Built On The Wrong Apostle
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BoL Neither I nor the Catechism preach a "works" salvation.
For YOU to say that we do is just another of our LIES . . .
We have instant coffee, instant potatoes, instant soup, but we DON'T HAVE INSTANT JUSTIFICATION. It's not found anywhere in the Bible, and NEVER taught by the historic Church. Assurance of salvation was invented by John Calvin; it denies perseverance to the end. Those who remain in Christ to the end, and die, will know if they have persevered, and not before.
Matt. 7:18 – Jesus says that sound trees bear good fruit. But there is no guarantee that a sound tree will stay sound. It could go rotten.
Matt. 7:21 – all those who say “Lord, Lord” on the last day will not be saved. They are judged by their evil deeds.
Matt. 12:30-32 – Jesus says that he who is not with Him is against Him, therefore (the Greek for “therefore” is “dia toutos” which means “through this”) blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. This means that failing to persevere in Jesus’ grace to the end is the unforgivable sin against the Spirit. We must persevere in faith to the end of our lives.
Matt. 22:14 – Jesus says many are called but few are chosen. This man, who was destined to grace, was at God’s banquet, but was cast out.
Luke 8:13 – Jesus teaches that some people receive the word with joy, but they have no root, believe for a while, and then fall away in temptation. They had the faith but they lost it.
Luke 12:42-46 – we can start out as a faithful and wise steward, then fall away and be assigned to a place with the unfaithful.
Luke 15:11-32 – in the parable of the prodigal son, we learn that we can be genuine sons of the Father, then leave home and die, then return and be described as “alive again.”
John 6:70-71 – Jesus chose or elected twelve, yet one of them, Judas, fell. Not all those predestined to grace persevere to the end.
John 15:1-10 – we can be in Jesus (a branch on the vine), and then if we don’t bear fruit, are cut off, wither up and die. Paul makes this absolutely clear in Rom. 11:20-23.
John 17:12 – we can be given to Jesus by the Father (predestined to grace) and yet not stay with Jesus, like Judas.
John 6:37 – those who continue to come to Jesus He won’t cast out. But it’s a continuous, ongoing action. We can leave Jesus and He will allow this because He respects our freewill.
John 6:39 – Jesus will not lose those the Father gives Him, but we can fall away, like Judas. God allows us not to persevere.
John 6:40 – everyone who sees the Son and believes means the person “continues” to believe. By continuing to believe, the person will persevere and will be raised up. Belief also includes obedience, which is more than an intellectual belief in God.
John 6:44 – Jesus says no one can come to me unless the Father “draws” him. This “drawing” is an ongoing process.
John 10:27-28 – when Jesus says, “no one shall snatch them out of my hands,” He does not mean we can’t leave His hands. We can choose to walk away from Him.
Rev. 2:4-5 – Jesus tells the Ephesians that they abandoned the love they had at first and have fallen. Jesus warns them to repent and do the works they did at first, otherwise He will remove their lampstand (their awaited place in heaven).
Rev. 3:4 – in Sardis, Jesus explained that some people received the white garment and soiled it with sin.
Rev. 3:5 – Jesus says whoever conquers will not be blotted out of the book of life (see Exodus 32:33). This means that we can be blotted out of the book of life. We can have salvation, and then lose salvation by our choice.
Rev. 3:11 – Jesus says to hold fast to what we have, so that no one may seize our crown. Jesus teaches us that we can have the crown of salvation and lose it.
Rev. 13:10; 14:12 – we are called from heaven for the endurance and faith of the saints, keeping the commandments and faith.
Rev. 21:7 – we must conquer in order to share in our heritage and become a true son of Jesus.
Rev. 22:19 – we can have a share in the tree of life in God’s holy city and yet have that share taken away from us.
I have more scriptures if you want them.
For YOU to say that we do is just another of our LIES . . .
Salvation by works apart from the grace of Christ IS A HERESY. I am beginning to think the myth is in your blood stream.
You have no assurance that every believer remains in Christ. That is the point you don't get.
We have instant coffee, instant potatoes, instant soup, but we DON'T HAVE INSTANT JUSTIFICATION. It's not found anywhere in the Bible, and NEVER taught by the historic Church. Assurance of salvation was invented by John Calvin; it denies perseverance to the end. Those who remain in Christ to the end, and die, will know if they have persevered, and not before.
Matt. 7:18 – Jesus says that sound trees bear good fruit. But there is no guarantee that a sound tree will stay sound. It could go rotten.
Matt. 7:21 – all those who say “Lord, Lord” on the last day will not be saved. They are judged by their evil deeds.
Matt. 12:30-32 – Jesus says that he who is not with Him is against Him, therefore (the Greek for “therefore” is “dia toutos” which means “through this”) blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. This means that failing to persevere in Jesus’ grace to the end is the unforgivable sin against the Spirit. We must persevere in faith to the end of our lives.
Matt. 22:14 – Jesus says many are called but few are chosen. This man, who was destined to grace, was at God’s banquet, but was cast out.
Luke 8:13 – Jesus teaches that some people receive the word with joy, but they have no root, believe for a while, and then fall away in temptation. They had the faith but they lost it.
Luke 12:42-46 – we can start out as a faithful and wise steward, then fall away and be assigned to a place with the unfaithful.
Luke 15:11-32 – in the parable of the prodigal son, we learn that we can be genuine sons of the Father, then leave home and die, then return and be described as “alive again.”
John 6:70-71 – Jesus chose or elected twelve, yet one of them, Judas, fell. Not all those predestined to grace persevere to the end.
John 15:1-10 – we can be in Jesus (a branch on the vine), and then if we don’t bear fruit, are cut off, wither up and die. Paul makes this absolutely clear in Rom. 11:20-23.
John 17:12 – we can be given to Jesus by the Father (predestined to grace) and yet not stay with Jesus, like Judas.
John 6:37 – those who continue to come to Jesus He won’t cast out. But it’s a continuous, ongoing action. We can leave Jesus and He will allow this because He respects our freewill.
John 6:39 – Jesus will not lose those the Father gives Him, but we can fall away, like Judas. God allows us not to persevere.
John 6:40 – everyone who sees the Son and believes means the person “continues” to believe. By continuing to believe, the person will persevere and will be raised up. Belief also includes obedience, which is more than an intellectual belief in God.
John 6:44 – Jesus says no one can come to me unless the Father “draws” him. This “drawing” is an ongoing process.
John 10:27-28 – when Jesus says, “no one shall snatch them out of my hands,” He does not mean we can’t leave His hands. We can choose to walk away from Him.
Rev. 2:4-5 – Jesus tells the Ephesians that they abandoned the love they had at first and have fallen. Jesus warns them to repent and do the works they did at first, otherwise He will remove their lampstand (their awaited place in heaven).
Rev. 3:4 – in Sardis, Jesus explained that some people received the white garment and soiled it with sin.
Rev. 3:5 – Jesus says whoever conquers will not be blotted out of the book of life (see Exodus 32:33). This means that we can be blotted out of the book of life. We can have salvation, and then lose salvation by our choice.
Rev. 3:11 – Jesus says to hold fast to what we have, so that no one may seize our crown. Jesus teaches us that we can have the crown of salvation and lose it.
Rev. 13:10; 14:12 – we are called from heaven for the endurance and faith of the saints, keeping the commandments and faith.
Rev. 21:7 – we must conquer in order to share in our heritage and become a true son of Jesus.
Rev. 22:19 – we can have a share in the tree of life in God’s holy city and yet have that share taken away from us.
I have more scriptures if you want them.
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BreadOfLife
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Sooooo, are you saying that you won't show me the teaching - or that you CAN'T??
The latter is the reason because it doesn't exist.
To teh religious yes, you have no assurance. and no faith in the finished work of the cross.
BOL, the following are definitions for works and grace..
Works salvation - Obeying, following commandments, doing religious stuff to keep your self saved (not falling away) is works salvation.
Grace salvation - Trusting and depending on His finished work to keep you saved is Grace salvation (perseverance of the saints)
The Gospel is so simple, yet we make it so hard. - God bless
BreadOfLife
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I am absolutely ASTONISHED at your public contradiction.
"not falling away" and "perseverance" are the SAME thing, Einstein - yet you falsely accuse US of a "works-based" salvation.
We trust FULLY in the finished work of Christ. We ALSO recognize the fact that unless we cooperate with that grace - we don't get any of it. You can't simply "accept" Christ into your life and live the rest of it in disobedience.
Being obedient is what YOU call "works" salvation.
It's what WE call "Biblical" . . .
John 3:36; Rom. 1:5, 6:17; 15:18; 16:26; 2 Cor. 9:13; 1 Thess. 1:3; 2 Thess. 1:11; 1 Peter 2:7-8; Heb. 5:9; cf. Rev. 3:10; Ex. 19:5 – this faith must also be an “obedient faith” and a “work of faith.” Obedience means persevering in good works to the end.
2 Cor. 10:15 – this faith must also increase as a result of our obedience, as Paul hopes for in this verse. Obedience is achieved not by faith alone, but by doing good works.
Rom. 2:13 – for it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. Paul is referring to the “law of Christ” in Gal.6:2, not “works of the law” in Rom. 3:20,28; Gal. 2:16; 3:2,5,10; and Eph. 2:8-9. The “law of Christ” is faith in Christ and works based on grace (God owes us nothing) and “works of the law” mean no faith in Christ, and legal works based on debt (God owes us something).
The “law of Christ” is faith in Christ and works based on grace (God owes us nothing)
Rom. 6:16 – obedience leads to righteousness. Obedience is a good “work,” an act of the will, which leads to righteousness before God.
2 Cor. 3:18 – Paul says that we are being changed into the Lord’s likeness from one degree of glory to another, by the power of the Spirit. This shows that justification is ongoing, and changes in degrees throughout one’s life, based upon one’s obedience of faith.
John 3:16 – justification is ongoing, not a one-time event. God so loved (past) the world, that He gave (past) His only Son, that whoever believes (ongoing) in Him may have eternal life. The word “believes” is “pisteuo” in Greek which necessarily includes obedience throughout one’s life. This is proved by 1 Peter 2:7-8 which also uses “pisteuo” (to obey) and “apitheo” (to disobey).
The same word “pisteuo” is used in many other verses about “believing in Christ” such as John 3:36; 5:24; Rom. 4:24; 10:9-10; cf. Rom. 1:5,16; 6:17; 16:26; 1 John 5:13 (often used by Protestants to support their “faith alone” theology). To “believe” means to “obey” throughout one’s life; it is not a one-time acceptance of Jesus as Savior.
John 3:36; Rom. 1:5, 6:17; 15:18; 16:26; 2 Cor. 9:13; 1 Thess. 1:3; 2 Thess. 1:11; 1 Peter 2:7-8; Heb. 5:9; cf. Rev. 3:10; Ex. 19:5 – this faith must also be an “obedient faith” and a “work of faith.” Obedience means persevering in good works to the end.
2 Cor. 10:15 – this faith must also increase as a result of our obedience, as Paul hopes for in this verse. Obedience is achieved not by faith alone, but by doing good works (based on grace).
Gal. 5:6 – thus, the faith that justifies us is “faith working through love,” not faith alone. Faith and love (manifested by works) are always connected. Faith (a process of thought) and love (an action) are never separated in the Scriptures. Cf. Eph. 3:17; 1 Thess. 3:6,12-13; 2 Thess. 1:3; 1 John 3:23; Rev. 2:4-5,19. Further, all faith (initial and perfected) are gratuitous gifts from God, and not earned or merited by any human action. God effects everything, both the willing and the achievement. But God also requires human action, which is necessary to perfect our faith.
James 2:17,26 – James clearly teaches that faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead. Works are a cause, not just an effect, of our justification because good works achieve and increase our justification before God. Scripture never says anything about “saving faith.” Protestants cannot show us from the Scriptures that “works” qualify the “faith” into saving faith. Instead, here and elsewhere, the Scriptures teach that justification is achieved only when “faith and works” act together. Scripture puts no qualifier on faith. Scripture also never says that faith “leads to works.” Faith is faith and works are works (James 2:18). They are distinct (mind and action), and yet must act together in order to receive God’s unmerited gift of justification.
James 2:19 – even the demons believe that Jesus is Lord. But they tremble. Faith is not enough. Works (based on grace) are also required.
2 Cor. 10:15 – this faith must also increase as a result of our obedience, as Paul hopes for in this verse. Obedience is achieved not by faith alone, but by doing good works.
Rom. 2:13 – for it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. Paul is referring to the “law of Christ” in Gal.6:2, not “works of the law” in Rom. 3:20,28; Gal. 2:16; 3:2,5,10; and Eph. 2:8-9. The “law of Christ” is faith in Christ and works based on grace (God owes us nothing) and “works of the law” mean no faith in Christ, and legal works based on debt (God owes us something).
The “law of Christ” is faith in Christ and works based on grace (God owes us nothing)
Rom. 6:16 – obedience leads to righteousness. Obedience is a good “work,” an act of the will, which leads to righteousness before God.
2 Cor. 3:18 – Paul says that we are being changed into the Lord’s likeness from one degree of glory to another, by the power of the Spirit. This shows that justification is ongoing, and changes in degrees throughout one’s life, based upon one’s obedience of faith.
John 3:16 – justification is ongoing, not a one-time event. God so loved (past) the world, that He gave (past) His only Son, that whoever believes (ongoing) in Him may have eternal life. The word “believes” is “pisteuo” in Greek which necessarily includes obedience throughout one’s life. This is proved by 1 Peter 2:7-8 which also uses “pisteuo” (to obey) and “apitheo” (to disobey).
The same word “pisteuo” is used in many other verses about “believing in Christ” such as John 3:36; 5:24; Rom. 4:24; 10:9-10; cf. Rom. 1:5,16; 6:17; 16:26; 1 John 5:13 (often used by Protestants to support their “faith alone” theology). To “believe” means to “obey” throughout one’s life; it is not a one-time acceptance of Jesus as Savior.
John 3:36; Rom. 1:5, 6:17; 15:18; 16:26; 2 Cor. 9:13; 1 Thess. 1:3; 2 Thess. 1:11; 1 Peter 2:7-8; Heb. 5:9; cf. Rev. 3:10; Ex. 19:5 – this faith must also be an “obedient faith” and a “work of faith.” Obedience means persevering in good works to the end.
2 Cor. 10:15 – this faith must also increase as a result of our obedience, as Paul hopes for in this verse. Obedience is achieved not by faith alone, but by doing good works (based on grace).
Gal. 5:6 – thus, the faith that justifies us is “faith working through love,” not faith alone. Faith and love (manifested by works) are always connected. Faith (a process of thought) and love (an action) are never separated in the Scriptures. Cf. Eph. 3:17; 1 Thess. 3:6,12-13; 2 Thess. 1:3; 1 John 3:23; Rev. 2:4-5,19. Further, all faith (initial and perfected) are gratuitous gifts from God, and not earned or merited by any human action. God effects everything, both the willing and the achievement. But God also requires human action, which is necessary to perfect our faith.
James 2:17,26 – James clearly teaches that faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead. Works are a cause, not just an effect, of our justification because good works achieve and increase our justification before God. Scripture never says anything about “saving faith.” Protestants cannot show us from the Scriptures that “works” qualify the “faith” into saving faith. Instead, here and elsewhere, the Scriptures teach that justification is achieved only when “faith and works” act together. Scripture puts no qualifier on faith. Scripture also never says that faith “leads to works.” Faith is faith and works are works (James 2:18). They are distinct (mind and action), and yet must act together in order to receive God’s unmerited gift of justification.
James 2:19 – even the demons believe that Jesus is Lord. But they tremble. Faith is not enough. Works (based on grace) are also required.
Protestants doing good works by feeding the hungry.
they are not "earning their salvation"
they are not "earning their salvation"
BOL, you preach works salvation because you add the words "if, but, however". IF we stop obeying we are lost forever and go to hell. That's false. Christ blood covers all sin, past present and future. Eternal security is not about you and your obedience, it's about what Jesus Christ already did FOR YOU on the cross. It is finished.
Trusting in the finished work of the cross is referring to sanctification, not keep your salvation secure. Accepting Christ and living in disobedience for the rest of your life doesn't exist. It's a lie from the devil, the spirit of the accuser. Rom 8:33, Rev 12:10.
No, being "obedient" before coming to faith in Christ is religion my friend and will not save you. Being "obedient" after coming to faith in Christ is sanctification and has nothing to do with losing salvation. God bless.
You are ignoring post #367 and working out your salvation by strutting your ego and mouthing off. Accusing BoL of "works salvation" is standard prot myth making. It also proves you can't read.
John 3:36; Rom. 1:5, 6:17; 15:18; 16:26; 2 Cor. 9:13; 1 Thess. 1:3; 2 Thess. 1:11; 1 Peter 2:7-8; Heb. 5:9; cf. Rev. 3:10; Ex. 19:5 – this faith must also be an “obedient faith” and a “work of faith.” Obedience means persevering in good works to the end.
This is contrary to your man made system. You said "obedience will not save you." This is a stupid non sequitur and BoL never suggested it did, by itself. This is why discussion with you is so frustrating.
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epostle1, there is no ego in Grace salvation. all glory goes to God. in regards to your scriptures, you should post one at a time instead of copy and pasting the same twenty scriptures over and over. - Heb
The same twenty scriptures that refutes your man made system? And that's why you ignore post #367? Scripture speaks of faith and obedience and you deny them because you are too proud to admit their truth. I have no idea why that is perceived as a threat.
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The threat is when you add hell to your belief.
God doesn't send born again believers to hell for disobedience.
Do you know what an accuser is?
No wonder why the antichrist spirit is so angry.
I have twenty scriptures too...
Neh 6:13 They were hoping to intimidate me and make me sin. Then they would be able to accuse and discredit me.
Job 1:6 One day the members of the heavenly court came to present themselves before the LORD, and the Accuser, Satan, came with them.
Psa 27:12 Do not let me fall into their hands. For they accuse me of things I've never done; with every breath they threaten me with violence.
Psa 31:18 Silence their lying lips— those proud and arrogant lips that accuse the godly.
Psa 35:11 Malicious witnesses testify against me. They accuse me of crimes I know nothing about.
Isa 50:8 He who vindicates me is near. Who then will bring charges against me? Let us face each other! Who is my accuser? Let him confront me!
Isa 54:17 But in that coming day no weapon turned against you will succeed. You will silence every voice raised up to accuse you. These benefits are enjoyed by the servants of the LORD; their vindication will come from me. I, the LORD, have spoken!
Jer 2:29 Why do you accuse me of doing wrong? You are the ones who have rebelled,” says the LORD.
Eze 22:9 People accuse others falsely and send them to their death. You are filled with idol worshipers and people who do obscene things.
Zec 3:1 Then the angel showed me Jeshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD. The Accuser, Satan, was there at the angel's right hand, making accusations against Jeshua.
Jhn 8:46 Which of you can truthfully accuse me of sin? And since I am telling you the truth, why don't you believe me?
Act 24:13 These men cannot prove the things they accuse me of doing.
Act 26:7 In fact, that is why the twelve tribes of Israel zealously worship God night and day, and they share the same hope I have. Yet, Your Majesty, they accuse me for having this hope!
Rom 2:15 They demonstrate that God's law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right.
Rom 8:33 Who dares accuse us whom God has chosen for his own? No one--for God himself has given us right standing with himself.
1Pe 2:12 Be careful to live properly among your unbelieving neighbors. Then even if they accuse you of doing wrong, they will see your honorable behavior, and they will give honor to God when he judges the world.
Jde 1:9 But even Michael, one of the mightiest of the angels, did not dare accuse the devil of blasphemy, but simply said, “The Lord rebuke you!” (This took place when Michael was arguing with the devil about Moses' body.)
Rev 12:10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Messiah. For the accuser of our brothers and sisters, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.
God bless.
Not if they persevere to the end. I could prove that with the same 20 scriptures 20 more times and you still won't get it.
You should use the quote feature instead of making things up.
From the top of the page, the discussion is about salvation, good works in grace, obedience, OSAS etc. Your scriptures are about accusations, which reminds me of the NEVER ENDING DRUM POUNDING FALSE ACCUSATIONS ABOUT THE HERESY OF WORKS SALVATION SEEN EVERY DAY. It's the only point you made that is close to the current topics.Neh 6:13 They were hoping to intimidate me and make me sin. Then they would be able to accuse and discredit me.
Job 1:6 One day the members of the heavenly court came to present themselves before the LORD, and the Accuser, Satan, came with them.
Psa 27:12 Do not let me fall into their hands. For they accuse me of things I've never done; with every breath they threaten me with violence.
Psa 31:18 Silence their lying lips— those proud and arrogant lips that accuse the godly.
Psa 35:11 Malicious witnesses testify against me. They accuse me of crimes I know nothing about.
Isa 50:8 He who vindicates me is near. Who then will bring charges against me? Let us face each other! Who is my accuser? Let him confront me!
Isa 54:17 But in that coming day no weapon turned against you will succeed. You will silence every voice raised up to accuse you. These benefits are enjoyed by the servants of the LORD; their vindication will come from me. I, the LORD, have spoken!
Jer 2:29 Why do you accuse me of doing wrong? You are the ones who have rebelled,” says the LORD.
Eze 22:9 People accuse others falsely and send them to their death. You are filled with idol worshipers and people who do obscene things.
Zec 3:1 Then the angel showed me Jeshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD. The Accuser, Satan, was there at the angel's right hand, making accusations against Jeshua.
Jhn 8:46 Which of you can truthfully accuse me of sin? And since I am telling you the truth, why don't you believe me?
Act 24:13 These men cannot prove the things they accuse me of doing.
Act 26:7 In fact, that is why the twelve tribes of Israel zealously worship God night and day, and they share the same hope I have. Yet, Your Majesty, they accuse me for having this hope!
Rom 2:15 They demonstrate that God's law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right.
Rom 8:33 Who dares accuse us whom God has chosen for his own? No one--for God himself has given us right standing with himself.
1Pe 2:12 Be careful to live properly among your unbelieving neighbors. Then even if they accuse you of doing wrong, they will see your honorable behavior, and they will give honor to God when he judges the world.
Jde 1:9 But even Michael, one of the mightiest of the angels, did not dare accuse the devil of blasphemy, but simply said, “The Lord rebuke you!” (This took place when Michael was arguing with the devil about Moses' body.)
Rev 12:10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Messiah. For the accuser of our brothers and sisters, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.
God bless.
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Not if they believe and confess, Rom 10:9.
I could prove accusations with the same 20 scriptures 20 more times and you still won't get it. You preach hell damnation to those who are no longer condemned in Christ. What's the difference in preaching that vs talking to yourself in a padded room.
Romans 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is LORD," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will instantly and permanently be saved.
It doesn't say that, Heb. It says:
Romans 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is LORD," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Future tense, not present tense.
Romans 5:3
Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance;
Romans 5:4
perseverance, character; and character, hope.
2 Thessalonians 1:4
Therefore, among God’s churches we boast about your perseverance and faith in all the persecutions and trials you are enduring.
2 Thessalonians 3:5
May the Lord direct your hearts into God’s love and Christ’s perseverance.
Hebrews 12:1
Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us,
James 1:3
because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance.
James 1:4
Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.
James 5:11
As you know, we count as blessed those who have persevered. You have heard of Job’s perseverance and have seen what the Lord finally brought about. The Lord is full of compassion and mercy.
2 Peter 1:6
and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness;
Revelation 2:2
I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked people, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false.
Revelation 2:19
I know your deeds, your love and faith, your service and perseverance, and that you are now doing more than you did at first.
Strong's Concordance
makrothumeó: to persevere, to be patient
Original Word: μακροθυμέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: makrothumeó
Phonetic Spelling: (mak-roth-oo-meh'-o)
Short Definition: I suffer long, have patience, am forbearing
Definition: I suffer long, have patience, am forbearing, perseverance.
Strong's Greek: 3114. μακροθυμέω (makrothumeó) -- to persevere, to be patient
"You preach hell damnation to those who are no longer condemned in Christ. "
That is a lie. I never said that. Those who persevere to the end are not condemned. How many times and how many scriptures does it take before you shed this false dichotomy? You keep repeating the same false accusation. Instant, permanent salvation in this life is not in scripture. It's a false man made tradition that was invented in the 16th century.
So far, you haven't produced a single verse that says we don't need to persevere.
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Ok, so wouldn't that make you OSAS? If we don't persevere to the end we gotta go somewhere. The opposite of heaven is hell.
No. Perseverance, clearly, emphatically, and repeatedly found in scripture, refutes OSAS, which is extrapolated from scripture because it's not in scripture.
I wouldn't say that. When the reformulators invented Justification by Faith Alone, they had to come up with all sorts of scriptural gymnastics to dismiss the reality of God's justice and mercy (purification after death). I don't think that topic belongs on this thread.
Some of us need final purification after death. We don't deserve hell, and we are not yet fit for heaven, but we are guaranteed heaven after purification. God is not so cruel as to condemn those who are not perfect. Sins "covered up", "imputed righteousness", "forensic righteousness" were invented by Martin Luther. He was mentally ill.
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