Do you not believe in Messianic Jews?
Do you not believe that Muslims have a solid belief in God and follow the Koran the very same as we follow the Bible?
Born Again or Christian? Is there a difference and what is your biblical support ?
- Thread starter Rella ~ I am a woman
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Do you not believe that Muslims have a solid belief in God and follow the Koran the very same as we follow the Bible?
Rella, I can’t speak for others, I can only speak for self.
Belief for me in God, is not the same as being Born of the Spirit...my Son believes in God...he’s not Born of the Spirit of God...Born Again.
How can we believe without the Spirit?
Hazelelponi
Well-Known Member
He or she is saying that you should give a reason for the hope you have that people can understand... And which isn't basically saying "because I tried it and it worked for me."
^^^ Excellent sermon titled "Why you can believe the Bible" I see this as a must listen.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
@Ritajanice; @Red Baker; @JBO; @Scott Downey ;
I have brought this subject forward in a stand alone thread , as suggested by Rita.....from CALVINISM: The height of Spiritual depravity
as that one seemed to be off in a new direction from the OP.. and because Rita as we all have very individual specific ideas about this subject.... and each of the mentioned have contributed today.
While basic random thoughts I will kick things off with these. (Overly simplistic, but is a start.)
Is the word "Christian" found in the Bible? | Sojourn Church of Spearfish, SD
I asked the question, "Is the word Christian found in the Bible?" during the sermon a few weeks ago, and the answer I gave was, "Yes, two times." I realized asojournspearfish.com
Since we have these 3 examples of the word in the Holy Bible what do you believe a person who says they are Christian, or a Christian mean?
Born again shall be addressed whenever you want to put it in.
It is Jesus that frees us from sin indeed:
John 3:
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ ...
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
John 8:34-36
34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.
Hebrews 12:2
2 looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Romans 1:16-17
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”
Being born again means our old nature is dead, and we possess a clean nature as well as the power of the Holy Spirit making us dead to sin and alive to righteousness.
Romans 6:5-7 (Jesus died for us so that we can be renewed sinless)
5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.
Romans 8:1-9 (No longer sinning so no longer under the law.)
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
1 John 3:4-9 (The supernatural ability to be sinless of mortal sins unto death.)
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
1 John 5:18
We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.
2 Peter 1:2-11( After sinlessness for righteousness, Jesus works on us becoming holy and perfect through the fruit of the Spirit.)
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. 10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
John 15:1-4 (As you see, we are already clean when Jesus starts working on our fruit of the Spirit.)
“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
Watch out for doctrines of demons. Here is an important one to know about.
Revelation 22:11 We cannot wait until death to be free from sin. That will be too late, which is why those who believe sin is in our body believes a doctrine of demons.
11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”
Sorry, your words to me, I’m not understanding...I’ll pass on the vid...as there is much more to being Born of the Spirit than believing from ones own human understanding...we must be regenerated and receive the gift of God given faith, a manifestation of the Spirit..it manifests in the heart/ spirit of Gods child/ Born Again.
Hazelelponi
Well-Known Member
You have to reach peoples minds before you can reach anyone's heart. And believing is based in very real facts that cannot be simply written off...
You have a mind, and God intends it to be used.
Disagree....it’s the heart that needs to be Born Again not the mind.....when we’re Born of the Spirit, then it’s relayed to our mind....that’s the word of God.
I have the mind of Christ.
Zachariah.
Active Member
The concept of being born again is in fact the same thing. Christ is a word simply meaning anointed. It's a state of conciousness.
If you are born again you have achieved this level of conciousness. That's what it means.
Did God ever tell you the origin of how Jesus came to be and what His human genealogy reveals?
Never mind....
I know you have your mind closed. Perhaps God closed it for you IDK.
Rita be blessed. I am done with this subject
You’re not in a position of authority to say that my mind is closed...you voiced your opinion..now I’m going to voice mine...my mind is closed to your posts because imo they are full of confusion..
There is no spiritual understanding in anything that you say to me, it’s human understanding just being honest ,imo...you too be Blessed..
Spiritual understanding can only come from God @Rella and I can assure you, I’ve waited years and years for mine..imo and belief of course.
I’ve had to mature in the Spirit...and that can take years...I’m a slow learner and in my case it did take years...it’s the heart that we need to understand from @Rella ...not the intellect...again my thoughts, opinions and belief.
God is Spirit.therefore we understand in Spirit and truth of God’s word.
I’ve had to mature in the Spirit...and that can take years...I’m a slow learner and in my case it did take years...it’s the heart that we need to understand from @Rella ...not the intellect...again my thoughts, opinions and belief.
God is Spirit.therefore we understand in Spirit and truth of God’s word.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Jesus was teaching to Nicodemus, "you must be born again" to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. It is the simultaneous cleansing by Jesus and spiritual transformation and Baptism of the Holy Spirit. We are baptized ( immersed) into the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
This is the only "born again" experience.
Jews or Muslims or any other religion can coin the phrase, but is there a real transformation within them? No, because Christ is the narrow Gate, the Way, the Truth and the Life. He is the source of life itself. So others who do not receive, believe and follow Jesus are truly deceived.
The Father draws all men to Himself, through Christ. Many resist and reject Christ and follow a different path. Does that mean God has forsaken them or is not working in their lives? No. They may be a Hindu, Muslim, Jew for their entire life and get close to death and realize it was an empty pursuit, they had it it wrong, their focus was misguided. At this time, dormant seeds planted long ago that were buried, any remembrance of the Gospel, any truth about Christ that he formerly rejected, can be now delivered to them by the Holy Spirit. Life comes to them. GOD has there attention now, because there is not much time left. They abandon their entire life's false pursuit and receive Jesus. I am not saying this will happen to all, but it happened to both my parents _ who received Christ just before death _ who rejected the gospel all their lives and finally gave in.
My mother had a smorgasbord of her own beliefs: reincarnation, the Universal Energy Force, Astrology, etc. I chipped away at them for 30 years. As a young girl, she was put in an orphanage because her parents had TB. For five years, from age 9-14, she was taught by nuns and because of her rebelliousness, they were strict with her. She always would recount an incident when they asked her to do something and she defied them and they slapped her hands! "How horrible Mom", I'd say, then added, "But they didn't slap you enough!" She'd laugh. She denied all her life that Christ rose from the dead and that He died for our sins. She was rebellious ... yet God did not forsake her. The funny thing is she adopted many teachings of Christ and lived by them, often quoting the Bible: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you", "What you sow is what you reap", "it is better to give than to receive",etc. My father lived by them too! He was brought up as a Catholic, but at age 10, his father also got deathly sick with TB. He got on his knees and prayed to God for his father's life and God said no. So my Dad stopped believing, became a confessed atheist. I think he was more angry. Still, God worked in his life. He was a good man, gentle, patient, kind, loving. And towards the end of his life, God got his attention and opened up his eyes. He surrendered and once again _ 70 years later _ got on his knees and prayed. God said yes this time. So they both got born again late in life.
The point is, we don't know when that will happen to anyone. We don't know who is written in the Book of Life - likely even many of those on the wrong path, claiming they have God guiding them. Well, with some, it is a lifelong process. "By their fruit you will know them!"
We might be surprised when we see the billions in heaven ... God is merciful.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Thanks to the John Dewey established system of public education, and the Communist takeover of teaching universities!! The Communists said that as one of their goals, to takeover our public education system, dumbing down American children.
IDC
If I say I am born again who will know what I mean if I am less then specific.
You know.... excellent thoughts.
Wonder how difficult it would be to begin by coming to a general consensus of the meaning of core words?
Oh, sorry... LOL... I just realized how silly that sounds because that is an impossibility.
Among the quasi-experts on any thing biblical there are contentions of disagreement over the very basic
of things.
But is a pleasant idea....
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
You don't care? Well, maybe people won't care what you mean either? Unbelievers don't care how you identify yourself as. I think being in denial or having rejected th Gospel, they are not interested, indifferent. Heck, I don't care if you say you are born again or not. Honestly, I have never met anyone who claimed they were a "born again" Muslim or Jew, that is a Christian phrase, a quote from Jesus. Did Mohammed or Moses ever utter those words, " You must be born again"?
In the USA, and most western countries, most people would be familiar with that Christian phrase, although some don't understand it.
A case in point: I had a Catholic Aunt, a godly woman in her love for others but not so well versed in the Bible. She tried to insult my Protestant beliefs in the presence of my Mom by saying, "Maybe he is one of those "born agains"? I was there and heard it, but was reluctant to correct her since at the time I was a new Christian. She had been a Catholic all her life and I guess skipped over John 3:3.
As much as I hate what John Dewey did to our educational systems, I don't think the problem with different definitions of words in the Bible is with Dewey. The problem is the fundamental differences in theology. For example it is not a dictionary difference, even in the original language, in the meaning of the word "elect" but rather the theological difference assigned to that word. The same is true of words like foreknowledge, predestinate, calling, righteous, and works, to name just a few. And in the case of this present thread, it is not a dictionary meaning of Christian that is in contention, but rather a theological difference assigned to the word. Thus in so many cases, the definition and meaning of words is not the reason for different theological positions; rather it is the different theological positions that demand different definition and meaning of words critical to the theological positions.
And one can write books on the theological machinations that envelop the words translated from the Greek word "baptidzo"
Davy
Well-Known Member
My sister is an elementary school teacher, have taught for over 40 years. And she is appalled at how Leftists have taken over much of the education system, and the pushing of illiteracy, like the new math ought to be an example of that. I had to give my younger son my old Algebra textbook before he started to actually understand how to do Algebra. He didn't dare take it to school with him, out of fear of the school teachers. He's past 21 and still has problems with his math tables! Just ain't like how it was at all when I was in school.
So those who want to actually learn, and their family can't afford to send you to a good private school, discipline yourself. Go to the library on your own and read, study.
See Amos 8:11-13. That is what is causing the confusion today. And our Heavenly Father is Who is allowing it.
I really don't find understanding most of God's Word as that difficult. I am educated, but the main talent I claim from university was learning discipline in order to do my own research.
Different Bible translations are a problem today too. Some get away from the Traditional Greek text, and instead favor the Alexandria school, which was heavily influenced by Christian Gnosticism.
I have shifted my understanding of the Lord, because the Lord has changed me.
The bible is a kind of authority but only if you meet the maker.
The bible lays out Gods intent and His dealings with people and their reactions, good and bad.
The Pharisees thought through knowing the words they had found God, except they failed to obey and be transformed by loving and caring for others. No one in this life is free, they are either a slave to sin or a slave to righteousness. Believers have often thought doctrines matter above everything, but in truth Jesus's love flowing from us is walking in the Kingdom.
What surprised me is how foundational this is to knowing who knows Jesus and who is playing a different game.
Jesus talks about being cleansed and pure, being simple and honest, because the blessing He provides is enough.
Just listen to any gospel that adds more than this, you will find heresy. God bless you
Born again is a spiritual reality of turning from the mortal to the eternal.
It is a mystery, something that only occurs by Gods grace and will.
We barely understand our own consciousness.
The prophets talk about evil in the world and evil people being like chaff that will just be burnt up, while the righteous are like wheat, eternal, solid full of life.
Calvinist's emphasise the choice God makes and Armenian's emphasis our response to His love in our lives.
Both are true, because we are limited both in our vision and our ability to be objective being lost in sin and purchased by Christs blood.
Paul went so far as to say he could not judge other believers, but rather just see the blessing God brings through witness and love in Gods people. A person when a baby is barely aware of what they are and the choices they can make. As we mature we begin to see both our strengths, skills and limitations. The mystery is we love Jesus and are bonded to Him in heart word and deed. So is there such a thing as separation other that of sinners and the Lord. In Christ we are His body, His people, His will and His love working out.
I see more clearly in our minds we love control and understanding, but in meekness and our bowing before the King, we are servants, sinners cleansed and made friends, so we have given up control and our understanding is we flow from the Lord to those we meet and share with.
How can Jesus's words be eternal? Because they reflect the eternal realities of who we are and who the Lord is and these truths are eternal.
We think heaven is so different from our walk with Jesus, but Jesus came to show His disciples, our walk with Him is eternal and the eternal reality. Praise the Lord. God bless you
Paul, in that chapter is describing and defending his and the other apostles and prophets divine inspiration and revelation by the Holy Spirit. When He says "we have the mind of Christ", he is talking about himself and the other apostles and prophets who are divinely inspired. He is not talking about you, me or anyone else today. You have not been divinely inspired. Being born again does not ascribe divine inspiration and does not yield divinely inspired revelation. You do not have the mind of Christ.
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