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Calvinism

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by Stephen100, Mar 29, 2013.

  1. Stephen100

    Stephen100 New Member

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    I personally believe that Calvinism is a heresy, but it is becoming widely accepted by many Christians around the world. What do you think? Are you a Calvinist?
     
  2. williemac

    williemac New Member

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    In my opinion, the term is a little too broad to accurately describe all of the varying beliefs that are under its umbrella, some of which are just fine. The category that best sums up those things that I disagree with is called hyper-Calvinism. But I understand where you are coming from in this and my own description would be that it is in error. Heresy is a strong word, and although it may be acurate to use it, it will build walls. And if we want to debate the subject, walls are counter productive. I will be away a few days, so am looking foreward to checking in on this one when I return. Blessings, Howie
     
  3. HeRoseFromTheDead

    HeRoseFromTheDead Not So Advanced Member

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    Maybe you could start out with what you believe is heretical.
     
  4. Stephen100

    Stephen100 New Member

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    I think it is obvious. I think the most disgusting thing about Calvinism is the idea that God chooses who goes to heaven and who goes to hell. Calvinists will say that people send themselves to hell by rejecting Jesus Christ, yet they also say that God has predestined them not to believe. I find this to be a disgusting heresy.
     
  5. biggandyy

    biggandyy I am here to help...

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    Too bad, there is great truth in that teaching.
     
  6. JB_Reformed Baptist

    JB_Reformed Baptist Many are called but few are chosen.

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    Maybe it's confusing, more than disgusting?
     
  7. Stephen100

    Stephen100 New Member

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    I would say it's both confusing and disgusting.
     
  8. Justin Mangonel

    Justin Mangonel New Member

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    Dear S,

    I think that confusion is the main facet of Calvinism as well as the
    trinity. Both have logical fallacies inherent in their theology.
    Historically, Calvinism worked out by Calvin himself was a rather strict and
    dull affair. That should have been the end of it but like Marxism
    people seem to keep making the mistake of thinking it has some merit even after
    it has failed miserablely time after time. Legalism by any other name
    still smells bad.

    Personally, I think that those who believe in Calvinism simply demonstrate
    that they have had limited direct contact with God. No one, in my
    opinion, who has met God and gotten to know Him would ever be deceived into
    believing such a doctrine. Our Father is simply not that way.

    Calvinistic predestination obviates our free will. Free will is necessary
    for choice. Without choice we cannot sin
    for sin is a choice. Perhaps Pharaoh was
    a vessel to dishonor but he had a choice…a profound choice…at least ten of
    them.

    It is like making a doctrine out of infinity. It cannot be done for
    the concept cannot be fully understood because we, as finite beings, cannot understand it in the
    first place. Predestination is like that
    for we cannot understand how someone can both be predestined and have free will
    at the same time.

    Blessings,

    Justin
     
    meshak likes this.
  9. ScottAU

    ScottAU New Member

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    Reformed Theology can basically be summed up in the TULIP of Calvinism.


    T Total Depravity

    U Unconditional Election

    L Limited Atonement

    I Irresistible Grace

    P Perseverance of the Saints



    Total Depravity is basically summed up with...



    Article 6 Westminster Confession of Faith
    http://www.reformed.org/documents/wcf_with_proofs/




    Total depravity teaches that the reason people sin is because they were BORN SINNERS and are thus DISABLED from making the virtuous choice. Thus sin is not a criminal action due to an exercise of free agency in CHOOSING to do wrong, rather it is a SYMPTOM of a birth state.

    Total Depravity COMPLETELY REDEFINES REPENTANCE from being "the change of mind that produces the forsaking of sin" to a "confession of sinfulness." Thus under Reformed Theology one approaches God STILL IN REBELLION.

    Total Depravity also teaches that a regenerated Christian exists in an ongoing state of sinfulness and thus is a denial of the possibility of heart purity in this life. This is why Reformed teachers TWIST the Scriptures and teach that passages like Romans 7:14-25, 1Joh 1:8, 1Tim 1:15, Isa 64:6, etc. support an ongoing state of wickedness/sinfulness in a Christian. The doctrine of Total Depravity infiltrated and found wide acceptance in Christian orthodoxy through the
    prolific influence of Augustine in the Fourth Century. Reformed theologians like Martin Luther and John Calvin held Augustine in very
    high regard and used his material prolifically in formulating their theologies.


    Total Depravity is an extremely dangerous teaching for it redefines the nature of man and thus redefines the entire Gospel message
    by redefining repentance, faith, grace, salvation and sin.


    We are not born sinners, nor are we born dead. Spiritual death is a result of sin.

    Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

    Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
    Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
    Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

    Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
    Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

    The First Death

    Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.


    Unconditional Election is a symptom of the doctrine of Total Depravity. Due to the doctrine of Total Depravity teaching that man is DISABLED from the virtuous choice man therefore cannot seek God unless God Irresistibly Draws him. Thus those who are granted Irresistible Grace are Unconditionally Elected for there is NO CONDITION that a man can meet to merit election. Thus the Reformed doctrine of Predestination teaches that God unconditionally picks those who are to be saved and then draws them with irresistible grace. This doctrine also has its root in the writings of Augustine.

    The Limited Atonement teaches that Jesus only died for the elect and in principle this is due to Penal Substitution theology. The Penal Substitution view of the atonement was invented by Reformers who took that Satisfaction view of Anselm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satisfaction_theory_of_atonement ) and added a Penal aspect to it. The Anselmian view teaches that Christ died to satisfy divine justice in order that God could forgive sin without casting dispersion on His justice. The Moral Government view of people like Charles Finney is rooted in the Anselmian view.

    The Reformers (many of who were lawyers) took the Satisfaction Model and added an aspect of judicial punishment to it and thus taught that Jesus literally bore the full wrath of God as a substitute for the sinner. This is where the phrase, "Jesus paid for your sins" comes from. The Bible does not actually teach that "Jesus
    paid for your sins," instead it teaches that "we were bought with a price" and the context of that is "ransom" but that is another subject.

    If Jesus was literally punished for sins as a substitute it necessitates that punishment cannot be due for those sins anymore which in turn gives support (in the Reformed view) to the doctrine of "unconditional eternal security" or "once saved always saved." Now if Jesus served as a wrath substitute for those who would be saved, by necessity He could not have served as a wrath substitute for those who would be lost.To imply that Jesus died for those who are to perish would imply double jeopardy or the same sins being punished twice, thus Reformed doctrine if forced to teach that Jesus ONLY died for the elect hence the Limited Atonement.

    I already discussed Irresistible Grace so I'll move onto Perseverance of the Saints. Perseverance of the Saints is the teaching that due to God irresistibly drawing the unconditioned elect they will by necessity persevere in the faith.




    The whole premise of Reformed Theology is established on a perverted view of the Sovereignty of God. In their minds the sovereignty of God negates the free agency of man. The truth is that God is the sovereign judge who has a sovereign standard but He has granted all men the free gift of free moral agency. Thus we can CHOOSE whom we will serve. We can resist the light of God and walk our own way and become enslaved to our base desires, or we can yield to the light of God and walk in His Spirit.

    Reformed Theology consists of layer upon layer of error. Examining it is like peeling an onion, in the middle of the onion is the doctrine of Total Depravity which teaches that man is unable to make the choice to serve God. This inability has to be offset by the grace of God before an individual can turn to God. This is why they preach a SAVED IN SINS message.

    The Bible teaches that the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men teaching them how they should go (Tit 2:11-12). Men have the choice as to whether to submit to God or to rebel against God. Jesus Christ is the light that lights all men who come into the world (Joh 1:9). There is no such thing as inability and there is no such thing as being born in a state of total depravity. Men can become totally depraved by willfully suppressing the truth in unrighteousness whereby God will
    give them over to a reprobate mind (Rom 1:20-32) but men are not born that way.

    Reformed theology is Satanic to the core because it utterly perverts the method by which sinners can approach God to be reconciled. Reformed theology perverts repentance and faith at the fundamental level convincing a sinner that they cannot forsake their sin (thus negating a genuine repentance) which leads to the conclusion and that they can actually be reconciled to God whilst still engaged in the known commission of sin. Thus they come to a false notion of salvation (based off thinking they have been cloaked by the imputed righteous of Christ and that Jesus paid their fine) while in reality they remain dead in their sins for they are still in rebellion to God.

    Satan does not want people to repent and yield to God thus his attack is at the root of repentance and faith.

    The false notion of salvation inculcated under this delusion inoculates the sinner very effectually against the real truth, thus the mind becomes firmly closed to the real truth of God. You'll clearly see this evidenced on these forums by many people who refuse to acknowledge certain passages in the Scripture which completely refute their
    position.


    The Bible says depart from iniquity. The Reformed Theologian teaches that YOU CANNOT.
     
    Angelina likes this.
  10. IAmAWitness

    IAmAWitness New Member

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    This Calvinist god some of you "Christians" serve is nothing more than a demon revealed in the Bible as an opponent of the Living God. Your god wants to damn people and not give them a choice in the matter because he "foreknows" and "predestinates" some to damnation. You almost have to be possessed to believe such nonsense and slander the true God with these evil attributes.
     
  11. dripping yellow madness

    dripping yellow madness New Member

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    wow! some of you are so terrible in what you say!!! I dont know for sure what all calvin tought but to read the hate iamawitness and steph1000 has wrote I sure am glad you aren't my teachers! haha!
     
  12. meshak

    meshak New Member

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    excellent insight.

    John Calvin was vicious man. It is just flabbergasting that why so many trinity believers follow his teachings. Jesus says we know them by their fruit.

    The truth is not in vicious men or churches.
     
  13. dripping yellow madness

    dripping yellow madness New Member

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    how was he viscous? by the reading here I cant tell the difference! haha!
     
  14. Axehead

    Axehead New Member

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    DrippingYellow. Educate yourself on John Calvin. Look up Michael Servetus. Read Scott's post #9.
     
  15. dripping yellow madness

    dripping yellow madness New Member

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    wasnt servitus a criminal in the eyes of rome and the protestent church anyway"? If he was a criminal alreadyu why do so many get their panties all in a knot about Calvin? didnt John calvin plead for servutus to change his mind since he did not want to burn him at the steak?
     
  16. meshak

    meshak New Member

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    Are you Calvinist?

    Nope, he was faithful servant of Jesus. He did not follow man-made doctrine of trinity. That's why he got killed by RCC with cruel way. This is why I call trinity churches are militant churches.
     
  17. dripping yellow madness

    dripping yellow madness New Member

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    whatever! haha!
     
  18. Rex

    Rex New Member

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    Here's a last tip madness, give careful thought to what ever you type online. Eating your own words are on the menu If you don't
     
  19. dripping yellow madness

    dripping yellow madness New Member

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    1 thing I learned from y daddy before he died, he tiold me if I dont mean it I dont say it. I dont type very well yet, but I know what I mean too say and say what I mean. haha!
     
  20. Rex

    Rex New Member

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    Lets just say schizophrenia is a common online christian illness,
    After a while it become apparent that the handling of scripture by some is not consistent but instead convenient

    The solution to the problem by some is to do away with it "scripture". Of course my understanding of this type is that they have no eyes or ears.
     
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