Born Again or Christian? Is there a difference and what is your biblical support ?

[WalkInLight]

The issue is people do not understand what being born again _born spiritually or given life) and being filled with the spirit is.

They think it is some magic potion.

There is a difference between being born again (john 3: 16) and what being born again gives you, for the rest of your life.

This reminds me of discussions many years ago of people who felt though they believed in Jesus they had committed the unforgiveable sin against the Spirit so were actually lost.

And others who were very insecure over whether they were saved or not.

I am talking to a young believer at the moment who feels concerned with regard to which view of Jesus is correct, and can he chose the right one, across from Catholicism to Pentecostal churches. I am touched by the fact free will works in our hearts so we can choose our response, which is part of the test of both the sown seed and its outworking in our lives.

I realise anxiousness and its resolution is not a good way to found our lives in Christ.
My heart is driven by my love of Jesus and His way, and through this I find peace that passes understanding.

The fruit is resolution of anxiousness, but that is not the driving factor.
I begin to see until we mature in Christ and are honest about our true needs faith can become an answer to being insecure.
Ironically there is no peace in the worldly sense from following Jesus, because so many will oppose and miss-understand.

God bless you

 

[Ritajanice]

My opinion of this summary is...I think some think this to mean, that they have a Spirit that came from God, that if they are water baptised , they then are Born Again...that is what I believe some have been indoctrinated to believe my man/ woman...hence so much confusion.

When you ask them biblical questions that involve spiritual understanding/ knowledge, as that’s what a Born Again has been given by the Holy Spirit.....as they have been Born Again....they haven’t any idea what you are talking, can’t answer your questions then unfortunately they start throwing insults and accusing you of all sorts of stuff, yet can’t support anything they accuse you of with scripture...

Then the Holy Spirit showed me this...he also told us you shall know them by their fruits.

14The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15The spiritual man judges all things, but he himself is not subject to anyone’s judgment. 16“For who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to instruct Him?”d But we have the mind of Christ.

Hence Born Again verses a Christian.

Jesus offers the truth of intimate fellowship with the only true God. He was born into this world for this purpose: “And this is the way to have eternal life—to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, the one you sent to earth” (John 17:3, NLT). His kingdom presents the opportunity to know the truth that sets us free from sin and death (Romans 8:2; John 8:32). Only those who are born again can see Christ’s kingdom (John 3:3). And only those who are born of water and spirit can enter His kingdom (John 3:5).

 

[Ritajanice]

There is indeed a very childish game going on. You are the one playing it, pretending to have received a supernatural spiritual gift of divinely inspired revelation from God.

Back your words here up with scripture then?

As I’ve explained many, many times to you, you lack spiritual understanding, imo...you speak from the intellect as another on here also does.

Now, if you have anything to discuss about what it means to be Born Of The Spirit.get back to me.

It doesn’t mean what you personally believe it to mean, that you were born with a spirit, therefore all you must do is get water baptised as a 7 yr old...

Becoming Born Of The Spirit Is Divine revelation...God reveals we are Born Of The Spirit, via His Spirit.....I have posted reams and reams of scripture regarding the “ Living “ spiritual rebirth....to which you have no understanding of,imo.

So, my question to you is....how can you be Born Again as a 7 yr old without divine revelation?/heart knowledge? Spiritual knowledge? Spirit gives birth to spirit? ...

What’s Gods word saying here if it’s not spoken to us in the Spirit...the Living word of God?

How can you understand God’s word without his Spirit, who lives in our spirit?....we are Born Of The Spirit?

Our spirit is what’s Born Again.our spirit has been brought Alive?...if that’s not divine revelation....then instead of posting your usual intellectual knowledge.... tell us what it means...?then back up what your opinion is using scripture? ...not your intellectual knowledge of scripture, by going to seminary’s and reading his word,,,,,Gods word must be understood in the Spirit...not intellectual understanding...

That’s why we must be Born Again/ regenerated/ Spirit gives birth to spirit/ Quickened....that’s divine revelation from the Spirit of God?....something you lack in spiritual understanding.

 

[Ritajanice]

Do you seriously believe that God forms a spiritually dead spirit in us at birth? I would hope not.

God formed a spirit in you....

What does Gods word say about us being spiritually dead?

Spiritually dead from what?

Alienated from what?

We were once dead in tresspasses and sin...he quickened us....what did he quicken?..made us Alive with Christ, what did he make Alive in us?

Back up your opinion that you voice with scripture?

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◄ Ephesians 2 ►

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Berean Standard Bible Par ▾ Alive with Christ (Colossians 2:6–23) 1And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ways of this world and of the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience. 3All of us also lived among them at one time, fulfilling the cravings of our flesh and indulging its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature children of wrath. 4But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved! 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.a

 

[Ritajanice]

Understanding the Power of Faith Over Fear and Worry
Philippians 4:6–7 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which passes all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 5:6–7 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time: Casting all your care on him; for he cares for you.

John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give to you: not as the world gives, give I to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

Psalm 34:17–19 The righteous cry, and the LORD hears, and delivers them out of all their troubles. The LORD is near to them that are of a broken heart; and saves such as be of a contrite spirit. Many are the afflictions of the righteous: but the LORD delivers him out of them all.

Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait on the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

Deuteronomy 31:6 Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD your God, he it is that does go with you; he will not fail you, nor forsake you.

Psalm 112:6–8 Surely he shall not be moved for ever: the righteous shall be in everlasting remembrance. He shall not be afraid of evil tidings: his heart is fixed, trusting in the LORD. His heart is established, he shall not be afraid, until he see his desire on his enemies.

2 Timothy 1:7 For God has not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

Remembering the Lord Loves and Cares for You
Romans 8:31–32 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

Proverbs 3:5–6 Trust in the LORD with all your heart; and lean not to your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct your paths.

Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Isaiah 41:10 Fear you not; for I am with you: be not dismayed; for I am your God: I will strengthen you; yes, I will help you; yes, I will uphold you with the right hand of my righteousness.

Romans 5:8 But God commends his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Psalm 86:15 But you, O Lord, are a God full of compassion, and gracious, long suffering, and plenteous in mercy and truth.

Romans 8:38–39 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This reminds me of discussions many years ago of people who felt though they believed in Jesus they had committed the unforgiveable sin against the Spirit so were actually lost.

And others who were very insecure over whether they were saved or not.

I am talking to a young believer at the moment who feels concerned with regard to which view of Jesus is correct, and can he chose the right one, across from Catholicism to Pentecostal churches. I am touched by the fact free will works in our hearts so we can choose our response, which is part of the test of both the sown seed and its outworking in our lives.

I realise anxiousness and its resolution is not a good way to found our lives in Christ.
My heart is driven by my love of Jesus and His way, and through this I find peace that passes understanding.

The fruit is resolution of anxiousness, but that is not the driving factor.
I begin to see until we mature in Christ and are honest about our true needs faith can become an answer to being insecure.
Ironically there is no peace in the worldly sense from following Jesus, because so many will oppose and miss-understand.

God bless you

Satan wants to take our peace away and our Joy. He wants to Make us feel we are not forgivable. If he can achieve this goal, He has won a great victory, Because we have a lot of Christians walking around with doubt and fear. They are afraid to go to the throne of Grace, they are afraid to approach the "Abba Father" who has adopted us into their family. When we are struggling in an area. we are afraid to pray, afraid to even go to church, because of fear of judgment. I was this way myself growing up, and can still struggle at times. I do not think much of the church helps. because when a person is open and does what the word says to confess our sins to each other. Many churches judge, instead of come alongside (disciple) the person to help the person achieve victory.. The word says to confess so we may be healed, not confess so we may be judged. I remember growing up there were certain sins which if a person did them, it was said they could not have been saved, if they were they would not commit these grave sins. I just wonder of any of these people who walked away found Christ or found healing, since the church did not help them at all.

Another thing I see Satan do is take our focus off the word, and put it on one verse or one passage. I think of James 2 for those who demand we are saved by faith plus works. Acts 2 for those who think we must be baptized, We can see it in this very thread and others were someone is focusing on one verse (john 3: 8) And will not even look at the passage as a whole.. and when anyone does. She comes at them (its your opinion)

Its interesting. I am part of a Saturday morning men's prayer and study group. This group was started awhile ago. Some of these men are in my home group. Others are people we are reaching out to (we have a Catholic or two and a few who do not even go to church and are seeking with many Questions. Right now we are studying Hebrews. I get to lead this week. and my passage is if we sin willfully. (another one verse passage people focus on and can't see the whole picture)

Its amazing. I keep being told over and over, it is will full sin,, As apposed to willful sin that is being discussed here.. Yet I have LOGOS bible program with many many commentaries. and I looked online for multiple commentaries. And I can not find one commentary that says this is what is being spoken of. Every one of them from all kinds of backgrounds and churches, say this is talking about Apostasy, or rejection of Christ after we hear the word of truth. Which totally blew my mind. My thought was to look at all the different views. so I purposely looked for this willful sin vs accidental sin and could not find one commentator who taught this.. Which again goes to show the power of Satan, Get someone to look at one verse or passage. and their whole belief system is based on that one passage. and how dare anyone disagree with them, Instead of looking at the whole of scripture..


That is another reason people are misled and the fights which it causes between believers that turns the world away from us..

 

[Ritajanice]

In the same way that repentance is granted by God (Acts 11:18; 2 Tim. 2:25), faith is also a supernatural gift of God. Ephesians 2:8–9 affirms this: “By grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.”

 

[Ritajanice]

Brought from Death to Life​

Jesus was saying that every person without the outpoured Spirit from above is spiritually dead like the dry bones and cannot even see the Kingdom of God. In other words, a person without God’s Holy Spirit is purely “flesh” and has no spiritual eyes, ears or heart to see, hear and comprehend the message that Jesus came to bring. The Lord told Nicodemus unequivocally, “That which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit” (John 3:6). Only the Spirit of the living God can take dry bones, dead in trespasses and rebellion against God, and make them spiritually alive (Ephesians 2:1-5). The Spirit is like the wind that blows wherever he wishes (John 3:8), so we are absolutely dependent on the Holy Spirit to blow upon dead people to make them alive.

Absolute Importance of Being Born Again​

Scripture is very clear that the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit comes only through the hearing of the Gospel promises (Romans 10:17). Only in the Gospel does the Spirit move to open up a person’s eyes, ears and heart through the Father’s gift of faith (Ephesians 3:8-9). The result is what Paul terms “the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit” (Titus 3:5 NASB). Overall, a person must be radically born again by the wind of the Holy Spirit and raised up from the dead in their inner person, like the dry bones in Ezekiel’s vision. Without this radical transformation lived out until death, no one can enter the eternal Kingdom of God.

 

[TheHC]

All... those that are 'saved' in Christ's future Kingdom will have been "born again".

I’m not sure what you mean by “ “saved” in Christ’s future Kingdom” … if you mean ‘being part of it’, then I’d agree. But I have not been chosen to be ‘part’ of it as a king.

I hope to be with the “meek / mild-tempered” group who will live on Earth (Matthew 5:5), under Christ’s - and his co-ruler’s - rulership.
- Revelation 5:10

It’s quite an audacious statement for a person to claim they’re a king with Christ.

I think my previous post, which you quoted from, explains the kingship that will be bestowed on those born again, & who die faithful.

I’m happy enough if I’ll be considered “meek”, to live forever on this Earth. (Psalms 37:10,11,29)
See, everlasting life on this Earth, with its paradisaic condition, is what A&E lost for them & us as their descendants.
But it’s still our home, where God wants us to be. (Psalm 115:16; Isaiah 48:15) It’s a great place; just clean it up, and get rid of the wicked! - Revelation 11:18; 21:3,4.

 

[Davy]

I’m not sure what you mean by “ “saved” in Christ’s future Kingdom” … if you mean ‘being part of it’, then I’d agree. But I have not been chosen to be ‘part’ of it as a king.

I understand that not all believers on Jesus Christ may not serve in His Kingdom as kings and priests. Yet that is not up to us, that is only Christ's decision. But for His elect, He did promise they would reign with Him as priests and kings. So unless you fall away at the end, but keep His Word instead like "a chaste virgin" waiting on His return, then you can count on reigning with Him in His future Kingdom on earth.

 

[WalkInLight]

Satan wants to take our peace away and our Joy. He wants to Make us feel we are not forgivable. If he can achieve this goal, He has won a great victory, Because we have a lot of Christians walking around with doubt and fear. They are afraid to go to the throne of Grace, they are afraid to approach the "Abba Father" who has adopted us into their family. When we are struggling in an area. we are afraid to pray, afraid to even go to church, because of fear of judgment. I was this way myself growing up, and can still struggle at times. I do not think much of the church helps. because when a person is open and does what the word says to confess our sins to each other. Many churches judge, instead of come alongside (disciple) the person to help the person achieve victory.. The word says to confess so we may be healed, not confess so we may be judged. I remember growing up there were certain sins which if a person did them, it was said they could not have been saved, if they were they would not commit these grave sins. I just wonder of any of these people who walked away found Christ or found healing, since the church did not help them at all.

Another thing I see Satan do is take our focus off the word, and put it on one verse or one passage. I think of James 2 for those who demand we are saved by faith plus works. Acts 2 for those who think we must be baptized, We can see it in this very thread and others were someone is focusing on one verse (john 3: 8) And will not even look at the passage as a whole.. and when anyone does. She comes at them (its your opinion)

Its interesting. I am part of a Saturday morning men's prayer and study group. This group was started awhile ago. Some of these men are in my home group. Others are people we are reaching out to (we have a Catholic or two and a few who do not even go to church and are seeking with many Questions. Right now we are studying Hebrews. I get to lead this week. and my passage is if we sin willfully. (another one verse passage people focus on and can't see the whole picture)

Its amazing. I keep being told over and over, it is will full sin,, As apposed to willful sin that is being discussed here.. Yet I have LOGOS bible program with many many commentaries. and I looked online for multiple commentaries. And I can not find one commentary that says this is what is being spoken of. Every one of them from all kinds of backgrounds and churches, say this is talking about Apostasy, or rejection of Christ after we hear the word of truth. Which totally blew my mind. My thought was to look at all the different views. so I purposely looked for this willful sin vs accidental sin and could not find one commentator who taught this.. Which again goes to show the power of Satan, Get someone to look at one verse or passage. and their whole belief system is based on that one passage. and how dare anyone disagree with them, Instead of looking at the whole of scripture..


That is another reason people are misled and the fights which it causes between believers that turns the world away from us..

"Satan wants" is a big statement. Scripture tells us he wants to destroy us before God in a spiritual argument.
I suspect our sin is rooted in fear of rejection and self soothing. I talk with a number of brothers whose language is always to prove themselves to me rather than just share who they are knowing I accept them.

I was stunned a few days ago at how humble the Lord is to raise us up to be his friend and brother or sister. His actions prove His love, He does not have to emphasis or trumpet it. So when we focus on our failure, we often miss the why and how we respect ourselves and others. The Lord gives His people commands but is happy to work it through when we give our response. How often do we do this with others? Many family problems come about because fear dominates so a dictatorial situation is created which results in upset, and even to talk about it, seems to create upset, when everyone is happy to work things through.

So wilful sin is intending to do harm with no regard to the consequences. Sanctification is transforming us so our responses change as we grow, and rather than snap back at others we find another way which is assertive but caring. I think Hebrews is emphasising the difference between those is rebellion and those working through their worldly hurts, pains and trauma from before they met the Lord.

The more I learn about people, the deeper this hurt and pain often goes to the root foundation of who they are, and their earliest family experiences. The biggest miracle in anyones life is that they know the Lord and His love. Love is life, and God is love. For many seeing the world and suffering to see this comes from sinful free will is hard to take, but the Lord forces no one to follow Him or love Him.

This is why buying the Lords favour is absurd, or earning it, or being worthy of it. We can but receive and follow, no matter how weak and small at first, it is love working its way through us.

I now see why the Lord uses short statements and focuses on absolutes. You cannot lie about them, they are what they are.
God bless you