BREAKING OF BREAD

[Marymog]

You could never convince me that it is the real blood and body of the Lord. Of course, a simple DNA test could confirm whether or not it is true. The Lord has risen in a transformed body. All of His blood has been shed. It is all gone! The thought that some priest can use some sort of hocus pocus to conjure up the real blood and body of Jesus sounds too much to me like a pagan practice God detests and detests. He also detests those who communicate with the dead:

9 “When you enter the land which the Lord your God gives you, you shall not learn to imitate the detestable things of those nations. 10 There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, 11 or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. 12 For whoever does these things is detestable to the Lord; and because of these detestable things the Lord your God will drive them out before you. 13 You shall be blameless before the Lord your God. 14 For those nations, which you shall dispossess, listen to those who practice witchcraft and to diviners, but as for you, the Lord your God has not allowed you to do so." Deut 18

I’m not trying to convince you....he and Paul are

 

[Marymog]

And are you going to keep asking stupid questions or face reality?

Was Paul’s question in 1 Corinthians 10:16 a stupid question question?

 

[Marymog]

Obviously, if Jesus wanted them to eat His body, it was right there, ready for consumption, it that is what He talking about. The bread and wine were obviously symbolism. God has never advocated cannibalism!!

Drinking blood, forbidden many places in Scripture, was declared by David to be a pagan practice of worshipping other gods:

"As for the saints who are in the earth,
They are the majestic ones in whom is all my delight.
The sorrows of those who have bartered for another god will be multiplied;
I shall not pour out their drink offerings of blood,
Nor will I take their names upon my lips." Psalm 16:3-4

Roman Catholicism, is merely a continuation of pagan worship of the goddess, "Queen of Heaven" to whom the the pope kneels before her graven image!! This evil "Queen of Heaven" cult was known to prophet Jeremiah. They were so evil and beyond redemption that God instructed the prophet: "Do not pray for this people, and do not lift up cry or prayer for them, and do not intercede with Me; for I do not hear you." Jeremiah 7:18

"The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead dough to make cakes for the Queen of Heaven; and they pour out drink offerings to other gods in order to spite Me." Jeremiah 7:18

These round cakes, used in the Catholic Eucharist, are like the round cake in honour of her virgin born Sun God, Tamuz.

Roman Catholicism has carried on this "Queen of Heaven" cult under a new name, of the Ever-Virgin of the Immaculate Conception.

Sooooo you don’t believe Him? How sad

 

[Stumpmaster]

What's this about drinking grape juice?? The Seder always specified not only wine, but four cups of it! And that is a lot! At the last supper, the Bible says nothing about drinking grape juice, because that would have been impossible at Passover. They drank wine!

We prefer grape juice, its not a sin to drink a cup of it in remembrance of Christ's blood shed for us. The Judaizers and legalisers may quibble about it but Paul's instructions on such matters of conscience are our guide.
1Co 10:31 Whether therefore you eat, or drink, or whatsoever you do, do all to the glory of God.

 

[bbyrd009]

PART TWO

This passage of scripture is used time and time again to justify giving people a bit of bread and a sip of wine under the heading of the Lord's Supper. However, when one studies all of the passage and the meaning of words in Greek, you find out that is has nothing at all to do with the Lord's supper.

This passage is Paul's instruction on how to conduct themselves during their communal meals and was necessary as some things were happening that were bringing the gathering into disrepute explained by Paul as not discerning the body of the Lord.

One has to draw a longbow to make this a bread/sip scenario as first the NT Church did not have a bread/sip scenario but they did have communal meals all the time. In this case, to make this passage a bread/sip scenario, you have to ignore the meat of it. (pun intended).

I am not going to do a line by line exposition, rather I will bring out relevant parts and words that show the real meaning of the passage.

So let's start with verse 20 where it says that it is not the Lord's supper you eat. The word supper in the Greek means banquet or feast. That in itself rules out the bread/sip scenario as you cannot have a banquet with a bread/sip scenario. If I put on a banquet for someone, the table is laden with all sorts of goodies that are enough to make your mouth water.

It was standard practice that everyone would contribute to the meal if you were able to. Obviously slaves and some widows were unable to so everyone mucked in and made sure there was enough for themselves and the others who could contribute to the meal.

Verse 21 says that some of them were eating without regard to others. Which means that some went without and those eating got drunk. How can this happen with the bread/sip scenario?

Verse 22. If anyone was hungry they were told to eat at home first. Hunger would not have been solved with the bread/sip scenario.

Verse 23. This instruction was given as part of the Passover meal which the church celebrated once a year because it was a Jewish church that did not stop being Jews so they would have adopted the Jewish feasts. In the beginning, it was known as "The Way" a sect of Judaism. That meant once a year Passover meal, not once a week Lord's Supper which is not a meal.

With the Passover meal, taking bread by the head of the house and passing it round to the guests was normal as part of the meal. There were four glasses of wine, each one indication something to do with the celebration. Up till the Passover that Jesus officiated over they had always met to celebrate their deliverance from Egypt and the anticipated messiah who was going to deliver them from Roman occupation. That is why they always left an empty chair at the meal in the hope he was going to come that evening.

The cup that Jesus took was the last one and he was using it to instruct the followers what the new covenant was all about. Which was a covenant in his blood, not the blood of animals as had been until now.

In verses 24 and 25 when he said it was his body and blood, those present would know that it was not literally his body and blood because Jews were forbidden to eat human flesh and drink human blood. So that puts paid to Catholic teaching on the subject.

i think youre onto something there, up top anyway
i guess a bunch of those present did not know though, huh? Which makes little sense in the literal--ok, no sense--but carries an important spiritual message for us i guess
anyway, there in the middle, i'm pretty sure actual food is not the subject?

 

[bbyrd009]

1st....The bread and wine were NOT obviously symbolism since He said "This IS my body/blood..." he did not say a "symbol" of my body/blood so I am not sure why you added that word to Scripture.

c'mon mary, you cannot possibly be that obtuse

He said it was sooo I believe Him. The real question is...why don’t you believe Him?

ok, stay on the high horse if you like, but you are going to be asked How is it you did not know I was not talking about bread ok, at least if you desire to convert from Catholicism to Christianity.

I’m not trying to convince you....he and Paul are

you make an idol out of Communion, like all Papists do i guess. I have no probs with that myself, but then why not go to a Catholic forum, where that wont be challenged? I mean you could stay with your doctored bible and everything? Bc let's be honest mary, you are not ready to forgive the pope yet, are you?

 

[Marymog]

c'mon mary, you cannot possibly be that obtuse

ok, stay on the high horse if you like, but you are going to be asked How is it you did not know I was not talking about bread ok, at least if you desire to convert from Catholicism to Christianity.

you make an idol out of Communion, like all Papists do i guess. I have no probs with that myself, but then why not go to a Catholic forum, where that wont be challenged? I mean you could stay with your doctored bible and everything? Bc let's be honest mary, you are not ready to forgive the pope yet, are you?

Hi troll,

You do keep me in stitches

How do you fulfill John 6:53?

 

[Marymog]

c'mon mary, you cannot possibly be that obtuse

ok, stay on the high horse if you like, but you are going to be asked How is it you did not know I was not talking about bread ok, at least if you desire to convert from Catholicism to Christianity.

you make an idol out of Communion, like all Papists do i guess. I have no probs with that myself, but then why not go to a Catholic forum, where that wont be challenged? I mean you could stay with your doctored bible and everything? Bc let's be honest mary, you are not ready to forgive the pope yet, are you?

Catholics, and some Protestants on this forum, believe in the Real Presence doctrine. WE believe what He said.

You asked: Why don’t I go to a catholic forum because of this belief?

Do tell me Bbyrd....where should the Protestants on this forum go? Should they also leave since they believe what He said?


Why don’t you believe what He said?

 

[Candidus]

I for one BELIEVE what Jesus said in Jn. 6:63 following what He said about eating His flesh, and drinking His blood.., "It is the Spirit who give life; the flesh profits nothing; the words I have spoken to you are spirit (spiritual) and are life."

Jesus said that He was speaking spiritually, and denies that the flesh He spoke of profits nothing. Cannibalism is not Christianity!

 

[bbyrd009]

Hi troll,

You do keep me in stitches

How do you fulfill John 6:53?

i would guess that since no one was offered any literal flesh or blood that that must be accomplished spiritually mary, but imo you are certainly not required to do that if you dont want to. You could maybe address How is it you did not know that I was not talking about bread? for yourself, i'm not sure how a Catholic would treat that v myself

Catholics, and some Protestants on this forum, believe in the Real Presence doctrine. WE believe what He said.

You asked: Why don’t I go to a catholic forum because of this belief?

Do tell me Bbyrd....where should the Protestants on this forum go? Should they also leave since they believe what He said?


Why don’t you believe what He said?

bc imo you are not hearing what was actually said, and as you are also not interested in changing your mind it would be pointless to debate it with you i guess. He also said How did you not know... right? Why don't you believe what He said, Mary?

 

[Marymog]

i would guess that since no one was offered any literal flesh or blood that that must be accomplished spiritually mary, but imo you are certainly not required to do that if you dont want to. You could maybe address How is it you did not know that I was not talking about bread? for yourself, i'm not sure how a Catholic would treat that v myself

bc imo you are not hearing what was actually said, and as you are also not interested in changing your mind it would be pointless to debate it with you i guess. He also said How did you not know... right? Why don't you believe what He said, Mary?

There are some Protestants who believe what He said. Where should the Protestants on this forum go? Should they also leave, and join a catholic forum, since they believe what He said?

 

[Marymog]

We prefer grape juice, its not a sin to drink a cup of it in remembrance of Christ's blood shed for us. The Judaizers and legalisers may quibble about it but Paul's instructions on such matters of conscience are our guide.
1Co 10:31 Whether therefore you eat, or drink, or whatsoever you do, do all to the glory of God.

Curious...why grape juice when scripture says wine?

 

[Marymog]

i would guess that since no one was offered any literal flesh or blood that that must be accomplished spiritually mary, but imo you are certainly not required to do that if you dont want to. You could maybe address How is it you did not know that I was not talking about bread? for yourself, i'm not sure how a Catholic would treat that v myself

How do you fulfill John 6:53?

 

[Marymog]

I for one BELIEVE what Jesus said in Jn. 6:63 following what He said about eating His flesh, and drinking His blood.., "It is the Spirit who give life; the flesh profits nothing; the words I have spoken to you are spirit (spiritual) and are life."

Jesus said that He was speaking spiritually, and denies that the flesh He spoke of profits nothing. Cannibalism is not Christianity!

Hmmmm....Jesus told us what we must do to have eternal life and then he showed us how to do it. What more do you want from him?

MULTIPLE times in John 6 he made it clear he was not meaning that we must spiritually eat/drink him. That is a 500 year teaching. Paul taught OPPOSITE of that in 1 Corinthians 10:16. Presuming your theory is correct HOW do you eat/drink him spiritually?

 

[Stan B]

We prefer grape juice, its not a sin to drink a cup of it in remembrance of Christ's blood shed for us. The Judaizers and legalisers may quibble about it but Paul's instructions on such matters of conscience are our guide.
1Co 10:31 Whether therefore you eat, or drink, or whatsoever you do, do all to the glory of God.

Wine is God's gift to mankind as a symbol of joy and gladness,

"Wine to gladden the heart of man" Psalm 104.

"Go then, eat your bread in happiness and drink your wine with a cheerful heart; for God has already approved your works." Ecclesiastes 9:7

It will also be featured on the menu for the celebration of Marriage Supper of the Lamb: "The Lord of hosts will prepare a lavish banquet for all peoples on this mountain; A banquet of aged wine, choice pieces with marrow, And refined, aged wine." Isaiah 25:6

I don't understand the thinking of those who consider it a virtue to trample upon God's gifts and teach others to do so.

 

[Marymog]

I for one BELIEVE what Jesus said in Jn. 6:63 following what He said about eating His flesh, and drinking His blood.., "It is the Spirit who give life; the flesh profits nothing; the words I have spoken to you are spirit (spiritual) and are life."

Jesus said that He was speaking spiritually, and denies that the flesh He spoke of profits nothing. Cannibalism is not Christianity!

Jesus did not say, “My flesh is of no avail.” He said, “The flesh is of no avail.”

No one should believe he meant my flesh avails nothing because he just spent a good portion of this same discourse telling us that his flesh would be “given for the life of the world” (Jn 6:51, cf. 50-58)

 

[Candidus]

Jesus did not say, “My flesh is of no avail.” He said, “The flesh is of no avail.”

No one should believe he meant my flesh avails nothing because he just spent a good portion of this same discourse telling us that his flesh would be “given for the life of the world” (Jn 6:51, cf. 50-58)

The only "Flesh" in context, is the Flesh of Jesus!

 

[Candidus]

Hmmmm....Jesus told us what we must do to have eternal life and then he showed us how to do it. What more do you want from him?

MULTIPLE times in John 6 he made it clear he was not meaning that we must spiritually eat/drink him. That is a 500 year teaching. Paul taught OPPOSITE of that in 1 Corinthians 10:16. Presuming your theory is correct HOW do you eat/drink him spiritually?

In John 10:9, Jesus said... "I am the door..". I suppose that Jesus has hinges on His side and a doorknob for a bellybutton!

 

[Illuminator]

John 3:6 – Jesus often used the comparison of “spirit versus flesh” to teach about the necessity of possessing supernatural faith versus a natural understanding. In Mark 14:38 Jesus also uses the “spirit/flesh” comparison. The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. We must go beyond the natural to understand the supernatural. In 1 Cor. 2:14,3:3; Rom 8:5; and Gal. 5:17, Paul also uses the “spirit/flesh” comparison to teach that unspiritual people are not receiving the gift of faith. They are still “in the flesh.”

John 6:63 – Protestants often argue that Jesus’ use of the phrase “the spirit gives life” shows that Jesus was only speaking symbolically. However, Protestants must explain why there is not one place in Scripture where “spirit” means “symbolic.” As we have seen, the use of “spirit” relates to supernatural faith. What words are spirit and life?
THE EUCHARIST - Scripture Catholic

 

[bbyrd009]

How do you fulfill John 6:53?

well, the same way i ate from the fruit of the tree of knowledge, mary; spiritually, as i said? How is it you did not know I was not talking about bread see, no actual literal "food" involved at all?

There are some Protestants who believe what He said. Where should the Protestants on this forum go? Should they also leave, and join a catholic forum, since they believe what He said?

well, He also said No one has ever gone up to heaven but He Who came down from it Mary, why don't y'all believe that?
12If I have told you about things that happen on earth and you don't believe, how will you believe if I tell you about things of heaven?

So, i dunno about Catholicism, but i did have several pastors all pretty much thought they were the pope i guess, and while i wouldnt want you to take this wrong, yes imo most prots who are also in the Cult of Sol Invictus with you may as well be going to a Catholic congregation, yes; at least their buildings are still open most days
or they were anyway, dunno about now? Are masses still being held?
i currently tithe to a catholic charities, but i noticed last time that they are meeting me at the door alla sudden