of the above and there may not even be any one else who might consider this interpretation, but I have been able to carry this forward into ALL the remaining chapters of Daniel and it provides a very consistent storyline where everything seems to fit like a glove - including Chapter 11.

 

[Jay Ross]

Jay, it is a statue, not a living human being.

Douggg, as usual you are missing the point of my post by deflection. It seems that you cannot get your laughing matter around a new concept and stubbornly hold onto your entrenched flawed ideas.

goodbye

 

[Jay Ross]

I have already shared my thoughts on the nations that are the fourth fifth segments of the Daniel 2 Statue prophecy, but it seems that you and Douggg want to hang onto the flawed understanding

Daniel saw what he saw from his vantage point of his observation. Both Isaiah and Jeremiah a very different picture to what was revealed to Daniel by God.

We cannot limit God's prophetic words to just one prophet's revelation. In Isaiah 13:19-22 we have the following prophetic utterance given many years before Daniel lived: -

Isaiah 13:19-22: -

19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms,​

The beauty of the Chaldeans' pride,​

Will be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. ​

20 It shall not be inhabited for a long period of time,​

Such that it will not be dwelt in for two ages;​

Nor will the Arabian pitch tents there,​

Nor will the shepherds make their sheepfolds there. ​

21 But wild beasts of the desert will lie there,​

And their houses will be full of owls;​

Ostriches will dwell there,​

And wild goats will caper there. ​

22 The hyenas will howl in their citadels,​

And jackals in their pleasant palaces.​

Her time is near to come,​

And her days will not be prolonged."​

On the other hand Jeremaih wrote his prophetic words concerning Babylon around 19 years after Daniel penned the Statue Prophecy in Daniel 2 and this is what Jeremiah penned: -

Jeremiah 50:35-40: -

35 "A sword is against the Chaldeans," says the Lord,​

"Against the inhabitants of Babylon,​

And against her princes and her wise men. ​

36 A sword is against the soothsayers, and they will be fools.​

A sword is against her mighty men, and they will be dismayed. ​

37 A sword is against their horses,​

Against their chariots,​

And against all the mixed peoples who are in her midst;​

And they will become like women.​

A sword is against her treasures, and they will be robbed. ​

38 A drought is against her waters, and they will be dried up.​

For it is the place of carved images,​

And they are insane with their idols. ​

​

39 "Therefore, the wild desert beasts shall dwell there with the jackals,​

And the ostriches shall dwell in it.​

Nor shall it be inhabited for a long period of time beyond our comprehension,​

It shall not be dwelt in for two ages.​

40 As God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah​

And their neighbours," says the Lord,​

"So, no one shall reside there,​

Nor son of man dwell in it. ​

From the above two passages we know that the Land of Babylon will be devastated and desolated for a period of two ages, which in my understanding has a duration of some 2,048 years.

What we need to determine is when Babylon was either devastated or desolated or when Babylon was remembered once more before God to receive His wrath for what they had done against Israel. In Revelation 16:17-21 we are given this information regarding the destiny of the Land of Babylon.

Revelation 16: 17-21: - Seventh Bowl: The Earth Utterly Shaken​

​

17 Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, "It is done!" 18 And there were noises and thunderings and lightnings; and there was great turmoil, such a mighty and great turmoil as had not occurred since men were on the earth. 19 Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath. 20 Then every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. 21 And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent. Men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, since that plague was exceedingly great.​

​

The Seventh Bowl Judgement unfolded in the 20th century, with Babylon remembered before God by both Britian and France in 1926 AD when Iraq was installed as a nation to have dominion over the land of Babylon. Since 1926 AD is when the two ages of the devastation and desolation of the nation having dominion over the Land of Babylon then the start of the desolation and devastation of the land of Babylon probably started around the year 120 BC. If this time period from around 120 BC to 1926 AD is correct, then the Roman Empire is not the fourth segment of the Statue Prophecy since the Roman Empire did not gain dominion over nations of the Eastern Mediterranean until around 60 BC, then the roman Empire is not the fourth segment of the Statue Prophecy of Daniel 2.

This also suggests to me that the Pope is not the False Prophet/little Horn or the AOD.

The five Entities that make up the five segments of the Statue Prophecy are: -

1. Babylon​

2. The Medes and the Persians​

3. The Greek Empires​

​

Two ages of Babylon being Devastated and desolated​

​

4. Iraq​

5. The Coalition of the Willing lead by the USA President which has exercised dominion over Iraq since 2003 AD.​

​

Shalom

 

[Douggg]

4. Iraq

5. The Coalition of the Willing lead by the USA President which has exercised dominion over Iraq since 2003 AD.

Jay,

4. Iraq - the legs of iron ?
5. The coalition of the willing over Irag - the feet of iron and clay ?

no, to both suggestions.

 

[Jay Ross]

Jay,

4. Iraq - the legs of iron ?
5. The coalition of the willing over Irag - the feet of iron and clay ?

no, to both suggestions.

Thanks to your unsolicited opinion. You have just demonstrated that you have no idea as to what the actual answer is.

Were the three scriptural passages irrelevant to what I have justify with them when I listed entities of the five statue segments.

 

[Phoneman777]

Well, I am openly against or vigorously opposed to "some" Church Tradition, it is when that tradition is of men and cannot be justified by the Bible. Unlike many, I don't place Church tradition upon a pedestal, because I have God's word already up there, and it doesn't share rule (Matthew 15:3). You see, since God is not speaking to us today verbally from the smoke on the mountain, or out of the burning Bush, or out of the mouth of an donkey, the scriptures alone (Sola Scriptura) are our direct authoritative word for interpretation from God. In other words, God's very own word is the only voice than can be the supreme interpreter of God's own word. Not Hal Lindsay, Gary Hunt, or even Jospehus. Because who better to get the interpretation from, than "the Author!" Sadly, that is a principle which most of the Church of our day seems oblivious to.

Genesis 40:8

• "And they said unto him, We have dreamed a dream, and there is no interpreter of it. And Joseph said unto them, Do not interpretations belong to God? tell me them, I pray you."

Yes, Interpretations belong to God. It's not, "let me get my book of interpretations by hal Lindsey," and it's not, "let me inquire of the stars what something means," and it's not, "let me see how the great Church men of renowned interpret this verse," but Interpretations belong to God. And the immutable law is, "if it didn't come from God's word, then it's not God's interpretation."

What most Christians believe is irrelevant. The words which man's wisdom teaches "the many" concerning eschatology is as foolishness to God. The natural man, as a beast, the carnal man living by the flesh, the wicked man is without sound judgment and doesn't understand the Spiritual.

1st Corinthians 2:13-16

• "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
• But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
• But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
• For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ[/i]."

I'm sure you've heard those verses before, but have you "heard" those verses before? The Spiritual man judgeth by that Spirit, but the natural man is like a beast, because he is evil and without the image of God, he is without sound judgment. That most believe something does not make something sound. Interpretation is not by committee, by popular teachings, by big world news, by consensus among the Church teachers, it's by the sound exegesis of God's word compared diligently "with" God's word.

And no, the Church cannot be right in this instance. God is not giving us a "literal" history lesson about Greece and Persia, but a "spiritual" history lesson about a far more sinister spiritual rule. Christ is the prince of peace, what kingdom does He rule? Likewise, Satan is the Prince of this world, thus what kingdom does he rule? Their rules are not from physical countries or empires, but from spiritual principalities. That's what many don't understand. Even though God has stated it in many diverse ways again and again and again. You still eschew the Spiritual nature of what God is speaking about.

Ephesians 6:12

• "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

Whether we like it or not, God is here telling us that our battle is not against the power of empires, of superpowers of today, it's not even physical, it's not political, it's not against physical nations, it's against a "spiritual principality, a spiritual power and spiritual wickedness." Everyone reads these things but few take it to heart.

Colossians 2:14-15

• "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
• And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it."

These Principalities and powers that Christ spoiled was not Rome, Common Union, it wasn't Greece or Persia on today's map, but it was spiritual "Egypt" and spiritual principalities and rulers of the darkness of this world. The Christian must take his mind off the nations of this world and think about a nation from above and just how it is being attacked. Take our eyes off this world and put them on Christ.

That is all I am saying for now.

The OP is spot on correct, and forms the basis for the prophetic timeline upon which the rise of the 6th century papal Antichrist took place. There is no room for any other interpretation, namely Jesuit "Way Behind" Preterism or Jesuit "Left Behind" Futurism.

 

[Phoneman777]

Two ages of Babylon being Devastated and desolated

What "two ages"? Isaiah says Babylon would be "overthrown" and mirror the fate of Sodom and Gomorrah which was never rebuilt and has remained desolate to this day. That came to pass all the way back in 6th century B.C. at the hands of MP.

Any subsequent mention of "Babylon" refers to "spiritual Babylon".

 

[face2face]

What "two ages"? Isaiah says Babylon would be "overthrown" and mirror the fate of Sodom and Gomorrah which was never rebuilt and has remained desolate to this day. That came to pass all the way back in 6th century B.C. at the hands of MP.

Any subsequent mention of "Babylon" refers to "spiritual Babylon".

Phoneman have you considered the banded root?

 

[Phoneman777]

Phoneman have you considered the banded root?

That was fulfilled with the return of Nebuchadnezzer to his throne?

 

[Jay Ross]

The OP is spot on correct, and forms the basis for the prophetic timeline upon which the rise of the 6th century papal Antichrist took place. There is no room for any other interpretation, namely Jesuit "Way Behind" Preterism or Jesuit "Left Behind" Futurism.

What "two ages"? Isaiah says Babylon would be "overthrown" and mirror the fate of Sodom and Gomorrah which was never rebuilt and has remained desolate to this day. That came to pass all the way back in 6th century B.C. at the hands of MP.

Any subsequent mention of "Babylon" refers to "spiritual Babylon".

Phoneman have you considered the banded root?

That was fulfilled with the return of Nebuchadnezzar to his throne?

It seems to me that God's prophetic words have been discarded above.

Both the Land of Babylon and of Israel were devasted and desolated for around the same period of time with their respective starting points being separated by around 120 years. In Rev 16:17-21 Babylon was remembered before God to receive God's cup of wrath for what Babylon has done to God's earthly hosts and God will begin gathering the Israelites to Himself in around 20 years' time.

But why let God's biblical facts get in the way of our own understanding of God's word.

The Anti-Christ is not the Pope of years ago. In fact, the Anti-Christ is not a human entity but is rather a wicked fallen heavenly host entity.

Satan has hidden himself well within the understanding of mistaken "christian" people.

Goodbye

 

[face2face]

That was fulfilled with the return of Nebuchadnezzer to his throne?

Go back and take a closer look.

Why banded?

 

[face2face]

This is a significant prophecy concerning our future times.

The religious teaching and influence of Babylon remained after its political demise, to spring forth into new life in apostate Christianity, symbolised in The Apocalypse as Babylon the Great (Rev 17:5)

The band being made of iron and brass has clear meaning for the avid Bible student!

F2F