Both Pretribbers and Preterists are clearly wrong that great tribulation begins with the DOTL.

[rwb]

Open your eyes and READ and PRAY for understanding the Gospel and Acts and the Apostles Letters and Revelation

And you audaciously think that I have not!!!

 

[Marilyn C]

Who scoffing at the Coming of Christ???

My Hope is in the LORD = HE is Coming Again to Raise the Saints who died in Him = 1 Thess 4:13-18

So i ask you again = Who is scoffing at the Holy Scriptures?

Certainly those who reject the Prophecy and Commandments of the LORD Jesus Christ

Immediately after the tribulation of those days:
‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’
At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven,cand all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

TERRIBLE sin @Marilyn C to scoff at the Prophecy of the LORD Jesus Christ

I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book.

He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!

21The grace of the Lord Jesusd be with all the saints.e

So, if you think the northern army in Joel 2 that God drives away into a barren land is the second coming of the Lord. That northern army comes down to Israel`s mountains and kills many Israelis. How is that God judging the world`s armies in the Valley of Jehosaphat and the Lord striking the men of the armies so that their flesh dissolves while they stand on their feet. (Joel 3 Zech. 14: 12)

 

[Truth7t7]

The 42 months, as all time periods in Revelation including the thousand years, are symbolic.

I Disagree

Once again 42 months is a literal time upon earth, the very same 42 months that (The Beast) will be given power upon this earth Rev 13:5

He was not crucified in Jerusalem. The great city is spiritually/figuratively called Sodom, Egypt and Babylon. That does not describe earthly Jerusalem. It is the spiritual opposite of the new heavenly Jerusalem, which is "the bride, the Lamb's wife" (Revelation 21:9-10).

John 19:20 Then many of the Jews read this title, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city; and it was written in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin.

Hebrews 13:12 Therefore Jesus also, that He might sanctify the people with His own blood, suffered outside the gate.

Jesus Christ literally received his death sentence in Jerusalem by crucifixion

Jesus Christ literally received his death sentence in Jerusalem by crucifixion upon this literal earth

The two witnesses symbolically represent the church. That's how their deaths will be celebrated around the world. It's celebrating the death of the witness/preaching of the gospel. It is silenced by all of the false teaching in the world in the time before Christ returns. That's what the 3.5 days symbolically represents, which is Satan's little season.

The (Two Witnesses) will be literal prophets that return, that have physical bodies that will literally die and lay dead in a literal street in Jerusalem as a literal world watches in celebration

This is very serious error that you are committing with your beliefs by suggesting that God would ordain and dwell in a temple made by antichrists. Paul taught that the temple of God now is the church.

At no time did I state or suggest that God would ordain and dwell in a man made temple upon this earth as you "Falsely Claim" looks like Pinocchio's nose is growing again in diversion

The scripture provided Isaiah 66:1-4 shows God condemning the future temple to be built as an abomination, and it goes into great detail of God's condemnation of the animal sacrifice that will take place against his will, God will send the strong Delusion because of this

I agree that this is talking about the future. Will you PLEASE STOP wasting your time making strawman arguments? Do you really want to waste your time doing that? Address what I believe, not what some strawman preterist believes. I see the above passage as relating to a mass falling away from the church, resulting in people who are in the church falling away and deciding that they don't need God anymore and essentially considering themselves to be God instead because of it. I relate that passage to Satan's little season. Do you think that Satan's little season is not referenced in any way anywhere in scripture except in Revelation 20? Notice that what is described in that passage relates to a future time that will be "after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders...". It's describing how things are during Satan's little season when Satan and wickedness is no longer restrained.

You can't contradict scripture by thinking that some future physical temple could possible be God's temple. God's temple has NEVER been one that He didn't ordain and didn't dwell in. Think about that.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 shows that there will be a future human man as the "Man Of Sin" as Paul describes, Daniel describes this human man as the "Little Horn", John describes this human man as "The Beast"

Yes you deny that there will be a future evil human man that will claim to be Messiah God upon this earth for 42 literal months, this evil human man is referenced in multiple places throughout scripture

Yes 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 shows that this evil human man will be destroyed by the Lord at his return/second coming

Diversions:

42 months is symbolic allegory

(Two Witnesses) that have bodies that die, and lay dead in a street as a world watches in celebration, is symbolic allegory

Jerusalem upon earth where Jesus was crucified, is symbolic allegory

The "Man Of Sin" who Jesus will literally destroy at his return is symbolic allegory

Your magic wand trying to remove the future literal events in diversion through symbolic allegory has now been removed, Pinocchio's nose has been cut off

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[amigo de christo]

And you audaciously think that I have not!!!

but whose mindset did you learn and read them through my friend .
Was it mens
You see i actually , by grace , have loved to read that bible daily my friend .
I didnt read it through pre, mid , post trib views . I JUST READ IT .
I didnt learn it through OSAS or non osas views , I JUST read it
Something i pray many WOULD do for themselves . cause
Many a soul has been taught doctrines of men , ONLY THEY BELIEVE THEM TO be of GOD .
And that my friend is and will b e their own down fall .
For I AM NOT , YOU ARE NOT , no man is , GOD .
MAN is capable of error , G OD IS NOT .
MAN is capable of lying , GOD IS NOT
Man is capable of twisting the scrips , GOD DOES NOT , but satan does .
May i invite us all again
TO TEA AND BIBLE TIME . and read it FOR YOURSELF and not through
the lens of this leaders . JUST watch how things could easily have cleared up in time .
BIBLE TIME in the house and its BIBLE TIME in the building . BUT DO REMEMbER
READ IT FOR YOU and not through the lens of what YOUR MEN and your mind desires it to mean
BUT JUST READ IT and eyes shall open and ears shall unclog from the MUD and NOISE that men have twisted unto the many .

 

[rwb]

but whose mindset did you learn and read them through my friend .
Was it mens
You see i actually , by grace , have loved to read that bible daily my friend .
I didnt read it through pre, mid , post trib views . I JUST READ IT .
I didnt learn it through OSAS or non osas views , I JUST read it
Something i pray many WOULD do for themselves . cause
Many a soul has been taught doctrines of men , ONLY THEY BELIEVE THEM TO be of GOD .
And that my friend is and will b e their own down fall .
For I AM NOT , YOU ARE NOT , no man is , GOD .
MAN is capable of error , G OD IS NOT .
MAN is capable of lying , GOD IS NOT
Man is capable of twisting the scrips , GOD DOES NOT , but satan does .
May i invite us all again
TO TEA AND BIBLE TIME . and read it FOR YOURSELF and not through
the lens of this leaders . JUST watch how things could easily have cleared up in time .
BIBLE TIME in the house and its BIBLE TIME in the building . BUT DO REMEMbER
READ IT FOR YOU and not through the lens of what YOUR MEN and your mind desires it to mean
BUT JUST READ IT and eyes shall open and ears shall unclog from the MUD and NOISE that men have twisted unto the many .

Excellent advice amigo! I couldn't agree more, because I myself not only read but also study my Bible daily, excepting rare occasions when on the road, and even then, find quiet time with my Lord in the evenings. In the beginning of my Christian walk, I was one of those who learned from others until the day I was convicted by contradictions being taught. That's when (about 30 years ago) the Spirit speaking to my conscience persuaded me to not only read, but study to show MYSELF approved of God, rightly dividing the Word of truth. Have I always done that with perfect understanding? Has anyone? But this is what I have learned to say, when I can be shown FROM the Word of God why my understanding cannot be true because it causes confusion or contradiction, then, and only then will I be open and willing to reconsider my thinking. Problem in these forums is that many people simply disagree from personal opinions without showing FROM the Bible why! If you or anyone else believe my replies show I have not read with open ears and eyes or that I have twisted the verses to fit my preconceived doctrines than I am ready to hear what you and others have to say. Frankly, I've grown very weary of snipping replies that serve only to belittle fellow Christians. Many blessings to you and yours Amigo, whom I consider my brother in Christ and friend.

 

[David in NJ]

So, if you think the northern army in Joel 2 that God drives away into a barren land is the second coming of the Lord. That northern army comes down to Israel`s mountains and kills many Israelis. How is that God judging the world`s armies in the Valley of Jehosaphat and the Lord striking the men of the armies so that their flesh dissolves while they stand on their feet. (Joel 3 Zech. 14: 12)

Good Morning,

Will respond later - May the LORD bless you and keep you and may His Light Shine upon you in JESUS Name - Amen

 

[David in NJ]

And you audaciously think that I have not!!!

i audaciously know that Reading & Praying for understanding is a CONTINUAL JOY & WALK with the HOLY SPIRIT of TRUTH

 

[rwb]

i audaciously know that Reading & Praying for understanding is a CONTINUAL JOY & WALK with the HOLY SPIRIT of TRUTH

That's a good thing, it's good to know that Christians are reading and praying for themselves. And yes I agree it is for me also a continual joy and walk with the Holy Spirit of Truth. That's why it surprised me to read your reply to my post as though you believe I haven't learned and studied but rely on the study/works of others?

 

[David in NJ]

That's a good thing, it's good to know that Christians are reading and praying for themselves. And yes I agree it is for me also a continual joy and walk with the Holy Spirit of Truth. That's why it surprised me to read your reply to my post as though you believe I haven't learned and studied but rely on the study/works of others?

Good Morning

Late starting for me as yesterday's work load beat hard on my 65 year old body.

 

[rwb]

Good Morning

Late starting for me as yesterday's work load beat hard on my 65 year old body.

Good morning to you as well! Fortunately going on 75 years, having retired I'm happy to say I no longer have a daily workload, so most days I'm able to spend much time in reading and study of God's Word. I am exceedingly blessed of God!

Have a blessed day!

 

[rebuilder 454]

you didnt sink squat my friend . Started OUT real good though .
on one and one two , even on t hree , TILL YA added this has to be A PRE TRIB rapture .
NO its a RAPTURE F ROM THE WARTH OF GOD bud . WHEN HE COMES DOWN
to LAY DOWN wrath against THAT VERY BEAST and very AC and all who took its mark .
OH ITS a rapture all right . Just not the pre trib you trying to make it out to be .
ITS KNOWN as A ONE TIME EVENT . You have been misled .
BUT what really terrifies me for you and all others is , THIS TIE i see into WHAT I KNOW
without out a doubt IS OF Satan , NOT GOD . AND NOT THE PLAN OF PEACE OF GOD
but the plan of peace of anti christ . YALLS beloved ecumeincal intefaith . Better flee it . or prepare to wail ON JESUS day .

Do you ever converse without invoking satan on somebody head ?

You claim anti bible rhetoric WITH NO VERSES.
You claim the rapture is from the wrath.
Everybody belives it.
HELLO...the pretrib rapture is from the wrath


Are you saying postrib rapture????
You can not read God's word????
The bible says every man woman and child take the mark....NOT WRITTEN IN THE BOOK.
The bible says the ac is given power TO OVERCOME THE SAINTS.
The bible says the saints overcome the AC by the blood of the lamb, and their testimony, AND THEY LOVED NOT THEIR LIVES UNTO DEATH.
(HELLO....MARTYRDOM.)
Rev 13
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

see that?
See this ....rev 7:9
After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10 and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” 11 And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying, “Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might be to our God forever and ever! Amen.”
13 Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, “Who are these, clothed in white robes, and from where have they come?” 14 I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
THAT IS THE BIBLE FURTHER AUTHENTICATING THAT ALL BELIEVERS DIE IN THE TRIB.


You claiming that is from Satan?????

Rev 13
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

You are ascribing verses to satan?????
It says every person on the planet takes the mark. Only believers refuse.
Ahem....they get their heads removed.

You postribs OMIT TONS OF SCRIPTURE.
Then go into a rant with no verses, omit ours, and invoke Satan.

Huh? ??????
You for real.
You have never defended your doctrine.
You just rant about how you believe Satan corrupts end times through anyone disagreeing with your made up doctrine.

I just showed you how YOU, NOR YOUR COLLEAGUES, "GO THROUGH " THE TRIB.
....and you are oblivious.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So, if you think the northern army in Joel 2 that God drives away into a barren land is the second coming of the Lord. That northern army comes down to Israel`s mountains and kills many Israelis. How is that God judging the world`s armies in the Valley of Jehosaphat and the Lord striking the men of the armies so that their flesh dissolves while they stand on their feet. (Joel 3 Zech. 14: 12)

I don't know what you're talking about here. You are suggesting that Joel prophesied about two different future days of the Lord? Two different future comings of the Lord?

Do you think we can trust the NT authors' (like Paul and Peter) understanding of the day of the Lord or not? They were certainly aware of the Old Testament prophecies. And they made it clear that the day of the Lord will come unexpectedly as a thief in the night, resulting in mass global destruction. That fits the description of the day of the Lord in Joel 2:11 as being "great and very terrible; Who can endure it?". Joel 2:31 says: "The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.". That lines up with what is described in Matthew 24:29-31. There is only one future day of the Lord and it will be the day that Jesus returns.

Do you think Peter and Paul were mistaken to describe the day of the Lord as being a day when Jesus will come unexpectedly as a thief in the night bringing global destruction to the earth? Why does your understanding of the day of the Lord not match theirs? Do you not think that the New Testament shines light on the Old Testament prophecies?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Who scoffing at the Coming of Christ???

My Hope is in the LORD = HE is Coming Again to Raise the Saints who died in Him = 1 Thess 4:13-18

So i ask you again = Who is scoffing at the Holy Scriptures?

Certainly those who reject the Prophecy and Commandments of the LORD Jesus Christ

Immediately after the tribulation of those days:
‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’
At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven,cand all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

TERRIBLE sin @Marilyn C to scoff at the Prophecy of the LORD Jesus Christ

I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book.

He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!

21The grace of the Lord Jesusd be with all the saints.e

Imagine applying a verse that refers to wicked unbelievers to someone on this forum. That in itself is wicked, yet that's exactly what she did to us. I would never do that to anyone here. I would never try to apply any verse that refers to wicked unbelievers to any person on this forum. That's just going way over the line.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I Disagree

Yes, I know. And, honestly, I don't care that you disagree.

Jesus Christ literally received his death sentence in Jerusalem by crucifixion

It doesn't say the great city where He received His death sentence, it says where He was actually crucified and scripture says that was outside of Jerusalem. How can you think that earthly Jerusalem could possibly be called the holy city? Modern day Jerusalem the holy city? No chance. And how can the temple of God be some physical temple built by antichrists? You need to think this through more carefully. I'm not going to waste a bunch of time repeating the same argument we've had probably literally at least 10 times before. I just don't want to do that anymore. So, you can try to do that if you want, but I'm not interested.

 

[rebuilder 454]

YOU ever wonder why pre trib is not mentioned .
DO you ever wonder why when it is written
things that even say THE BEAST COMETH against THE SAINTS .
Notice they have to say OH ITS THE TRIBULATION saints the ones that got left behind .
STRANGE , IT SURE NEVER SAID THAT .
IT was written for what , OUR LEARNING , OUR ADOMINTION .
Kinda odd that even an angel warns NOT to take the mark
and all who do will be damned . And yet i guess those parts jus dont pertain to the sheep . KINDA ODD indeed .
THEY HAVE TO TWIST EVERYTHING to even make anything make any kind of sense about pre trib .
HOW come when JESUS warned about HIS day
he always TOLD them BE WATCHING and BE READY lest I COME UPON YOU as a THEIF.
HOW come JESUS said Ye are appointed UNTO tribulation , and pre trib says OH NO WE AINT
GOD TAKES US OUT FIRST . really , and they expect ME to buy THAT MESS they teach .
NOPE . I shall stick to what JESUS said . with the reminder
BE FAITHFUL UNTO TO DEATH . And he who endures to the END the same shall be saved .

Ever wonder why postribbers reject verses and yet post nothing to authenticate their made up doctrine.
We have 9+verses to your zero.

You just make claims.
No verses.
Just claims.

Pretrib rapture was taught 4 separate times by Jesus himself.
Your response is "it came from satan."
*Rev 3
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

*Matthew ch24
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

*Luke 21:36
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

*Luke 17
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
( now that is just 4 out of 9 verses you say came from satan.)

....not to mention mat 25 (the virgin parable.)
ÀLL RAPTURE VERSES ARE IN NORMAL LIFE SETTING, AND BUYING AND SELLING,

You have no clue as to what the bible says.

HELLO...Your rapture model IS IMPOSSIBLE ON MANY MANY STATEMENTS BY JESUS.
You know....the stuff you say came from satan.
You rant about deception, and everyone but you lining up with the devil, in one side of your mouth, then cast down Jesus
Words with the other

Bizarre.

 

[PinSeeker]

You Calvinists think that you are the only ones who give God the glory.

No, of course not, but the effect of what you Arminians say is to diminish God's glory, or to divide the glory in some proportion between God and man. Certainly not the intention; never would you actually intend or purposefully do that... And it cannot really be done; no one and no thing can actually diminish God's glory, or share in it (Isaiah 42:8 ~ "I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to anyone else..."), as He is the one Who glorifies Himself... But it is the effect, the inevitable implication of the thinking of Pelagius, Arminius, and all those who think as they did. And that's what I've been saying all along ~ about this and other things that Arminians think ~ and it's absolutely true. Not just because I say it... it just is what it is. But we all have specks/logs in our eye, unfortunately... <smile> For now, anyway... <smile>

As if my belief that people are required to humble themselves and admit that they are complete losers and sinners who can't save themselves...

Right, I agree, and we as Christians all fall short in that, some moreso in certain areas than others. <smile>

You really, truly need to humble yourself.

As do you. <smile> I mean, you're quite obviously looking down your nose ~ lacking in humility, metaphorically speaking ~ and saying this. If I were to say this, I would be equally. Unless I were to say the same thing of myself, which... yes, we are both guilty, and the need for continual repentance is... universal... <smile>

You are not God.

Agreed; I am not. <smile> Nor are you. <chuckles> However, since Eve was deceived into thinking she could be like God and Adam went along with her, so his was the greater sin, so, as we are all his progeny (Eve is the mother of all the living), we are in the same state from birth, even conception, with which... I know, I know, you disagree... but such is the sinful state of man...

I truly was bored.

I don't care. <smile>

You cannot read my mind.

But I can understand things about you from what you say. And you can me, I'm sure. Neither one of us are dumb. <smile>

May God strike me dead right now if I was not telling the truth that you were boring me. You truly were.

Yeah, I think that was a lie... or just self-deception... but... yeah, don't care.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

At no time did I state or suggest that God would ordain and dwell in a man made temple upon this earth as you "Falsely Claim" looks like Pinocchio's nose is growing again in diversion

The scripture provided Isaiah 66:1-4 shows God condemning the future temple to be built as an abomination, and it goes into great detail of God's condemnation of the animal sacrifice that will take place against his will, God will send the strong Delusion because of this

What am I supposed to think when you say a reference to "the temple of God" refers to a future physical temple? Give me a break! Learn how to communicate more clearly! Don't blame me for your lack of communication skills. Neither Revelation 11:2 nor 2 Thessalonians 2:4 refer to some future FAKE temple of God. The temple of God is a temple that God ordains and dwells in. Always.

 

[rebuilder 454]

but whose mindset did you learn and read them through my friend .
Was it mens
You see i actually , by grace , have loved to read that bible daily my friend .
I didnt read it through pre, mid , post trib views . I JUST READ IT .
I didnt learn it through OSAS or non osas views , I JUST read it
Something i pray many WOULD do for themselves . cause
Many a soul has been taught doctrines of men , ONLY THEY BELIEVE THEM TO be of GOD .
And that my friend is and will b e their own down fall .
For I AM NOT , YOU ARE NOT , no man is , GOD .
MAN is capable of error , G OD IS NOT .
MAN is capable of lying , GOD IS NOT
Man is capable of twisting the scrips , GOD DOES NOT , but satan does .
May i invite us all again
TO TEA AND BIBLE TIME . and read it FOR YOURSELF and not through
the lens of this leaders . JUST watch how things could easily have cleared up in time .
BIBLE TIME in the house and its BIBLE TIME in the building . BUT DO REMEMbER
READ IT FOR YOU and not through the lens of what YOUR MEN and your mind desires it to mean
BUT JUST READ IT and eyes shall open and ears shall unclog from the MUD and NOISE that men have twisted unto the many .

If you are bible centered, post a postrib rapture verse for us.
Should be easy.

 

[rebuilder 454]

it aint me sitting under that which is of anti christ nor its peace plan .
ITS THE LIBERAL PROGRESSIVE , ITS THE NAR LED REALM
ITs all who have a part or support in any way , ECUMEINICAL INTEFIATH finding common ground .
NOW it aint me sitting under anyone that supports that . THE LEFT DOES
THE RIGHT DOES , and YES SIR TRUMP N VANCE DOES , THE POPE does
THEY DUPING EVERY LAST ONE OF YOU .
SO my advice to all is FLEE IT . And never look back .

Yes yes we all see how everyone of us is evil in your eyes and you are such the champion that all your colleagues ( just as deluded as you ) agree.

Every post you make is your infallability and everyone that challenges your made up rant, come from satan.

That alone is massive red flags.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No, of course not, but the effect of what you Arminians say is to diminish God's glory, or to divide the glory in some proportion between God and man.

I don't care. <smile>

Now, there's something we can agree on.

But I can understand things about you from what you say. And you can me, I'm sure. Neither one of us are dumb. <smile>

Another thing we can agree on. That's two things! Awesome! We are best buddies now.

Yeah, I think that was a lie... or just self-deception... but... yeah, don't care.

And then you ruin it by calling me a liar. But you allow that it could just be self deception instead. How nice!

Grace and peace to you.

You say after accusing me of lying. Whatever, buddy.