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Calvinism is a Cult

Discussion in 'Christian Apologetics Forum' started by CoreIssue, Feb 8, 2019.

  1. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    Free will is considered heresy in church history, and Augustinianism (Calvinism) is orthodoxy. Council of Ephesus 431.
     
  2. Anthony D'Arienzo

    Anthony D'Arienzo Active Member

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    Your subjective %is of no consequence.
    I have not solicited the approval of anyone.
    I am staying faithful to scripture
    .Truth belongs to God.
     
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  3. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

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    And are you willing to respect those people who believe differently than you, just as you want them to respect you?
    Or hold your own pitchfork to continue the "_____ is a cult" and other such slander attitudes?
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  4. Anthony D'Arienzo

    Anthony D'Arienzo Active Member

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    I have not disrespected anyone on here
     
  5. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

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    I getting very tired of having my questions evaded. Again:

    And are you willing to respect those people who believe differently than you, just as you want them to respect you?
    Or hold your own pitchfork to continue the "_____ is a cult" and other such slander attitudes?
     
  6. Mjh29

    Mjh29 Well-Known Member

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    I would say that there is a difference between a cult and heresy. A cult is just a group of people with a specific religious persuasion, which I would say even Christians fall under, not at all in a bad way just strictly definitionally. A heresy however is a belief that goes directly against what is orthodox for a religious system, and for Christianity, that would be Arminianism, which is provably against the orthodox views of the church. So personaly, I am a Calvinist and will answer in my opinion; Am I willing to put up with other who disagree and hear them out? Absolutely. That is 99% of what I do on this site. Are people who disagree with me a cult? No, they are still of the Christian persuasion, even if unorthodox. Are some of them heresy? Well, if they go against the orthodox teachings of the church and of the Scriptures, I would say yes, by definition they are. I hope this helps.
     
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  7. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

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    Yes it does. And I've seen through our conversations here that you personally are indeed willing to respect those that disagree with you. You're also willing to openly discuss a variety of thing. I have enjoyed our chats.

    I am still awaiting @Anthony D'Arienzo 's personal answer to this same questions though, as he is his own person.
     
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  8. Mjh29

    Mjh29 Well-Known Member

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    Well thank you for the compliment, and I would like to say that I as well enjoy our discussions.
     
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  9. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Well-Known Member

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    I fully confess that I missed it! I admit that I read the OP and replied to it. Which, you know, is not fantastic thread ettiquete, I know, but sometimes, when you're short of time, that's all the "board time" you get!

    Yes...that is clearly the OUTCOME of predestination. There is little debate about what happens if one is 'chosen before the foundation of the world'....we are, as you say, conformed to be like him. But this does not discount the fact that God clearly chooses us and not some.
    The path of logic is sound: the bible tells us all men are sinful and do not seek after God. It also tells us that faith, even saving faith, is a gift from God. If all things, therefore, are from God, so we may not boast, how then, are we to say it is of our choosing?


    What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
    You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for gloryRomans 9:14–23

    I struggle to see what is hard about this passage, or how it can be seen for anything other than what it is. Basically put: "who are you, to answer back to God?" If he chooses to harden some, to show his wrath and make his power known in such a manner, does he NOT have this very right, regardless of what you...a created being...thinks? We are God's created things, and it is ridiculous that we should think we can tell him how to act, think, behave and conform to a moral code.
     
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  10. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    It’s a pride thing???
     
  11. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

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    The following statements are both completely off-base:
    - "people don't believe in Calvinism because they are prideful"
    - "people believe in Calvinism because they are prideful"

    The two following statements are completely accurate:
    - "people who believe in Calvinism because they see that as being a loving God"
    - "people who don't believe in Calvinism because they see that as being a loving God"

    The motivation is the same for both groups of people. The differences lie in interpretation of scripture and the resultant understandings.
     
  12. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Well-Known Member

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    Well...I'm not sure the article, on this particular point, was attempting to compare man's "goodness" with God...becuase, well...obviously that's a no-brainer! I think it was just attempting to point out that not all people are Hitlers. We know non-Christian people who are 'decent' people...they do kind things for other people, they have the capacity to love, be selfless, patient, that sort of thing. I think the article was attempting to point out that when it talks about the 'depravity of man' it's honing in on the ability of man to seek God, rather than the capacity to have an innate sense of right and wrong, which the bible tells us God has instilled in most, as a gift of common grace.

    Well said!!
     
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  13. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Well-Known Member

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    Huh...thanks...I'll have to give it a try!
     
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  14. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Well-Known Member

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    Uhh...you might need to get a little more specific, sorry. Which is a pride thing?
     
  15. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    Not true
     
  16. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    The following statement is true people believe in Calvinism because the Bible supports it.
     
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  17. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    I apologize, people who argue free will are full of pride;they undermine the power of the Holy Spirit and promote their false humility. People who accept the teachings of Christ suffer humiliation and acknowledge they have no role in their reconciliation to God
     
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  18. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    It’s a gift
     
  19. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that is one side of the message. But the book of Exodus shows us the other side of the message. God only hardens the hearts of those who repeatedly and deliberately reject Him and His Word. That is what Pharaoh did. He chose Hell by mocking and blaspheming God and disdaining Moses and Aaron. Indeed, God pleads will all humanity and says: Today, if you will hear His voice, HARDEN NOT YOUR HEARTS.

    The whole tenor of the Bible is that God does not want even one sinner to perish, but that all should come to repentance.
     
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  20. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

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    @Waiting on him, I acknowledge that you feel that the Bible supports Calvinism and you view such a portrayal of God as being genuinely loving & gives salvation as a gift, and the other position to be false
    But that doesn't change the fact that non-Calvinists feel that the Bible supports non-Calvinism and such a portrayal of God as being genuinely loving & gives salvation as a gift, and the other position to be false.

    Both camps here have the same motivations and we got to acknowledge that just to be factual.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
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