Born Again or Christian? Is there a difference and what is your biblical support ?

[JBO]

Gods word says we must be Born Again to see the Kingdom of God...he doesn’t say a Christian..

It doesn't say that one born again is not a Christian. That is just your opinion, and a bad one at that

Now, let’s discuss this scripture ?

Go ahead and discuss it. If necessary, I might respond to show you where you are wrong. But I have already shown you that you are wrong about 1 Corithians 2 in my reply #63

Berean Standard Bible

Par ▾

Paul’s Greeting to the Ephesians
(Acts 19:8–12; Revelation 2:1–7)
1Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,
To the saints in Ephesus,a the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Spiritual Blessings
(Romans 8:28–34)
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms. 4For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love 5He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6to the praise of His glorious grace, which He has freely given us in the Beloved One.
7In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8that He lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. 9And He has made known to us the mystery of His will according to His good pleasure, which He purposed in Christ 10as a plan for the fullness of time, to bring all things in heaven and on earth together in Christ.
11In Him we were also chosen as God’s own, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything by the counsel of His will, 12in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, would be for the praise of His glory.
13And in Him, having heard and believed the word of truth—the gospel of your salvation—you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is the pledge of our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession, to the praise of His glory.
Spiritual Wisdom
(1 Corinthians 2:6–16)
15For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, 16I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, 17that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in your knowledge of Him.
18I ask that the eyes of your heartb may be enlightened, so that you may know the hope of His calling, the riches of His glorious inheritance in the saints, 19and the surpassing greatness of His power to us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of His mighty strength, 20which He exerted in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly realms, 21far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in the present age but also in the one to come.
22And God put everything under His feet and made Him head over everything for the church, 23which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

 

[Ritajanice]

It doesn't say that one born again is not a Christian. That is just your opinion, and a bad one at that

Go ahead and discuss it. If necessary, I might respond to show you where you are wrong. But I have already shown you that you are wrong about 1 Corithians 2.

...it says we must be Born Again...therefore we go by Gods word....it doesn’t say we must be a Christian, therefore you speak your truth.which has no standing in Gods word...I speak Gods truth...none imo in which you are able to understand...that’s why you can never discuss on a spiritual level.

You always discuss by your human intellect to me, as we can see on this thread.nothing spiritual comes out of your mouth @JBO ....just human intellect....you can never discuss scripture....you just come up with remarks like we see here on your post to me.
Therefore Born Again verses Christian.imo.

 

[JBO]

...it says we must be Born Again...therefore we go by Gods word....it doesn’t say we must be a Christian, therefore you speak your truth.which has no standing in Gods word...I speak Gods truth...none imo in which you are able to understand...that’s why you can never discuss on a spiritual level.

You always discuss by your human intellect to me, as we can see on this thread.

Born Again verses Christian.

There is not even the words "born again" in those verses you wanted to discuss. So obviously it doesn't say we must be born again.

You always discuss by your human intellect to me, as we can see on this thread.

 

[Taken]

Born Again or Christian? Is there a difference and what is your biblical support ?

Born Again OR Christian…tricky to answer.

A Christian is a “GENTILE” Person who identifies with BELIEVING IN God “AND” Jesus IS the Christ.

A Messianic Jew is a Person of the “TRIBE of ISRAEL”, who identifies with BELIEVING IN God “AND” Jesus IS the Christ.

A Born Again Person can Identify themselves as A Christian or Messianic Jew.

A Believer IN God and Christ Jesus can identify themselves as A Christian or Messianic Jew.

A Believer in God, in Christ Jesus is CALLED….the Lord IS “WITH” them, and receives “Enlightenment” from the HOLY SPIRIT.

A Believer in God, in Christ Jesus CAN fall away, STOP believing, and is called: having
“FALLEN from Faith”.
They are no longer “WITH” the Lord.
The Lord is no longer “WITH” them.

A Believer in God, in Christ Jesus WHO HAS “MADE a TRUE COMMITMENT” to their Belief…Does so…BY:
“Calling on the Lord, Confessing their True Belief”.
** Confession OF True Belief, is expressly the Belief in a mans “natural spirit”, Called: Truth in his Heart.
** “IF” such Confession IS True…(and the Lord God DOES test/verify IF that Confession IS True)….THEN does the Lord Baptize that man ONCE and Forever, with the Holy Spirit of God, (which entails giving that man a new heart (called circumcision of the Heart), and then giving that person the SEED of God, which REBIRTHS, that mans natural spirit, to a spiritual spirit, (that can NEVER Die)….
And for the rest of that mans, “natural life”…
* The Spirit of God (Called the Spirit of Truth) SHALL ENTER into that mans reborn spirit, in his Heart….
* Gods Spirit SHALL remain WITH and IN ….ie WITHIN that man for the remainder of his natural life.
That person IS then called: Born Again.
(Spirit born of Gods SEED)
That person IS also called SAVED, because his SOUL, (is restored by the works of God), and that persons SOUL shall forever remain with Gods Breath of Life in his SOUL.
That man is Called: Christ “IN” him.
That man is Called; “IN” Christ, because God Spirit (Who IS Christ, is “IN” that person).
That man IS Called….as (Dead), because he agreed to be “bodily crucified” with Jesus.
That man IS Called….as ALIVE, because he lives IN Christ Jesus’ risen Body….until the day, his own BODY is risen up in Glory…ie without sin.

Depends on the Individual’s BELIEFS, and Word of Commitment, in How the Lord God shall respond to a Wiling Individual.

Some SHALL be SAVED, while ALIVE in their own Body, as described, they being crucified with Jesus.

Some SHALL Believe, (but Not Confess, Not become Born Again, during the physical life time)….YET “IF” they DO heartfully Believe on the DAY of their Physical DEATH…
THEY ALSO Shall be…
Forgiven, soul saved, spirit born again, and their body (in the first resurrection) raised up glorified.

It is ALL ABOUT….what the Lord God HAS Offered, and with the Consent of the individual, what Exactly the works the Lord God WILL do within that man.

Bottom Line…For ANY human person TO BE FOREVER “WITH” the Lord God, and SEE Him AS He IS….they themselves MUST become MADE IN Gods LIKENESS….
WHOLLY, WHOLE, HOLY…body, soul, spirit.

God has offered to every person, for them TO BE MADE WHOLE, according to His ORDER, His WAY…

Every individual person, has the OPTION to Freely accept or Freely reject Gods Offering.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Ritajanice]

There is not even the words "born again" in those verses you wanted to discuss. So obviously it doesn't say we must be born again.

You always discuss by your human intellect to me, as we can see on this thread.

So, my question to you is.

Why can’t you answer all the questions I ask you?

Why is there no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus?

How is a Born Again reconciled back to God?

Why must we be Born Again of imperishable seed, what is the importance of that?

What would have happened to us Born Agains if Jesus hadn’t died and was resurrected?

What is the seed of God?

How would we know God’s word is Alive and Active?

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death?

How have we been set free from sin and darkness @JBO ?....as God says we were once in?

These are all biblical questions? and are spoken in the Spirit?

 

[Ritajanice]

There is not even the words "born again" in those verses you wanted to discuss. So obviously it doesn't say we must be born again

The scripture I posted is speaking to a Born Again, Gods word speaks to us through his Spirit does it not?

That scripture is written in the Spirit therefore understood in the Spirit?

No, it doesn’t have Born Again in it.....why would it need to have....when the scripture that I posted is understood in the Spirit.

As all scripture is God breathed is it not?

I said we must be Born Again to understand God’s word as it’s his Living word...which is Spiritual?

So, how can anyone understand God’s word by the human intellect @JBO ? and without the Spirit?

 

[Lizbeth]

Someone else may have already mentioned it, but there are tares among the wheat. God will separate the tares from the wheat in the harvest at the end of the age.

 

[Ritajanice]

Someone else may have already mentioned it, but there are tares among the wheat. God will separate the tares from the wheat in the harvest at the end of the age.

Do you recognise the tares from the wheat.....?

The tares are the ones who graft themselves into the true vine....I believe those are the ones that are cut off and thrown in to the fire....whereas a Born Again is pruned to be more fruitful...as in, he works in our hearts to be more fruitful, making us into the image of Jesus via his Spirit.

Plus we were grafted into the vine ( Jesus) when we became Born Again of imperishable seed....therefore a Born Again can never be thrown into the fire/ lose their salvation, as we have been Born Again of imperishable/ incorruptible seed that liveth and abideth forever.

Tares are weeds that resemble wheat. In the parable, a wheat field had deliberately been polluted by an enemy who sowed the seeds of the weeds intermixed with the wheat. Only after the plants were partly grown did the problem become apparent. The landowner's servants asked if they should go in and pull out the tares.

 

[Pearl]

Do you recognise the tares from the wheat.....?

The tares are the ones who graft themselves into the true vine....I believe those are the ones that are cut off and thrown in to the fire....whereas a Born Again is pruned to be more fruitful...as in, he works in our hearts to be more fruitful, making us into the image of Jesus via his Spirit.

Plus we were grafted into the vine ( Jesus) when we became Born Again of imperishable seed....therefore a Born Again can never be thrown into the fire/ lose their salvation, as we have been Born Again of imperishable/ incorruptible seed that liveth and abideth forever.

Tares are weeds that resemble wheat. In the parable, a wheat field had deliberately been polluted by an enemy who sowed the seeds of the weeds intermixed with the wheat. Only after the plants were partly grown did the problem become apparent. The landowner's servants asked if they should go in and pull out the tares.

 

[Ritajanice]

View attachment 40548

Yes, the wheat produce a healthy crop....because of the soil they were planted in ( the heart)....Gods seed is the only seed that can take root and grow in the heart of his child......therefore you can also know them by their fruit....just my thoughts @Pearl

 

[Lizbeth]

Do you recognise the tares from the wheat.....?

The tares are the ones who graft themselves into the true vine....I believe those are the ones that are cut off and thrown in to the fire....whereas a Born Again is pruned to be more fruitful...as in, he works in our hearts to be more fruitful, making us into the image of Jesus via his Spirit.

Plus we were grafted into the vine ( Jesus) when we became Born Again of imperishable seed....therefore a Born Again can never be thrown into the fire/ lose their salvation, as we have been Born Again of imperishable/ incorruptible seed that liveth and abideth forever.

Tares are weeds that resemble wheat. In the parable, a wheat field had deliberately been polluted by an enemy who sowed the seeds of the weeds intermixed with the wheat. Only after the plants were partly grown did the problem become apparent. The landowner's servants asked if they should go in and pull out the tares.

Amen, they resemble the wheat. But yes, one way to discern them is by their fruits. I think scripture alludes to tares in a number of different ways. Sheeps in wolves clothing. Those who climb into the sheepfold by another way other than Christ who is the sheepgate. Those who are at the wedding feast without a wedding garment. Wandering stars (out of orbit), clouds without water, etc. Lots of references like that. Scripture also instructs us that there are those who we are not to even fellowship with or bid them Godspeed, so I guess they are tares too, unless they repent.

 

[JBO]

The scripture I posted is speaking to a Born Again, Gods word speaks to us through his Spirit does it not?

As you always say, prove that from Scripture.

 

[Ritajanice]

As you always say, prove that from Scripture.

I already have and still no answer to my questions.

Born Again verses a Christian.

We must be Born of the Spirit to see the Kingdom of God.....scripture proves it.

The wheat and the tares.

A Born Again understands the word in Spirit?

 

[JBO]

I already have and still no answer to my questions.

No you haven't. Born again is not even mentioned in those scriptures. That is just your opinion and that isn't worth much as far as I am concerned.

And the born again are Christians and the Christians are born again.

 

[Ritajanice]

As you always say, prove that from Scripture.

Here is scripture...what is God saying here?

14The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15The spiritual man judges all things, but he himself is not subject to anyone’s judgment. 16“For who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to instruct Him?”d But we have the mind of Christ.

 

[Ritajanice]

No you haven't. Born again is not even mentioned in those scriptures. That is just your opinion and that isn't worth much as far as I am concerned.

And the born again are Christians and the Christians are born again.

The scripture is spoken in the Spirit?

What does that mean?

And no.....God does not say a Christian is a Born Again.

Gods word says......We must be Born Again to see the Kingdom of God.

The word Christian is not in those words.

 

[JBO]

Here is scripture...what is God saying here?

14The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15The spiritual man judges all things, but he himself is not subject to anyone’s judgment. 16“For who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to instruct Him?”d But we have the mind of Christ.

He is saying that Paul and the apostles and prophets speak by divine revelation through the Holy Spirit.

 

[Ritajanice]

He is saying that Paul and the apostles and prophets speak by divine revelation through the Holy Spirit.

He is saying that the natural man, those without the Spirit, have no understanding of God’s word...because God’s words are spoken in the Spirit.

The natural man are those in darkness and sin and alienated from God?

They are not Born of the Spirit?

14The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God

 

[Pearl]

As you always say, prove that from Scripture.

So then you are not born again?

 

[FaithWillDo]

Born Again or Christian? Is there a difference and what is your biblical support ?

Born Again OR Christian…tricky to answer.

A Christian is a “GENTILE” Person who identifies with BELIEVING IN God “AND” Jesus IS the Christ.

A Messianic Jew is a Person of the “TRIBE of ISRAEL”, who identifies with BELIEVING IN God “AND” Jesus IS the Christ.

A Born Again Person can Identify themselves as A Christian or Messianic Jew.

A Believer IN God and Christ Jesus can identify themselves as A Christian or Messianic Jew.

A Believer in God, in Christ Jesus is CALLED….the Lord IS “WITH” them, and receives “Enlightenment” from the HOLY SPIRIT.

A Believer in God, in Christ Jesus CAN fall away, STOP believing, and is called: having
“FALLEN from Faith”.
They are no longer “WITH” the Lord.
The Lord is no longer “WITH” them.

A Believer in God, in Christ Jesus WHO HAS “MADE a TRUE COMMITMENT” to their Belief…Does so…BY:
“Calling on the Lord, Confessing their True Belief”.
** Confession OF True Belief, is expressly the Belief in a mans “natural spirit”, Called: Truth in his Heart.
** “IF” such Confession IS True…(and the Lord God DOES test/verify IF that Confession IS True)….THEN does the Lord Baptize that man ONCE and Forever, with the Holy Spirit of God, (which entails giving that man a new heart (called circumcision of the Heart), and then giving that person the SEED of God, which REBIRTHS, that mans natural spirit, to a spiritual spirit, (that can NEVER Die)….
And for the rest of that mans, “natural life”…
* The Spirit of God (Called the Spirit of Truth) SHALL ENTER into that mans reborn spirit, in his Heart….
* Gods Spirit SHALL remain WITH and IN ….ie WITHIN that man for the remainder of his natural life.
That person IS then called: Born Again.
(Spirit born of Gods SEED)
That person IS also called SAVED, because his SOUL, (is restored by the works of God), and that persons SOUL shall forever remain with Gods Breath of Life in his SOUL.
That man is Called: Christ “IN” him.
That man is Called; “IN” Christ, because God Spirit (Who IS Christ, is “IN” that person).
That man IS Called….as (Dead), because he agreed to be “bodily crucified” with Jesus.
That man IS Called….as ALIVE, because he lives IN Christ Jesus’ risen Body….until the day, his own BODY is risen up in Glory…ie without sin.

Depends on the Individual’s BELIEFS, and Word of Commitment, in How the Lord God shall respond to a Wiling Individual.

Some SHALL be SAVED, while ALIVE in their own Body, as described, they being crucified with Jesus.

Some SHALL Believe, (but Not Confess, Not become Born Again, during the physical life time)….YET “IF” they DO heartfully Believe on the DAY of their Physical DEATH…
THEY ALSO Shall be…
Forgiven, soul saved, spirit born again, and their body (in the first resurrection) raised up glorified.

It is ALL ABOUT….what the Lord God HAS Offered, and with the Consent of the individual, what Exactly the works the Lord God WILL do within that man.

Bottom Line…For ANY human person TO BE FOREVER “WITH” the Lord God, and SEE Him AS He IS….they themselves MUST become MADE IN Gods LIKENESS….
WHOLLY, WHOLE, HOLY…body, soul, spirit.

God has offered to every person, for them TO BE MADE WHOLE, according to His ORDER, His WAY…

Every individual person, has the OPTION to Freely accept or Freely reject Gods Offering.

Glory to God,
Taken

Dear Taken,
I wanted to respond to you because of this statement you made:
Every individual person, has the OPTION to Freely accept or Freely reject Gods Offering.

Scripture clearly contradicts your statement. Your statement is founded upon the works of man (the Old Covenant) rather than the works of Christ (the New Covenant). Unless Christ comes to a person (and this is without their asking or permission) and gives them the Early Rain of the Spirit, they will never freely accept God's offering.

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

Once a person has the Early Rain of the Spirit, they will ONLY accept Jesus as their Lord when presented with the Gospel. Without the free gift of the Spirit, they will only reject Him. This is true because of what these verses say:

Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The only way for the "natural man" to ever seek out and accept Jesus as Lord is AFTER Christ has come to them and has freely (because of His grace) given them the gift of the Holy Spirit.

As for the term "Christian", I see three categories of Christians in the world:

1). Those who grow up in the church and remain for various reasons. However, they don't have any faith in Christ or the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. They will usually leave the church as adults.

2). Those to whom Christ gives the Early Rain of the Spirit. With the Early Rain, they will have a "measure of faith" (small amount) and will have certain spiritual gifts. However, because the Early Rain of the Spirit is given in measure, the new believer will remain spiritually blind and carnally minded. Because of these spiritual weaknesses, they will quickly fall away and become apostate. This happens to all new believers shortly after Christ gives them the Early Rain of the Spirit. It is these apostate believers who make up the approx. 2,000 different church denominations/sects of Christianity in the world. The common thread these churches all have is that they teach "another gospel" which is based upon the works of man rather than the works of Christ.

3). Saved believers (born again) who have been converted because Christ has given them both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit. The Latter Rain is what the Apostles received on the Day of Pentecost and it is what Paul received after being blind and unable to eat or drink in Damascus for three days. The Latter Rain event is the Second Coming of Christ (I will "come again") when He brings salvation to those who have been chosen from the foundation of the world.

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

The "many" who are called are the believers who have only been given the Early Rain of the Spirit. From that group of "many" though, a "few" have been chosen for salvation before they die. They will be given both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit. They are said to be blessed by God. They are called the Elect, the First Fruits of Christ's harvest. They are saved (converted) SOLELY because they were chosen for this blessing by God and not because of any works they ever did:

Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Joe