BREAKING OF BREAD

[marksman]

Dear marksman,

Are you going to listen to your flesh, or are you going to listen to the Lord?

"Take and eat; this is my body."

Then he took a cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you,

for this is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins.

Peace!

And are you going to keep asking stupid questions or face reality?

 

[Stumpmaster]

I recall reading in the very Early Church Fathers that it was commonplace in those early days for people to incorporate bread and wine in their evening meals, in remembrance of the sacrifice of their Lord.

We do this in our ekklesia every time we assemble. Our gatherings include a meal which we begin by breaking bread in remembrance of Christ's body broken for us, and conclude with our drinking grape juice in remembrance of the blood of Christ shed for us for the remission of sins.

 

[Stan B]

We do this in our ekklesia every time we assemble. Our gatherings include a meal which we begin by breaking bread in remembrance of Christ's body broken for us, and conclude with our drinking grape juice in remembrance of the blood of Christ shed for us for the remission of sins.

What's this about drinking grape juice?? The Seder always specified not only wine, but four cups of it! And that is a lot! At the last supper, the Bible says nothing about drinking grape juice, because that would have been impossible at Passover. They drank wine!

 

[Philip James]

Trite comments don't cut it. How?

Hello marksman,

If Jesus can multiply loaves and fish to feed our bellies, He can certainly multiply Himself to feed our souls.

And far from trite, do you not believe that He can do this? He is God!

Peace be with you!

 

[Philip James]

And are you going to keep asking stupid questions or face reality?

Here I thought you wanted a rational discourse...

If God says something is, then it is!

Peace!

 

[Marymog]

When you use common sense the scripture does not mean what you think it means.

If it was his body and blood, not a symbol, where did he cut the piece of his body from? Where did he cut his body to get the blood out of it? No mention of this happening at all and without such events, he could not be holding up his flesh and his blood.

What it did say was he took bread which in all probability was cooked that day and he took the fourth cup of wine which had been sitting on the table all the time they were there. And do you know what, they would have seen him pick up the bread and the cup of wine so ergo, none of his body or his blood was offered to those present? Just plain old unleavened bread and plain old alcoholic wine from a CUP.

But then I do realise that common sense is not very common today.

Hmmmm.......soooo you are a miracle denier??? It truly is a mystery HOW God does it but I believe what He said....you don't. He said that we MUST eat His body in the Bread of Life Discourse and then He told us HOW to do it.

You don't believe either of those things that He said..... That does not make ANY sense at all let alone "common sense".

Mary

BTW....for the first 1500 years of Christianity they did use "common sense". They believed in the Real Presence.....Just like He the Apostles and first century Christians taught. It was only after the Reformation (revolution) when Christianity became divided did your "common sense" become popular.

 

[Marymog]

A funny thing happened to me on the way to the cathedral. Before I saw the light, I must have partaken in communion thousands of times in all sorts of churches including catholic and to this day I cannot ever remember eating the flesh of Jesus or drinking his blood.

But there is one thing that I do remember that in the absence of Jesus' actual body and blood I ate a bit of bread or biscuit and drank some wine from a mug/cup.

And I do remember asking a senior catholic what the blood of Jesus tasted like and he said wine. ergo.

Hi marksman,

Sooooo you lack faith. How does that stop what Jesus said from being true?

I can {kind of} understand if you do not believe that the communion to partook of was not His body/blood. But do you HONESTLY believe that the bread/wine that the Apostles partook of at The Last Supper was not what He said it was?

Curious Mary

PS....same question for you @Stan B since you seem to "like" marksmans post's.

 

[amadeus]

Dear marksman,

Are you going to listen to your flesh, or are you going to listen to the Lord?

"Take and eat; this is my body."

Then he took a cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you,

for this is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins.

Peace!

"And the Word was made flesh,...: John 1:14

So then when we eat the Word of God as when we read the scriptures or listen to a person speaking the Word of God are we not eating his flesh?

 

[Philip James]

"And the Word was made flesh,...: John 1:14

So then when we eat the Word of God as when we read the scriptures or listen to a person speaking the Word of God are we not eating his flesh?

Hello amadeus,

Far be it from me to discourage anyone from feeding on the words of God.

' for man does not live on bread alone, but on every word from the mouth of God'

But is this eating His flesh?

His flesh was born of Mary, suffered and died for us, rose again and now lives forever!

Jesus never held up scripture and said 'this is my body, take and eat, this my blood, take and drink'

What He did say was that scripture testified of Him, that we should go to Him to receive eternal life.

This has demonstrably been the Faith of the Church for 2000 years..

Brother, i think I understand your position, and God alone can judge our hearts..

But I know you said you had 'never seriously considered' returning to the Catholic church.

Perhaps it's time you did?

Peace be with you!

 

[Stan B]

Hi marksman,

I can {kind of} understand if you do not believe that the communion to partook of was not His body/blood. But do you HONESTLY believe that the bread/wine that the Apostles partook of at The Last Supper was not what He said it was?

Curious Mary

Obviously, if Jesus wanted them to eat His body, it was right there, ready for consumption, it that is what He talking about. The bread and wine were obviously symbolism. God has never advocated cannibalism!!

Drinking blood, forbidden many places in Scripture, was declared by David to be a pagan practice of worshipping other gods:

"As for the saints who are in the earth,
They are the majestic ones in whom is all my delight.
The sorrows of those who have bartered for another god will be multiplied;
I shall not pour out their drink offerings of blood,
Nor will I take their names upon my lips." Psalm 16:3-4

Roman Catholicism, is merely a continuation of pagan worship of the goddess, "Queen of Heaven" to whom the the pope kneels before her graven image!! This evil "Queen of Heaven" cult was known to prophet Jeremiah. They were so evil and beyond redemption that God instructed the prophet: "Do not pray for this people, and do not lift up cry or prayer for them, and do not intercede with Me; for I do not hear you." Jeremiah 7:18

"The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead dough to make cakes for the Queen of Heaven; and they pour out drink offerings to other gods in order to spite Me." Jeremiah 7:18

These round cakes, used in the Catholic Eucharist, are like the round cake in honour of her virgin born Sun God, Tamuz.

Roman Catholicism has carried on this "Queen of Heaven" cult under a new name, of the Ever-Virgin of the Immaculate Conception.

 

[Marymog]

Obviously, if Jesus wanted them to eat His body, it was right there, ready for consumption, it that is what He talking about. The bread and wine were obviously symbolism. God has never advocated cannibalism!!

Drinking blood, forbidden many places in Scripture, was declared by David to be a pagan practice of worshipping other gods:


......

Hi Stan,

1st....The bread and wine were NOT obviously symbolism since He said "This IS my body/blood..." he did not say a "symbol" of my body/blood so I am not sure why you added that word to Scripture.

2nd....Cannibalism is the actual eating of a persons body. That (cannibalism) is not was He was asking them to do.

3rd......How do you fulfill John 6:53?

Mary

 

[amadeus]

Hello amadeus,

Far be it from me to discourage anyone from feeding on the words of God.

' for man does not live on bread alone, but on every word from the mouth of God'

I am right with you thus far!

But is this eating His flesh?

I believe so. It is eating the right flesh that which is to be the "flesh" of the Body of Christ, that it may be quickened within as part of the "new man" by the quickening Holy Spirit. Some people eat the wrong flesh, their own or that of false prophets. Who are the false prophets? The ones bearing the wrong fruit. The right fruit comes from Spirit, the Holy Spirit in the new man.

His flesh was born of Mary, suffered and died for us, rose again and now lives forever!

Born of Mary? Yes, but what was it that became flesh as per the verse I quoted? Was it not the Word of God? The normal carnal child born to a woman is conceived by the seed of a carnal man. But it was not so with Jesus. He was conceived in her by the Holy Spirit. What is it that Holy Spirit wants to do in each of us? Is it not to give Life to us, us who have been dead to God?

"[God] Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the Spirit: for the letter killeth, but the Spirit giveth life." II Cor 3:6

What does the Spirit in us give Life to...? The natural or carnal body of a man eats the dead flesh of a cow and once it is fully digested the life blood of the man brings that flesh of the cow to carnal life as a part of us, does it not? Remember what it says in Leviticus?

"For the life of the flesh is in the blood:..." Lev 17:11
The "flesh" of the Body of Christ is the "letter" that kills unless and until it is quickened by the Spirit.

The Life of the new man, the man to be made truly in the image of God is, in the Spirit, the Holy Spirit that is. This is what connects the various parts of the Body giving them Life and maintaining them in Life in the Body of Christ of which Jesus is the Head. The Head is complete and ready. The Body is being readied. The only question for each of us is whether or not we will a part. Remember the dry bones in Ezekiel 37?

Jesus never held up scripture and said 'this is my body, take and eat, this my blood, take and drink'

What Jesus did do was speak in parables. Without the Holy Spirit, who is able to understand what Jesus was saying?

"And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand." Matt 13:10-13

Jesus was the Interpreter for his followers in Israel 2,000 years ago. Who is our Interpreter now? What was Paul's advice in this regard?

"But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God." I Cor 14:28

Jesus had given the answer as to who the Interpreter was here:

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26

The Comforter, the Holy Ghost [or Holy Spirit] is our Interpreter if we will allow it. Paul admonishes us:

"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19

Without the Spirit all that we read in the scriptures or hear even from a man of God is still dead to us. This is why many of Jesus' disciples "walked no more with him" [John 6:66]. "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?" John 6:52
They were unable to hear. They were unable to understand.

"For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them." Matt 13:15

What He did say was that scripture testified of Him, that we should go to Him to receive eternal life.

This has demonstrably been the Faith of the Church for 2000 years..

Demonstrably perhaps in those few who both received the Holy Spirit and then did not continuously quench the Spirit! There were always some, I believe, who followed Jesus as they were led by the Holy Spirit, but as you know many people including many designated as ministers followed rather the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life. But... this was not and is not a Catholic problem. This is a man problem as it has been since Adam and Eve disobeyed God. The problem continues even though God sent His Son to open up the Way that was closed. Few have taken advantage of the open Way. The Protestant groups have been just as willing to follow something other than Jesus.

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." Matt 7:3-14

Brother, i think I understand your position, and God alone can judge our hearts..

But I know you said you had 'never seriously considered' returning to the Catholic church.

Perhaps it's time you did?

I have been given no incentive or calling from God to do so. You are one Catholic who has let the Spirit work in you here at least some of the time, which is at least part of the reason I am even talking to you. Most of the others from what I have seen, like their non-Catholic opponents, have been more concerned with winning a debate or argument than in striving to do what Jesus did. That is what I see!

This is what Jesus said:

"... I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10:10

He expressed simply what was necessary to anyone with "ears to hear" and "eyes to see", but like the Pharisees of 2000 years ago, people today have twisted it and made it complicated... For men it is complicated when they try to understand and do it alone. For God it is simple and He can make it simple for someone submitted to Him.

When I was a young Catholic I was sincere in my service to God, but in spite of my good efforts and intentions, it did not work. God brought me out of there. I went through some other assemblies/churches/denominations and God called me out of them as well... Now I am waiting on the Lord!

Peace be with you!

 

[Philip James]

You are one Catholic who has let the Spirit work in you here at least some of the time, which is at least part of the reason I am even talking to you

I'll take that as a compliment.
Thank you.

Now I am waiting on the Lord!

A place we should all get in the habit of being..

If today you hear His voice, harden not your heart

Peace!

 

[marksman]

Hi marksman,

Sooooo you lack faith. How does that stop what Jesus said from being true?

I can {kind of} understand if you do not believe that the communion to partook of was not His body/blood. But do you HONESTLY believe that the bread/wine that the Apostles partook of at The Last Supper was not what He said it was?

Curious Mary

PS....same question for you @Stan B since you seem to "like" marksmans post's.

Do you honestly believe that the bread Jesus gave his disciples which he picked up from the table was actually a bit of flesh from his body and do you really believe that the wine he gave them to drink which was in a cup which he picked up from the table was actually blood which he had drained out of his body?

If you do, then you are welcome to your fairy stories.

 

[marksman]

Hmmmm.......soooo you are a miracle denier??? It truly is a mystery HOW God does it but I believe what He said....you don't. He said that we MUST eat His body in the Bread of Life Discourse and then He told us HOW to do it.

You don't believe either of those things that He said..... That does not make ANY sense at all let alone "common sense".

Mary

BTW....for the first 1500 years of Christianity they did use "common sense". They believed in the Real Presence.....Just like He the Apostles and first century Christians taught. It was only after the Reformation (revolution) when Christianity became divided did your "common sense" become popular.

You are welcome to your fairy stories and constant accusations if someone does not believe what you do. Get used to it as it happens all the time.

 

[marksman]

Here I thought you wanted a rational discourse...

If God says something is, then it is!

Peace!

I always up for rational discourse. When are you going to give me that and not fairy stories?

 

[marksman]

Hello marksman,

If Jesus can multiply loaves and fish to feed our bellies, He can certainly multiply Himself to feed our souls.

And far from trite, do you not believe that He can do this? He is God!

Peace be with you!

At the Passover, Jesus was not feeding our souls. He gave them a piece of bread from the bread that was on the table and he passed the fourth cup that was on the table that contained wine, not blood, and asked them to drink it, which they would have done anyway because that is what they did during the Passover. That is the simple reality of it all. If you want to believe in fairy stories be my guest.

 

[Stan B]

Hi Stan,

1st....The bread and wine were NOT obviously symbolism since He said "This IS my body/blood..." he did not say a "symbol" of my body/blood so I am not sure why you added that word to Scripture.

2nd....Cannibalism is the actual eating of a persons body. That (cannibalism) is not was He was asking them to do.

3rd......How do you fulfill John 6:53?

You could never convince me that it is the real blood and body of the Lord. Of course, a simple DNA test could confirm whether or not it is true. The Lord has risen in a transformed body. All of His blood has been shed. It is all gone! The thought that some priest can use some sort of hocus pocus to conjure up the real blood and body of Jesus sounds too much to me like a pagan practice God detests and detests. He also detests those who communicate with the dead:

9 “When you enter the land which the Lord your God gives you, you shall not learn to imitate the detestable things of those nations. 10 There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, 11 or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. 12 For whoever does these things is detestable to the Lord; and because of these detestable things the Lord your God will drive them out before you. 13 You shall be blameless before the Lord your God. 14 For those nations, which you shall dispossess, listen to those who practice witchcraft and to diviners, but as for you, the Lord your God has not allowed you to do so." Deut 18

 

[Marymog]

Do you honestly believe that the bread Jesus gave his disciples which he picked up from the table was actually a bit of flesh from his body and do you really believe that the wine he gave them to drink which was in a cup which he picked up from the table was actually blood which he had drained out of his body?

If you do, then you are welcome to your fairy stories.

He said it was sooo I believe Him. The real question is...why don’t you believe Him?

 

[Marymog]

You are welcome to your fairy stories and constant accusations if someone does not believe what you do. Get used to it as it happens all the time.

I don’t think He tells “fairy stories”. He tells the Truth.