Book of Daniel - Relevant time periods

[Douggg]

If Chapters 4 and 7 and 8 confirm 4 kingdoms,

Chapter 4 ? Did you mean Chapter 2 ?

Chapter 8 actually has in verses 20-23....

1. the kingdom of the Medes/Persians. verse 20
2. the kingdom of Greece. verse 21
3. 4. 5. 6. the kingdoms (4) of the breakup of Greek empire. verse 22
7. the kingdom of the transgressors (the little horn and the ten kings). verse 23

The Babylonian kingdom is not mentioned in Daniel 8.

 

[Jay Ross]

Jay, that the Roman Empire was the fourth kingdom is not a private theory, but a fact of history, common knowledge, i.e. everyone knows about the Roman Empire. And there is plenty of scriptural backing as Caesar is found 24 times in the New Testament.

Douggg, not all facts from history tie in with the scriptures. Often just because we know our historical record we should not insert that understanding over the Biblically recorded prophecy and claim that they are a perfect match.

I watched a video of some young people who decided to walk to a peak that they could see in the distant from their camp site and to get there they climbed three other peaks along the way to reach the peak that they had set out to reach. The reformation fathers only saw what they wanted to see on their journey to demonise the RCC when History has only just revealed in the last 100 years the fourth segment of the Daniel 2 prophecy. They hung their understanding off of the wrong historical facts because all of the applicable historical facts were not available to them 500 years ago.

Back during those times coastal people would light false fires to confuse ships passing in the night and cause the ships to steer into dangerous waters and become shipwrecked near the shoreline so that the people that lived along the coast could rob the ship of its valuable cargo. Satan is very apt at doing just this.

Goodbye Douggg

 

[Davidpt]

You keep repeating YOUR interpretations but do not have any Scripture supporting it.

I keep asking you to show me anything that says there is a 5th kingdom... and you keep coming back with nothing but your own theories .. If Chapters 4 and 7 and 8 confirm 4 kingdoms, why can you not accept His Word? Because you need to throw all the verses in Daniel that you can not understand how they apply to the Messiah during His arrival and do what so many have done - throw them 2000 years in the future and make some kind of end game...

What are you talking about? Are you sure that wasn't meant for @Douggg rather than me? Unless I'm mistaken, the post you are addressing is the first post I made in this thread, but even if it isn't, I'm not advocating for there being a 5th kingdom pertaining to the image to begin with, I'm disputing it. Yet there are 5 kingdoms mentioned in Daniel 2. 4 of them pertain to the image in question, the other one doesn't. IOW, the 5th kingdom is meaning the everlasting kingdom. The other 4 kingdoms are pertaining to and involve the image in question.

 

[CTK]

legs of iron - the Roman empire, fourth kingdom. Ended in 476 AD, look it up on the internet.

feet of iron and clay - end times kingdom, fifth kingdom end times version of the Roman Empire, the EU

in the days of the feet of iron and clay, fifth kingdom, the EU - the kingdom of God will become the ruling kingdom over all the nations of the earth.

No, there are only 4 kingdoms but the 4th kingdom of pagan Rome will be slain and its body destroyed (7:11) around 476 AD. Who could it possibly be the succeeds them? Who represents the "divided" kingdom?" The EU? The Scriptures are about Jesus and His arrival in the last week of the prophecy... do you really believe He is giving us EU prophecies? Is that why He came... Is that why Daniel is such an important Messianic and prophetic book? Or is it to speak to the restoration of Daniel's people and Daniel's city which is covered in the 70 weeks of years prophecy? The only true end times in Daniel is the latter part of Chapter 11 which discusses the "vile one" (little horn or papacy) who will succeed pagan Rome and continue until the end of time, and all of Chapter 12.

There are a few times in Daniel where the term "end times" or "latter times" is used... they do not automatically mean the end times. In Daniel the English word "vision" is used 9 times in Daniel - are they speaking of the same vision? Have you looked into it? Because the translators used the same English word many times in the Scriptures, it does not mean the same all the time..

The easiest issue in Chapter 2 is the identification of the 4 and only 4 kingdoms that come our of the earth or the sea...These 4 have been decided by God.... Chapter 7 and 8 specifically confim that yet you will not accept His Word (not my word or my interpretation). You simply insist the iron and clay feet are another kingdom ---where in God's Word does it say anything to support that? We can not even get beyond that simply fact of 4 kingdoms... And you certainly have no understanding of 41-43 which are indeed extremely complicated.

 

[CTK]

What are you talking about? Are you sure that wasn't meant for @Douggg rather than me? Unless I'm mistaken, the post you are addressing is the first post I made in this thread, but even if it isn't, I'm not advocating for there being a 5th kingdom pertaining to the image to begin with, I'm disputing it. Yet there are 5 kingdoms mentioned in Daniel 2. 4 of them pertain to the image in question, the other one doesn't. IOW, the 5th kingdom is meaning the everlasting kingdom. The other 4 kingdoms are pertaining to and involve the image in question.

Yes, so sorry David... I had to edit it... please forgive me.

 

[CTK]

If I were prideful, I would be constantly talking down to other posters. I don't do that.

I can tell that you are frustrated that I don't accept your interpretations in many cases. I suggest that you relieve your frustration by learning how to make timeline charts and put the timeframes and events related to them on a timeline. That activity you can do on your own. I use Corel Paintshop Pro to make my charts, which are essentially pictures.

Here is a list of end times timeframes given in the bible.




View attachment 49950

This is exactlty why you can not discuss Daniel -you have invested so much of your time and effort putting the above interpretation togther. You are not willing or capable of seeing anything but this invested interpretation... You cannot even entertain that there are 4 and only 4 kingdoms because that, in and of itself, would destroy this whole interpretation.

 

[Jay Ross]

And Caesar is not found in Daniel.

Actually, Daniel 9:27b points to Satan in that he is described as the one who makes desolate.

Daniel 9:27b: - ​

And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,​

Even until the final punishment, which is determined,​

Is poured out on the desolator."​

Satan is given many names/descriptions in the scriptures.

 

[Douggg]

The only true end times in Daniel is the latter part of Chapter 11 which discusses the "vile one" (little horn or papacy) who will succeed pagan Rome and continue until the end of time, and all of Chapter 12.

Is the Vatican, home of the pope, and Rome - not in the EU ?

The latter part of Chapter 11 that deals with the time of the end begins in Daniel 11:36, the king who magnifies himself about every god, in Daniel 11:37 "Neither will he regard the God of his fathers" - i.e. he will be a Jew, not the pope.

 

[Douggg]

This is exactlty why you can not discuss Daniel -you have invested so much of your time and effort putting the above interpretation togther. You are not willing or capable of seeing anything but this invested interpretation... You cannot even entertain that there are 4 and only 4 kingdoms because that, in and of itself, would destroy this whole interpretation.

discuss, a verb that means to talk about a subject with someone and tell each other your ideas or opinions.

 

[Douggg]

Actually, Daniel 9:27b points to Satan in that he is described as the one who makes desolate.

Daniel 9:27b: - ​

And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,​

Even until the final punishment, which is determined,​

Is poured out on the desolator."​

Satan is given many names/descriptions in the scriptures.

The three things that will make the temple desolate from the praise and worship of the One True God will be...

the presence of the beast king.
the presence of the false prophet
the presence of the statue image of the beast king - indwelt by Satan.

 

[CTK]

The Roman Empire ended in 476 AD.

The little horn person is time of the end. What kingdom will he come out of ?

Exactly. The 4th kingdom was pagan Rome at the time of the Messiah. They were slain and its body was destroyed (7:11), and as they were in steep decline, who was rising in power within Imperial Rome? Only one powerful force - The Christian church had spread throughout the empire... they saw exponential growth despite being terriibly persecuted by more than a few emporers. But then Constantine declared Christianity to be an accepted religion and after his death - some 30-50 years, it became the religion of the Roman Empire. Which made the church grow much quicker and stronger. There were four major christian centers in the empire - Rome, Antioch, Jerusalem and Alexandria. Each of the bishops of these 4 centers wanted to rule over the church. It had become so powerful.... but as you know, the winner was Rome. The bishop of Rome won the title to rule over all chrisitianity. He was given this power by Justinian and they never looked back. Now, since Imperial Rome was no longer, The bishop of Rome was now in charge of both secular and all christianity. This is the vile one in chapter 11 - who would become known as the pope of papal Rome.He is indeed the little horn ...

What kingdom did the little horn come out of ? Pagan Rome... The Jews who accepted Jesus as their Messiah went out thoughout the Empire preaching the Good News. First to the Jews and then to all the Gentiles. The Gentiles by the millions (perhaps) accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior.


Here in Chapter 7, is the mention of the coming UP out of the 4th kingdom.. This means the little horn or the early christians (Gentiles) were a very small group... after the cross, they were small but growing.

7:8 I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking [c]pompous words.


Now, look what happens to this little horn. In verse 19, Gabriel tells him this little horn has now COME UP TO THE TOP OF THE HEAD OF THE BEAST. Meaning, the christian church had surpassed pagan Rome - they had now become the head of the beast. The 4th beast of pagan Rome had been destroyed and the christian church continued to gain power and this bishop of Rome would not sit atop the beast....


19“Then I wished to know the truth about the fourth beast, which was different from all the others, exceedingly dreadful, with its teeth of iron and its nails of bronze, which devoured, broke in pieces, and trampled the residue with its feet; 20and the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn which came up, before which three fell, namely, that horn which had eyes and a mouth which spoke https://biblehub.com/nkjv/daniel/7.htm#footnotespompous words, whose appearance was greater than his fellows.


So there is no 5th kingdom, but there is definitely a "divided" kingdom mentioned in Chapter 2:41. I would have liked to discuss / not tell these interpretations with you but you are absolutley incapable of discussing any other interpretations that are different from the "Rorshach" like schedule you are so proud of in your #114 response

 

[Davidpt]

If I were prideful, I would be constantly talking down to other posters. I don't do that.

I can tell that you are frustrated that I don't accept your interpretations in many cases. I suggest that you relieve your frustration by learning how to make timeline charts and put the timeframes and events related to them on a timeline. That activity you can do on your own. I use Corel Paintshop Pro to make my charts, which are essentially pictures.

Here is a list of end times timeframes given in the bible.




View attachment 49950

In your mind then, the only way to be prideful is to talk down to other posters, but since you are not doing that, this equals you are not being prideful? As if there are no other ways one can be being prideful as well, such as, when being undeniably proved wrong, then not being able to at least admit you have been proved wrong. Especially when the text is already crystal clear to begin with, as it is in Daniel 2. 5 kingdoms involved, not 6.


Daniel 2:31 Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible.
32 This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,
33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.
34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.



Daniel 2:38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.
39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.
40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.
41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.


Let verses 31-34 help you interpret verses 38-39.

Notice in verses 32-34, this.

A) head was of fine gold

B) his breast and his arms of silver

C) his belly and his thighs of brass

D) His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay

Are you going to argue per B) and C), that there are 4 kingdoms rather than only 2? Are you going to argue that his breast equals 1 kingdom, his arms of silver equals another kingdom, his belly equals another kingdom, and his thighs of brass equals another kingdom? Thus 4 kingdoms rather than 2? Probably not, right? But why not? Isn't that how you are arguing D)?

That this--His legs of iron--equals 1 kingdom. And this---his feet part of iron and part of clay--equals another kingdom? Therefore, D) is pertaining to 2 kingdoms not 1 kingdom. But since you obviously wouldn't reason B) and C) in the same manner as you are reasoning D), why not simply admit, thus swallow your pride that Douggg is never wrong about anything, that you are not reasoning D) correctly, because if you were, you would be reasoning it in the same manner you are reasoning B) and C).

 

[CTK]

Chapter 4 ? Did you mean Chapter 2 ?

Chapter 8 actually has in verses 20-23....

1. the kingdom of the Medes/Persians. verse 20
2. the kingdom of Greece. verse 21
3. 4. 5. 6. the kingdoms (4) of the breakup of Greek empire. verse 22
7. the kingdom of the transgressors (the little horn and the ten kings). verse 23

The Babylonian kingdom is not mentioned in Daniel 8.

Yes, I meant chapter 2.

Verse 8:24 is ALL ABOUT THE "DIVIDED" KINGDOM OF PAPAL ROME.... Again, there are only 4 kingdoms and the 4th kingdom is indeed pagan Rome (at the time of the Messiah) but they are slain and its body is destroyed and will be succeeded by papal Rome. Greece and pagan Rome are long gone when they come to power and you can not change the structure of the 4 kingdoms established in chapter 2, confirmed in chapter 7. God does not move the goalposts.

Babylon is not mentioned for a very specific purpose,,, and if you also notice, pagan Rome is NOT discussed in chapter 8....

 

[Douggg]

What kingdom did the little horn come out of ? Pagan Rome..

If Pagan Rome (a term you use) ended in 476 AD, and the little horn person, differently, is time of the end - then it is not possible - as 476 AD was not time of the end.

The little horn person's identity has yet to be revealed specifically who that person is.

 

[CTK]

Actually, Daniel 9:27b points to Satan in that he is described as the one who makes desolate.

Daniel 9:27b: - ​

And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,​

Even until the final punishment, which is determined,​

Is poured out on the desolator."​

Satan is given many names/descriptions in the scriptures.

I hope you do not mind, but 27b, in my study (just my opinion) does not represent satin...However, I can assure you that you are in very good company with that interpretation... in fact, I would bet the house that 99:99 % of interpreters believe just as you do.....They have determined this speaks to the anti-christ who will come some 2000 years in the future.......

 

[Douggg]

Especially when the text is already crystal clear to begin with, as it is in Daniel 2. 5 kingdoms involved, not 6.

David, in Daniel 2, there are 5 kingdoms of men. And 1 kingdom of God.

 

[CTK]

Is the Vatican, home of the pope, and Rome - not in the EU ?

The latter part of Chapter 11 that deals with the time of the end begins in Daniel 11:36, the king who magnifies himself about every god, in Daniel 11:37 "Neither will he regard the God of his fathers" - i.e. he will be a Jew, not the pope.

This is not about the EU... it is about how God is going to restore and save mankind from being in eternity without Him. This is not a secular issue... He came to sacrifice Himself for our sins... and all you have to do is to look in chapters 7 and 8 and 11 to see what Daniel has recorded that the "little horn" would do against His people, His saints, His city, His laws and commands and even against Him - claiming to be God on earth.... The little horn has been preaching a different gospel since he took power over Imperial Rome.... "He will continue until the end of time until he is destroyed without human hands." He will "CONTINUE" UNTIL THE END" IT DOES NOT SAY HE WILL COME AT THE END AND THEN BE DESTROYED...

Yes, he will not regard the God of His Fathers... What does that mean? It means the Christian church began as a Jewish / Christian church. They believed in the Scriptures (OT) and the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. And Jesus was ONE with the Father... but as the church grew, it changed drastically from a Jewish/Christian church to a Gentile/ Christian church where it quickly brought in so many pagan traditions and worship idols and man made saints, and changed Gods 10 commandments... "THEY NO LONGER WORSHIPPED AS JESUS DID OR THE JEWS DID!" They began preaching a very different gosple... now, one could be saved but only if they belonged to the RCC.. Now the pope can forgive sin - did any Jewish patriach ever speak such a thing? Did any Jew - even the great ones like Abraham, David, Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah ever claim divinity? But the pope did and does?

 

[CTK]

In your mind then, the only way to be prideful is to talk down to other posters, but since you are not doing that, this equals you are not being prideful? As if there are no other ways one can be being prideful as well, such as, when being undeniably proved wrong, then not being able to at least admit you have been proved wrong. Especially when the text is already crystal clear to begin with, as it is in Daniel 2. 5 kingdoms involved, not 6.


Daniel 2:31 Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible.
32 This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,
33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.
34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.



Daniel 2:38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.
39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.
40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.
41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.


Let verses 31-34 help you interpret verses 38-39.

Notice in verses 32-34, this.

A) head was of fine gold

B) his breast and his arms of silver

C) his belly and his thighs of brass

D) His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay

Are you going to argue per B) and C), that there are 4 kingdoms rather than only 2? Are you going to argue that his breast equals 1 kingdom, his arms of silver equals another kingdom, his belly equals another kingdom, and his thighs of brass equals another kingdom? Thus 4 kingdoms rather than 2? Probably not, right? But why not? Isn't that how you are arguing D)?

That this--His legs of iron--equals 1 kingdom. And this---his feet part of iron and part of clay--equals another kingdom? Therefore, D) is pertaining to 2 kingdoms not 1 kingdom. But since you obviously wouldn't reason B) and C) in the same manner as you are reasoning D), why not simply admit, thus swallow your pride that Douggg is never wrong about anything, that you are not reasoning D) correctly, because if you were, you would be reasoning it in the same manner you are reasoning B) and C).

Dougg, you are so right... I am frustrated with you.. I was willing and able to DISCUSS

 

[CTK]

In your mind then, the only way to be prideful is to talk down to other posters, but since you are not doing that, this equals you are not being prideful? As if there are no other ways one can be being prideful as well, such as, when being undeniably proved wrong, then not being able to at least admit you have been proved wrong. Especially when the text is already crystal clear to begin with, as it is in Daniel 2. 5 kingdoms involved, not 6.


Daniel 2:31 Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible.
32 This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,
33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.
34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.



Daniel 2:38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.
39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.
40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.
41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.


Let verses 31-34 help you interpret verses 38-39.

Notice in verses 32-34, this.

A) head was of fine gold

B) his breast and his arms of silver

C) his belly and his thighs of brass

D) His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay

Are you going to argue per B) and C), that there are 4 kingdoms rather than only 2? Are you going to argue that his breast equals 1 kingdom, his arms of silver equals another kingdom, his belly equals another kingdom, and his thighs of brass equals another kingdom? Thus 4 kingdoms rather than 2? Probably not, right? But why not? Isn't that how you are arguing D)?

That this--His legs of iron--equals 1 kingdom. And this---his feet part of iron and part of clay--equals another kingdom? Therefore, D) is pertaining to 2 kingdoms not 1 kingdom. But since you obviously wouldn't reason B) and C) in the same manner as you are reasoning D), why not simply admit, thus swallow your pride that Douggg is never wrong about anything, that you are not reasoning D) correctly, because if you were, you would be reasoning it in the same manner you are reasoning B) and C).

Dougg, you are absolutely right... I am so frustrated with you.... I simply wanted to DISCUSS Chapter 2 -- and the first thing to discuss was the 4 kingdoms v. your claim of 5... It was you who made a childish remark to the effect "don't start on the papacy... or something to that effect," when we were no where near talking about Chapter 7...

I attempted to discuss why I believed there were 4 kingdoms and here your thoughts on why there ar 5 kingdoms... I did not get one answer that supported a 5th kingdom. I kept offereing you the verses in Chapter 7 and 8, so on... but you would not give them even 5 seconds of your time because you have such an emotional investment in your end time interpretations..

That is why I mentioned to you that I have to move on... my comments / opinions may not be right but I can point to the verses that speak directly to those interpretations... but you are incapable of taking a peek at them... so I am not gong to beat my head against a wall AND have you take cheap shots when I do not agree with your end time intepretation... Let's just move on...

 

[CTK]

If Pagan Rome (a term you use) ended in 476 AD, and the little horn person, differently, is time of the end - then it is not possible - as 476 AD was not time of the end.

The little horn person's identity has yet to be revealed specifically who that person is.

This is a perfect example of why I need to move on.... of course 476 AD was not the time of the end, it was the time when papal Rome would soon come to the top of the 4th beast kingdom.... and he (little horn) would continue until the time of the end...