Built On The Wrong Apostle

[Ac28]

Provide Biblical proof that the catholic church has replaced or will replace Israel as God's chosen people..

 

[Truth7t7]

The only reason the RCC isn't still murdering non-Catholics today is because they can no longer get away with it.

100% correct, Rome lost it's strength in the reformation and those that joined together to oppose the blood driven institution.

Wikipedia: English Reformation was a series of events in 16th century England by which the Church of England broke away from the authority of the Pope and the Roman Catholic Church. These events were, in part, associated with the wider process of the European Protestant Reformation, a religious and political movement that affected the practice of Christianity across western and central Europe during this period. Many factors contributed to the process: the decline of feudalism and the rise of nationalism, the rise of the common law, the invention of the printing press and increased circulation of the Bible, and the transmission of new knowledge and ideas among scholars, the upper and middle classes and readers in general. However, the various phases of the English Reformation, which also covered Wales and Ireland, were largely driven by changes in government policy, to which public opinion gradually accommodated itself.

Wikipedia: Gunpowder Plot of 1605, in earlier centuries often called the Gunpowder Treason Plot or the Jesuit Treason, was a failed assassination attempt against King James I of England and VI of Scotland by a group of provincial English Catholics led by Robert Catesby.

His fellow plotters were John Wright, Thomas Wintour, Thomas Percy, Guy Fawkes, Robert Keyes, Thomas Bates, Robert Wintour, Christopher Wright, John Grant, Ambrose Rookwood, Sir Everard Digby and Francis Tresham. Fawkes, who had 10 years of military experience fighting in the Spanish Netherlands in the failed suppression of the Dutch Revolt, was given charge of the explosives.

The plot was revealed to the authorities in an anonymous letter sent to William Parker, 4th Baron Monteagle, on 26 October 1605. During a search of the House of Lords at about midnight on 4 November 1605, Fawkes was discovered guarding 36 barrels of gunpowder—enough to reduce the House of Lords to rubble—and arrested. Most of the conspirators fled from London as they learned of the plot's discovery, trying to enlist support along the way. Several made a stand against the pursuing Sheriff of Worcester and his men at Holbeche House; in the ensuing battle, Catesby was one of those shot and killed. At their trial on 27 January 1606, eight of the survivors, including Fawkes, were convicted and sentenced to be hanged, drawn and quartered.

 

[epostle1]

100% correct, Rome lost it's strength in the reformation and those that joined together to oppose the blood driven institution.

Wikipedia: English Reformation was a series of events in 16th century England by which the Church of England broke away from the authority of the Pope and the Roman Catholic Church. These events were, in part, associated with the wider process of the European Protestant Reformation, a religious and political movement that affected the practice of Christianity across western and central Europe during this period. Many factors contributed to the process: the decline of feudalism and the rise of nationalism, the rise of the common law, the invention of the printing press and increased circulation of the Bible, and the transmission of new knowledge and ideas among scholars, the upper and middle classes and readers in general. However, the various phases of the English Reformation, which also covered Wales and Ireland, were largely driven by changes in government policy, to which public opinion gradually accommodated itself.

Wikipedia: Gunpowder Plot of 1605, in earlier centuries often called the Gunpowder Treason Plot or the Jesuit Treason, was a failed assassination attempt against King James I of England and VI of Scotland by a group of provincial English Catholics led by Robert Catesby.

His fellow plotters were John Wright, Thomas Wintour, Thomas Percy, Guy Fawkes, Robert Keyes, Thomas Bates, Robert Wintour, Christopher Wright, John Grant, Ambrose Rookwood, Sir Everard Digby and Francis Tresham. Fawkes, who had 10 years of military experience fighting in the Spanish Netherlands in the failed suppression of the Dutch Revolt, was given charge of the explosives.

The plot was revealed to the authorities in an anonymous letter sent to William Parker, 4th Baron Monteagle, on 26 October 1605. During a search of the House of Lords at about midnight on 4 November 1605, Fawkes was discovered guarding 36 barrels of gunpowder—enough to reduce the House of Lords to rubble—and arrested. Most of the conspirators fled from London as they learned of the plot's discovery, trying to enlist support along the way. Several made a stand against the pursuing Sheriff of Worcester and his men at Holbeche House; in the ensuing battle, Catesby was one of those shot and killed. At their trial on 27 January 1606, eight of the survivors, including Fawkes, were convicted and sentenced to be hanged, drawn and quartered.

Robert Catesby, Guy Fawkes and other conspirators were not acting on behalf of the Church. They were acting on behalf of themselves. Good motives, wrong method. They were trying to put an end to the persecution of Catholics. They were tortured. Falkes slipped of the gallows and broke his neck.

Karl Marx was Jewish. He killed 70 million people. I don't see you mouthing off against Jews.

Drawn and quartered means tying arms and legs to 4 horses, and the body is ripped apart. Maybe you can find a pope or bishop that ordered such a gruesome execution. I can't.

"So it's not surprising that with his Act of Supremacy in 1534, Henry intended to keep England's religious practices largely as they were: Catholic. All he wanted to do was to change who was in charge of the church. Most elite members of society knuckled under or maintained silence, although even silence, as the case of Thomas More illustrates, could be costly.​

He was killed.

Born about 1553 in a leading Protestant family of York, Margaret Clitherow married a wealthy tradesman, John Clitherow, in 1571. Three years later, she became a Roman Catholic, although her husband remained Protestant. In March 1586, when she was in her early thirties, she was arrested for harboring Catholic priests. She refused to plead guilty or innocent, lest her children and husband be compelled to testify against her. The penalty for refusing to plead was to be crushed to death under nearly half a ton of weights. Even her Protestant neighbors respected her and refused to testify against her.

Why did Margaret Clitherow turn to the Catholic faith, especially in Elizabethan England? Not because of birth or indoctrination, nor because she was hoodwinked by superstitious, semi-pagan, idolatrous beliefs. For Margaret, the Church was an institution with historical continuity to the Apostles and the incarnate Jesus Christ:

"I am fully resolved in all things touching my faith, which I ground upon Jesus Christ, and by him I steadfastly believe to be saved, which faith I acknowledge to be the same that he left to his apostles, and they to their successors from time to time, and is taught in the Catholic Church through all Christendom, and promised to remain with her unto the world's end, and hell-gates shall not prevail against the same faith; for if an angel come from heaven, and preach any other doctrine than we have received, the Apostle biddeth us not believe him."

"Elizabeth . . . is on record for the burning of two Dutch Anabaptists in 1575 . . . Henry VIII . . . had a score of them burned on one day in 1535." (45:143)

John Stoddard gives an account of Henry VIII, who founded Anglicanism:

" . . . the murderer of two wives . . . and the executioner of many of the noblest Englishmen of the time, who had the conscience and the courage to oppose him. Among these were the venerable Bishop Fisher . . . and Sir Thomas More, one of the most distinguished men of his century . . .

"When Henry began his persecution, there were about 1,000 Dominican monks in Ireland, only four of whom survived when Elizabeth came to the throne thirty years later . . .

"Executions speedily began . . . At one time, . . . about 800 a year (55). Hallam [a Protestant] . . . says (56) that the revolting tortures and executions of Jesuit priests in the reign of Elizabeth were characterised by a 'savageness and bigotry, which I am very sure no scribe of the Inquisition could have surpassed' . . . The details of these atrocities . . . would form very unpleasant reading for Protestants, accustomed as they are to think that all religious persecution has been done by Catholics. As Newman says:

"'It is pleasanter (for them) to declaim against persecution, and to call the Inquisition a hell, than to consider their own devices and the work of their own hands.'" (92:131-2,135)
Stoddard chronicles further persecution in England - of the Dissenters. Under Elizabeth, Presbyterians, for example, were "branded, . . . imprisoned, banished, mutilated and even put to death. A few Anabaptists and Unitarians were burned alive." (92:205)

Anglican Bishops were silent accomplices and witnesses of much torture. (92:205-6)

"The proximate cause of that great revolution, which cost James (57) his crown, was the publication by the King of an edict of religious toleration! . . . The first and only time the Church of England has made war on the Crown, was when the Crown had declared its intention of tolerating . . . the rival religions of the country!" (58)
In Ireland, Bishops were executed by the English in 1578 (two), 1585 and 1611. In 1652 "an attempt was made to exterminate the entire Irish Catholic priesthood . . .

O’Hagan (afterwards Chief Justice) in his Essay on Irish History cites one of the edicts of that time:

• 
  "If any one shall know where a priest remains concealed, in caves, woods, or caverns, or if by any chance he should meet a priest on the highway, and not immediately take him into custody and present him before the next magistrate, such person is to be considered a traitor and an enemy of the Republic. He is accordingly to be cast into prison, flogged through the public streets and afterwards have his ears cut off. But should it appear that he kept up any correspondence or friendship with a priest, he is to suffer death."(127)

Professor Lecky , a Protestant Historian of British blood and ardent British sympathy, in the preface to his History of Ireland in the Eighteenth Century says:

"the slaughter of the Catholic Irishmen was looked upon as literally the slaughter of wild beasts. Not only men, but even women and children who fell into the hands of the English, were deliberately and systematically butchered. Bands of soldiers traversed great tracts of country, slaying every living thing they met." (127)
The Protestant Inquisition
We have doctrinal purity, we don't have administrative perfection. So it's not hard to dig up dirt. You need to stop your pathetic vendetta against the Catholic Church. The only thing you prove is your mental illness.

I would like to know the name of your church, if you have one, and if you have the guts to reveal it. You won't ask polite questions because you are too busy bashing a cardboard caricature.

Do you want to continue this childish rock throwing contest, or can we have a civilized discussion?

 

[epostle1]

Provide Biblical proof that the catholic church has replaced or will replace Israel as God's chosen people..

There is no proof because the Catholic Church has never wanted, no has any desire to replace Israel. Were do you get this crap from? The idiots on you tube?

 

[epostle1]

DECLARATION ON THE RELATION OF THE CHURCH TO THE JEWISH PEOPLE​

NOSTRA AETATE​

The Church keeps ever in mind the words of the Apostle about his kinsmen: "theirs is the sonship and the glory and the covenants and the law and the worship and the promises; theirs are the fathers and from them is the Christ according to the flesh" (Rom. 9:4-5), the Son of the Virgin Mary. She also recalls that the Apostles, the Church's main-stay and pillars, as well as most of the early disciples who proclaimed Christ's Gospel to the world, sprang from the Jewish people.

As Holy Scripture testifies, Jerusalem did not recognize the time of her visitation,(9) nor did the Jews in large number, accept the Gospel; indeed not a few opposed its spreading.(10) Nevertheless, God holds the Jews most dear for the sake of their Fathers; He does not repent of the gifts He makes or of the calls He issues-such is the witness of the Apostle.(11) In company with the Prophets and the same Apostle, the Church awaits that day, known to God alone, on which all peoples will address the Lord in a single voice and "serve him shoulder to shoulder" (Soph. 3:9).(12)

Since the spiritual patrimony common to Christians and Jews is thus so great, this sacred synod wants to foster and recommend that mutual understanding and respect which is the fruit, above all, of biblical and theological studies as well as of fraternal dialogues.

True, the Jewish authorities and those who followed their lead pressed for the death of Christ;(13) still, what happened in His passion cannot be charged against all the Jews, without distinction, then alive, nor against the Jews of today. Although the Church is the new people of God, the Jews should not be presented as rejected or accursed by God, as if this followed from the Holy Scriptures. All should see to it, then, that in catechetical work or in the preaching of the word of God they do not teach anything that does not conform to the truth of the Gospel and the spirit of Christ.

Furthermore, in her rejection of every persecution against any man, the Church, mindful of the patrimony she shares with the Jews and moved not by political reasons but by the Gospel's spiritual love, decries hatred, persecutions, displays of anti-Semitism, directed against Jews at any time and by anyone.

Besides, as the Church has always held and holds now, Christ underwent His passion and death freely, because of the sins of men and out of infinite love, in order that all may reach salvation. It is, therefore, the burden of the Church's preaching to proclaim the cross of Christ as the sign of God's all-embracing love and as the fountain from which every grace flows.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_...ts/vat-ii_decl_19651028_nostra-aetate_en.html

 

[BreadOfLife]

Catecha what??? Is this a religious term?

YOU posted your observances from the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
That's what "CCC" means in your posts, Einstein.

Unfortunately for YOU - you paraphrased incorrectly . . .

 

[Heb 13:8]

YOU posted your observances from the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
That's what "CCC" means in your posts, Einstein.

Unfortunately for YOU - you paraphrased incorrectly . . .

Ok, and the crow fly's north beyond Montana when the lizard sleeps at night under a brown rock.

 

[epostle1]

How to find things in the CCC.

Put a topic in the address bar, followed by "catechism" .va
For example, if you want to find out what the CC teaches about merit, key in the address bar "merit catechism .va" or Trinity, key in "trinity catechism .va" Leave out the quotation marks.
This should work with any topic.
Be sure to paste the URL into the forum so everyone can see the full context of the page. Posting snippets misses the point. Matt Slick abuses the catechism by using it incorrectly.
I don't recommend the CCC for inquirors. There are plenty of good apologetic sites that are not so technical. Such as www.catholic.com You will not turn into a zombie.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Ok, and the crow fly's north beyond Montana when the lizard sleeps at night under a brown rock.

Next time - don't misrepresent the Catechism or I'll be forced to expose you again . . .

 

[Truth7t7]

How to find things in the CCC.

Put a topic in the address bar, followed by "catechism" .va
For example, if you want to find out what the CC teaches about merit, key in the address bar "merit catechism .va" or Trinity, key in "trinity catechism .va" Leave out the quotation marks.
This should work with any topic.
Be sure to paste the URL into the forum so everyone can see the full context of the page. Posting snippets misses the point. Matt Slick abuses the catechism by using it incorrectly.
I don't recommend the CCC for inquirors. There are plenty of good apologetic sites that are not so technical. Such as www.catholic.com You will not turn into a zombie.

You mean www.pope.com?

 

[Heb 13:8]

Next time - don't misrepresent the Catechism or I'll be forced to expose you again . . .

BOL, I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[epostle1]

You mean www.pope.com?

I was precise in my instructions on finding things in the CCC. Have you been told you don't follow instructions very well? Not www.pope.com. Try "pope catechism .va" like I said.
You get this:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p4.htm
It's on the top of the list.
If you don't understand what "misrepresent" means, you have my sympathy.

 

[BreadOfLife]

BOL, I have no idea what you're talking about.

Ahhh, okay - here's a refresher . . .

In post #297 - YOU stated that the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) indicates that the forgiveness of sins is based on works:

7.)Forgiveness of sins, salvation, is by faith and works (CCC 2036 CCC 2080 2068)

All I did was expose your lie and put you in your place . . .

 

[Heb 13:8]

Ahhh, okay - here's a refresher . . .

In post #297 - YOU stated that the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) indicates that the forgiveness of sins is based on works:

All I did was expose your lie and put you in your place . . .

Ok, but CCC believes salvation is based on works, and salvation is through the forgiveness of sins at the cross only.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Ok, but CCC believes salvation is based on works, and salvation is through the forgiveness of sins at the cross only.

Show me where the Catechism of the Catholic Church says that salvation is based on works.
If you can't do that - then you need to retract your statement . . .

 

[Heb 13:8]

Show me where the Catechism of the Catholic Church says that salvation is based on works.
If you can't do that - then you need to retract your statement . . .

Oh ok, so you're OSAS?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Oh ok, so you're OSAS?

Why would you make that ridiculous claim??

YOU made a dishonest statement about the Catechism and I am holding you accountable.
How does that make me OSAS??

 

[Heb 13:8]

Why would you make that ridiculous claim??

YOU made a dishonest statement about the Catechism and I am holding you accountable.
How does that make me OSAS??

That's what you are and what you preach. Denying that is dishonest.

 

[BreadOfLife]

That's what you are and what you preach. Denying that is dishonest.

And I'M not the one who made the false claim.
YOU did - and now you're back-pedaling because you got caught . . .

 

[Heb 13:8]

And I'M not the one who made the false claim.
YOU did - and now you're back-pedaling because you got caught . . .

I would say being honest with yourself is the first step to Rom 10:9.