1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured BreadOfLife ~ UNPROVEN CLAIMS..

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by Taken, Aug 1, 2019.

  1. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,029
    Likes Received:
    1,327
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    And this verse, when read in CONTEXT with 2 John 7, states that Jesus came IN THE FLESH – not in the “likeness” of flesh.

    I know you don’t like that word “CONTEXT” but it’s something you’ll have to get used to if you want to be a serious Scripture student.
    Your Docetist heresy was condemned 1600 years ago . . .
     
  2. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,263
    Likes Received:
    1,025
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    'And the angel answered and said unto her,
    The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee,
    and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee:
    therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee
    shall be called the Son of God.'

    (Luke 1:35)

    Hello Taken,

    I think the necessity for the word 'likeness' in Romans 8:3 was because of the words 'sinful flesh': for the Lord Jesus Christ was, in all respects, made in the form of man in regard to 'form', just as He was in the 'form' of God prior to His coming (Philippians 2:6-7). The difference was in regard to 'sinful flesh', for He was without sin, as God was His Father.

    I believe that the argument you are having with BreadOfLife is not going to be concluded, unless that point is acknowledged. BreadOfLife, has acknowledged that in respect to 'sinful flesh' our Lord was in it's 'likeness' only, for He Himself was sinless, yet He was in the form of man in every respect apart from that, having been 'born of a woman'.

    Praise His Holy Name!

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2019
    BreadOfLife and Nancy like this.
  3. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,100
    Likes Received:
    2,107
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Agree.

    I already acknowledged that point...
    Post # 662.

    Disagree.
    BOL claims Jesus IS a Human, "Because" of Mary's "seed", DNA.

    Agree.

    Rather, I would say; having a body God Prepared for Jesus.

    Heb 10:5
    [5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:



    Amen!


    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
  4. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,263
    Likes Received:
    1,025
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    'For verily He took not on Him the nature of angels;
    but He took on Him the seed of Abraham.
    Wherefore in all things it behoved Him to be made like unto His brethren,
    that He might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God,
    to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.'

    (Hebrews 2:16)

    Hello Taken,

    That 'Holy thing' (Luke 1:35) which was born of Mary, was indeed a body which God prepared for Him. He was made 'a little lower than the angels' (Psalm 8:5; Hebrews 2:7; Hebrews 2:9). The Lord Jesus Christ, following His resurrection, declared Himself to consist of, 'flesh and bones,' and denied that He was, 'spirit' (Luke 24:39). He was, 'made flesh', (John 1:14)

    David testified that from his loins, 'according to the flesh' (Acts 2:30; Romans 1:3), Christ would come: and so He did, through the one chosen to give birth to Him (Galatians 4:4), who was of David's line.

    Thank you.
    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
    BreadOfLife and Nancy like this.
  5. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,029
    Likes Received:
    1,327
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Ummmmm, we ALL have a body that was prepared for us by God.
    Who prepared YOURS??
     
  6. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,100
    Likes Received:
    2,107
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Yes, well aware, not in dispute.

    In context, Jesus Said, (not Christ).

    And what is your understanding of according to the flesh?

    Yes, not in dispute.
    Jesus being in the flesh is not in dispute.
    I do not agree Jesus is or was a HUMAN man.

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
  7. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,100
    Likes Received:
    2,107
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    My body was Given me, by God, just the same as ALL earthly humans.

    Disagree ALL earthly humans have a prepared body, yet some do, who have become Converted IN Christ, BY Christ, such as myself.

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
  8. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,263
    Likes Received:
    1,025
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    'And as they thus spake, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them,
    and saith unto them, "Peace be unto you."
    But they were terrified and affrighted,
    and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
    And He said unto them, "Why are ye troubled?
    and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
    Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself:
    handle me, and see;
    for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

    (Luke 24:36-39)

    Hello @Taken,

    With reference to the verse I quoted from Luke's gospel (quoted above), you say (quote) 'Jesus said' (not Christ)'. Would you please tell me why you make this distinction? and what difference you believe that makes to the words He uttered ?

    * You ask me for my understanding of the words, 'according to the flesh'. Well, if you are referring to the verse I quoted from Acts 2:20, where David prophesied concerning the coming of Christ,

    'Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David,
    that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
    Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him,
    that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh,
    He would raise up Christ to sit on His throne;
    He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ,
    that his soul was not left in hell,
    neither his flesh did see corruption.'

    (Acts 2:29-31)

    * I believe that the words, 'according to the flesh', are intended to distinguish between what is of the flesh, and what is of the spirit.

    Thank you.
    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
    Nancy likes this.
  9. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,029
    Likes Received:
    1,327
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Where do you get your bizarre, unbiblical theology??

    EVERY person who ever lived - including Hitler, Manson, Dahmer and Stalin had a body that was prepared for them by God.
    He is the Creator of ALL living beings.

    Jer. 1:5
    Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you.

    Your credibility has just hit a new low . . .
     
  10. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,100
    Likes Received:
    2,107
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    I agree with scripture. Yet I do not completely agree with your understanding.

    The Word of God came forth out from Gods mouth. Truly I believe that which is IN God, IS God, regardless if what IS God comes forth out from God.

    The Word of God, by Gods own pleasure, came to earth IN the "LIKENESS" (appearence and manifestation) of a "HUMAN" man. That manifestation didn't "MAKE" the Word of God a "human", it "MADE" him Appear in the "Likeness" as a human, for human men to see and hear and observe as an Example "for" the benefit of human men.

    According to the flesh? Yes.
    With a form and likeness as a human..
    Bones, Flesh, Blood, walking, talking, eating, sleeping, liked, disliked, falsely accused, attacked, tired, etc.

    And yes, entered THIS world, in the same manner "according" to the flesh, being in the womb of a human woman 9 months, coming forth from the woman's womb, being called born of a woman, being called and recorded (according to mans LAW), as a Legal Son of That woman.

    As well "according" to the flesh, (LAW of man, and nature), that babe born of a woman, is the "Son of", that woman's, ancestorial "fathers".....Abraham, Jacob, Issac....AND...
    Most importantly..."Isaac and King David".

    Thus, the Word of God, announced to be called: by the Name of Jesus, AND by the Title of Son of God...fulfilled (and continues to fulfill) Gods promises, Gods Law and Mans Law.

    Jesus did not come in the LIKENESS of "ALL" men. (In one respect yes, aka, flesh, blood and bone). However expressly Jesus came in the LIKENESS of a specific man...Faithful Abraham...

    It was forward TO Abraham (and Abrahams faithful descendants) that God made specific promises.

    IF you read the ancient scriptures, Abraham was Abram, a son of a man who had come to ACCEPT and live according to Gentile ways, (as did many of the Tribes of Israel, who at one time had been "SET apart" and became Lost.)

    I am a Gentile by my natural earthly birth, and not, BY natural birth..WITH the Lord God.

    Jesus came in the Likeness of a Faithful man, to SEEK out Faithful (to God) men out of the Tribes of Israel, and LOST men, (once having been faithful to God, but Lost their way), particularly Judah. And by default, Gentiles Also began to Hear, Listen, Observe Jesus, and ACCEPT His teachings, and ACCEPT His Word, and ACCEPT His God.

    A little dilemma...I am still a Gentile, and Abraham a Hebrew. And it was forward to Abraham that God made promises that Abraham would be a Father of many nations.
    And LAND was promised to Abraham (AND) Abrahams Descendants.

    That LAND so promised Abraham IS ALSO where King David's everlasting Throne sits.

    It was necessary for the Word of God to be manifested IN the historical genealogical line of Abraham AND Isaac AND King David (according to Gods law and mans law), FOR the Word of God, to legally take possession of King Davids Throne.

    Scripture Teaches;
    Jesus "took upon Himself" the "seed" of "FAITHFUL" Abraham, (forward VIA Isaac specific, not Ishmael ), which "MADE" Jesus an heir to Abraham's promised LAND.

    KEY note... a "FAITHFUL" man, (specifically named Abraham), is the "LIKENESS" Jesus took upon Himself.

    I am not a Hebrew, Jew, or out of ANY Tribe of Israel..."YET", LIKE JESUS, my Example, "I" also took upon myself the 'seed' of Abraham, thus "MAKING" myself (like Jesus), an HEIR to Abraham's promised "land" inheritance.

    And WHAT "seed" is that that one TAKES upon themselves?

    For the fulfillment of mans LAW, it is Abraham's (forward to Isaac) Descending Line....MAKING such a man a son of Abraham on earth.

    For the fulfillment of Gods LAW, it is the SEED of God (who IS Christ)...MAKING such a man a son of God.

    Point being. Jesus IS NOT, WAS NOT, "a Human man" (as BOL and others teach). Jesus IS the Word of God manifested in the Likeness AS a (human) man, FOR the benefit of (human) men.

    And when earthly men Hear, Learn, Trust and commit TO the Lord God, they DO NOT BECOME GOD, they become "IN Gods LIKENESS".

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
  11. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,100
    Likes Received:
    2,107
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Because Jesus made the distinction...

    Luke 24:

    [36] And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
    [37] But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
    [38] And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
    [39] Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
    [40] And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
    [41] And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
    [42] And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
    [43] And he took it, and did eat before them.
    [44] And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
    [45] Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
    [46] And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

    Comprehend Jesus speaking, in first person, then in third person?

    Yes Jesus and Christ ARE He...yet
    Jesus, as Jesus, fulfills particular things.
    Christ, as Christ, fulfills particular things.

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
  12. David Taylor

    David Taylor Active Member

    Messages:
    535
    Likes Received:
    202
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    BOL is a deceiver and twister of words.
     
    Taken likes this.
  13. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,263
    Likes Received:
    1,025
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Re: replies #670 & 671

    Hello @Taken,

    I must let the Lord be the arbiter in regard to the content of these two replies you have made in response to my post: but I thank you for trying to explain what has led you to believe as you do. Even if I cannot share your conclusions.

    In regard to Luke 24:46, I confess that has also caught my attention, but I will not allow myself to draw any inferences from it, for only God knows the truth of these things. Christ was risen from the dead when He spoke those words, and His work on earth as Messiah (or the 'Christ') was accomplished. He had come unto His own, and His own had received Him not, and would not, though the door of opportunity would remain open for a further 40 years following those words. However the day will come when Israel will indeed recognise and acknowledge Christ Jesus the risen Lord, as their Messiah and King.

    Praise His Holy Name!


    May the Lord's will be done in each one of us, for His Name and glory's sake.

    With love in Christ Jesus
    our risen and glorified
    Saviour, Lord and Head.
    Chris
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2019
    Taken likes this.
  14. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,100
    Likes Received:
    2,107
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    I ask noone to follow me, but rather follow the Word of God and let God lead them to His truth and His understanding.

    The disciples First knew Christ as a man, and thereafter knew him no more (as a man.)

    2 Cor 5
    [16] Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

    1 Cor 15
    [47] The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
    charity likes this.
  15. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,100
    Likes Received:
    2,107
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    God "gives" every seed it's own body.
    ...
    1 Cor 15
    [38] But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

    God "forms" the body.
    ...
    Jer 1:
    [5] Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

    The Word of God is WiTHOUT BEGINNING.
    ... Heb 7:3
    The Word of God IS God.
    ... John 1:1
    The Word of God has a FORM.
    ... Phil 2:6
    Gods form is INVISIBLE to earthly men.
    ... 1 Tim 1:17

    God "PREPARED" His form,
    "FOR" when it was to "COME TO EARTH"...
    "AND" be seen by earthly men.

    ...Heb 10:
    [5]Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

    ... in a fashion SO earthly men COULD SEE HIM,

    John 14
    [9] Jesus saith ... he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; ...

    THE WORD of God, took that PREPARED FORM "upon" himself.
    ...
    Phil 2:
    7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, ...

    and was made in the LIKENESS of men:

    IF you desire to KNOW the TRUTH,
    LEARN HOW TO DISCOVER the TRUTH.

    The five "W" questions and one "H" question is the essential clause in grammar you should have learned in first grade necessary to gather facts of a particular subject.

    The Answers to the Questions give one the Basic information pertaining to the subject.

    WHO ~ Invisible God
    WHAT ~ Word in the fashion "AS" an earthly man.
    WHEN ~ at the time He came from Heaven.
    WHY ~ to be Seen by eyes of earthly men.
    WHERE ~ Earth, Judea
    HOW
    ...By the POWER of God
    ...By the "PREPARATION" of God.

    Creation is one thing.
    ... Causing what DID NOT exist, TO exist.

    Making is another thing.
    ... Causing a Created thing to have a different Appearence or Attribute.

    God IS Spirit.
    God does NOT change.
    God HAS a supernatural body.
    God HAS a soul.
    God HAS a spirit.
    God HAS the POWER to "take upon His body" the FORM of ANY BODY, that pleases Him to do so.

    God taking "upon His body", the FORM of a HUMAN BODY....
    Does NOT "make" God a "Human"...
    It "makes" God in the "LIKENESS" as a Human.


    Human men ARE Dust of the Earth.
    Humans HAVE a natural body.
    Humans HAVE a soul.
    Humans HAVE a spirit.

    A Humans soul can be Restored.
    A Humans spirit can be Born again of Gods seed.
    A Humans body can be "PREPARED" to "BE" glorified.

    The "PREPARATION" is accomplished "when" a Human Becomes "CONVERTED" in Christ.
    Rom 9:23
    Luke 1:17


    The "Fruition of the Glorification of a Humans Body" is accomplished..."when" (in the future)..."when" ?

    "When" the Lord descends from Heaven TO the clouds and CALLS UP TO HIM, the Converted; they Rise Up IN a Glorified Body, to meet the Lord in the air.
    1 Thes 4:16
    1 Thes 4:17
    1 Cor 15:43

    You apply incorrect words to things, (and people) they do not correctly apply to, then call people names who do not agree with you.

    LEARN the TRUTH.
    Study the ORDER of Which words truthfully Answer the Basic grammar questions.

    Jesus, the Word of God;
    John 1:1
    Jesus the Christ, the Power of God;
    1 Cor 1:24

    JESUS IS NOT as YOU claim...A HUMAN MAN

    Jesus, the Word of God, came forth out from God IN Heaven, and was Manifested "IN THE LIKENESS" of a human man, in a BODY prepared of God.

    LIKENESS is a "similarity".

    Jesus' prepared body, had flesh, bones, blood, SIMILAR to Human men, who have flesh, bones and blood.

    A HUMAN man, who becomes CONVERTED "IN Christ" HAS a restored soul, a quickened born again of Gods Seed spirit, and a BODY prepared to be raised IN glory, IN Gods LIKENESS, "without Blood, without Bones, without Sin"...

    Such a man "DOES NOT BECOME GOD"...
    Any more than GOD "BECAME a HUMAN".

    Such a man "BECOMES" in Gods "LIKENESS",
    Just as Jesus "BECAME" in a Human mans "LIKENESS".

    God DOES NOT Change.
    Mal 3:
    [6] For I am the LORD, I change not;

    It is Converted men IN Christ, who "Change".
    Phil 3:
    [21] Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

    YOU said;
    (Quote; BOL, "Jesus IS a Human"}
    YOU "CHANGE" Jesus into "A HUMAN MAN".
    Scripture doesn't.
    Scripture reveals Jesus was Manifested "IN THE LIKENESS ... as ... a Jewish Human man".

    Learn what it is THAT YOU DO for yourself, by YOUR CLAIMS.

    Rom 1
    [
    23] And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
    [
    25] Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
    [
    26] For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
  16. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,029
    Likes Received:
    1,327
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    No need to keep going round and round.
    Suffice it to say - your interpretation is dead wrong - and NOT in line with Scripture or Christ's 2000 year old Christian Church.

    The Son IS eternal.
    God IS Spirit.
    In His infinite mercy, God was manifested as a human being and was born of a woman so that He could be the PERFECT human sacrifice for the expiation of our sins.

    Them's the CHRISTIAN facts.
     
  17. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,100
    Likes Received:
    2,107
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    .

    The Son IS eternal.
    God IS Spirit.
    In His infinite mercy, God was manifested as a human being and was born of a woman so that He could be the PERFECT human sacrifice for the expiation of our sins.

    Them's the CHRISTIAN facts.[/QUOTE]

    You call me wrong, then repeat as fact, what I have said.

    I have clearly said "AS" a human.

    In opposition to what YOU SAID...
    BOL quote regarding Jesus...("IS" a human).

    Take responsibility for your own errors.

    Twisting the Truth, making false accusations simply reveals YOU slither as an underhanded snake.

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
  18. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,029
    Likes Received:
    1,327
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Your word games are silly.

    "Is", "As" - Christ is BOTH God and a Human Being.
    That is the Biblical truth that you have been denying now for the last hundred or so posts.

    Take it up with HIM.
    I've proven my point . . .
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2019
  19. David Taylor

    David Taylor Active Member

    Messages:
    535
    Likes Received:
    202
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    We find common ground. :)
     
    BreadOfLife likes this.
  20. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,100
    Likes Received:
    2,107
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Of course I deny Jesus IS Human man.

    HUMAN men are "Created" and out of the Dust (of The Existing Earth,) That lives, dies, and returns to the Dust of the Existing Earth.

    Jesus IS the "Eternal God" who came fourth out from God in the (similar) LIKENESS AS a FAITHFUL man.

    No you have not.

    You have proved you do not comprehend the difference between IS and AS.

    You have made claims that Jesus IS a Human man.

    YOU Have NOT provided any Scriptural EVIDENCE For your Claim saying Jesus, the only begotten Son of God
    IS
    a "Human" man.

    Try Again.

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
Loading...