Wormwood,
Thanks for your replies which I would like to address.
Reformed Theology clearly teaches that man is "unable" to obey or even seek out God due to being in a Totally Depraved state, the depravity (wickedness) of man is TOTAL in their system of theology and this doctrine is the bedrock of everything they teach (the T in TULIP).
Due to this perceived state of Total Depravity it is the "Irresistible Grace" of God which is granted to the "Unconditionally Elected" which OFFSETS this inability of man to seek/obey God. Due to the notion that this grace is "irresistible" and thus is EFFECTUAL then necessity of Perseverance of the Saints is evident, a doctrine which has morphed into what is today often termed, "Once Saved Always Saved."
Under this doctrine the "Christian" must be "saved first" IN their disabled and depraved state. Thus the "choice" of man as a "response" to God has NOTHING to do with the outworking of salvation.
If man is in a DISABLED state then he is NOT RESPONSIBLE for anything he does because he simply is not able to make the virtuous choice UNLESS it is offset by some from of "enabling" grace. Reformed Theology teaches that 'Common Grace" is given to all men, by which the Totally Depraved can do some perceived good, yet the "Irresistible Grace" which is effectual to salvation is only given to the preordained Elect. These doctrines completely refute any notion of genuine free will or exercise of free agency on the past of man, to the reformed mind such a notion is an infringement on the Sovereignty of Omnipotence of God.
The Bible clearly teaches that the "grace of God
that brings salvation has appeared to ALL MEN teaching us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts and to live soberly, uprightly and godly in the present age" (Tit 2:11-12). Men have the CHOICE as to whether they will yield or rebel against the appeal of that grace.
The problem with the accusation of "Pelagianism" is that the charge of "denying grace" is rooted in the Reformed/Augustinian notion of an "enabling grace" offsetting the "natural disability of man" when in the Bible the grace of God is available to all men and thus men were NEVER disabled in the first place.
I am not a disciple of Pelagius but I do agree with his defence of the "ability of man," Pelagius NEVER denied grace, he denied Augustine's "perversion of grace." Pelagius has been much maligned in history by people who have NEVER actually read his writings and simply believed the reports of others.
I am a follower of Christ who called all men everywhere to repent and to follow Him. It is a very simple message.
The Arminian's are in error due to their adherence of "inborn sin" yet they differ to the Reformed view in that they teach that man can in fact choose to yield or reject the grace of God (which they call Prevenient Grace or the grace which comes before). In the Arminian theological system as "Second Work of Grace" is needed to cleanse the "stain which remains" in order to bring about "Entire Sanctification." Thus, just like Reformed Theology, they are in denial of the heart being purged of iniquity through repentance and one being cleansed of "all sin" by the blood of Jesus Christ. They oppose heart purity.
Thus both systems make an allowance for a continuation in rebellion, albeit the rebellion is LESS than before. This is why if you ask Pastors today if there are any sin or sins which must cease BEFORE forgiveness can be granted the vast majority will answer with an emphatic NO.
When Jesus taught about it being impossible to serve two masters he was not simply speaking about money, the term is MAMMON and it is a word which alludes to "material things/wealth and gain." Just prior to making that statement Jesus clearly taught that the minds eye must be SINGLE in order that the body be full of light, thus one cannot be double-minded in regards to the things of this world and the things of God. That is clearly the context of that passage and this notion is in perfect harmony with the rest of the Bible.
Mat 6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
Mat 6:20 But
lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
Mat 6:21 For
where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
Mat 6:22
The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
Mat 6:23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
Mat 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
Mat 6:25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on.
Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
1Jn 2:15
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
1Jn 2:17
And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him,
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
The eye must be single.
Modern Theology has totally made a mess of the above teaching of Scripture due to the underlying doctrine of Original Sin and its associated inability. It IS dualism simply because the "deeds done in the body" are disconnected from the "state of the soul." Thus they teach (especially on the Reformed side of the church) that one has been washed in the blood of Christ and thus been reconciled to God and yet remains the Roman's Wretch, the chief of sinners (in action), and is in a perpetual state of sinfulness (hence 1Joh 1:8).
John made it emphatically clear that the "deeds done in the body" MUST MATCH "that which has taken place in the heart."
1Jn 3:7 Little children,
let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
In other words there is NO SUCH THING as a "Forensic" or "Positional" righteousness. Righteousness is what WE DO and in order to produce the fruit of righteousness we must be plugged into God (ie. in submission to that leading of the Spirit).
The difference between the Spirit and the flesh is very simple. The flesh is the "base man" and is purely "passion" whilst the Spirit is that which is meant to RULE OVER the "base man." Hence sin has a desire for us (through the base passions of the flesh) yet God calls us to rule over it by the Spirit.
My understanding is that the Holy Spirit existed and was freely available in the Old Testament, it had just not been manifested in conjunction with the outworking of the supernatural signs we see evidenced in the book of Acts, which was something God did in order to bear witness to the Gospel of the New Covenant as it was introduced to the world.
Psa 51:9 Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
Psa 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and
take not thy holy spirit from me.
Psa 51:12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
The major difference under the Old Covenant is that their sins had not yet been purged by the blood thus they had their hope on the future offering. They were also subject to a nationalism for God was doing the groundwork of establishing a nation which would be the launching platform for the Word being made flesh. The New Covenant is of the Spirit and thus supercedes that of the letter.
I hope the above clarifies a few things because I see in your words a lot of harmony with my contentions. I think much of where we differ is in understanding as well as in confusion about the logical fallacies of modern theology. Today there exists a vast and firmly entrenched system of error which is leading many people astray,
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
WM,
I think that Scott doesn't believe each believer has abiding within an intrinsic reality of no condemnation through the baptism into Christ's death, which enables each believer to progressively put to death the works of the flesh through the new law of life.
Instead, a position of no condemnation is achieved through approaching GOD in repentance and not sinning.
It's a very subtle twist because the latter is most definitely the path one walks into sanctification. The distinction is that in the former the reality of no condemnation produces godly fruit through faith; in the latter, the position of no condemnation is achieved through an act of the will.
Subtle twist, big difference.
There is only no condemnation if you have been baptised into the death of Christ through REPENTANCE whereby the old man has been crucified with the associated passions and desires, hence the body of sin is destroyed, and henceforth you do not yield to sin.
If one is still yielding to sin as their master then they are not IN Christ, they have not crucified their old man, and thus they are still under condemnation.
The lying teachers today deny that the old man is crucified with the passions and desires. Instead they teach that the death of the old man is a gradual process thus the convert remains in a double-minded state serving two masters.
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Satan teaches...
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman,
Ye shall not surely die:
That lie is preached far and wide today.
1Jn 3:7 Little children,
let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Co 6:9 Know ye not that
the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that
they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5:6
Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
Rev 22:11
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me,
to give every man according as his work shall be.