Can the dead communicate with the living?

[amadeus]

Great post, let me continue along that line. I think the symbols of fire and salt help explain it too.

Suppose we are like olive trees and able to produce oil. We would still need a spark of the Divine Fire if we want to be "creatures of fire" which help shine the Light of God. Once we receive that fire, then it is up to us to act like trees in the dirt -- growing olives so we don't run out of oil. It is said in places that God is Light and in others that He is a fire. The same is said of angels. Which is it? It is both, I think.

The Light comes down, and the flames go up. "Did not our heart burn within us" is always a good place to be, since the human heart is still on fire, returning "something" to God in the form of praise or glory. The saint can also give Light to the world.

Indeed, Jesus left this world of men, but we who are left are to be the Light to others that Jesus was!

"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are" John 17:11

"Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid." Matt 5:14

Now of course, physical salt cannot lose its savor, so let's not be naive and think Jesus was confused about that. But spiritual salt can lose it savor. The human heart is almost like a crystal of salt -- and ideally it is soft and malleable in a way physical salt isn't. It too has fire within it -- it is like a fiery stone. Such is the altar of God -- a stone from Heaven itself. If it has lost its savor, it is hard and brittle and dead. Just one Divine Spark can make it alive again if the Word is received properly.

And then compare also some uses of natural salt here:

1) Flavor
2) Preservative
3) Healing

Of course, there are saints who can speak the Living Word of God. When they preach the Gospel, it is with the intention of "Let there be Light." When they speak, it becomes so; and the heart ready to receive Light receives it, and the heart starts the process of being redeemed -- and bit by bit, the old heart (like brittle clay) is shattered and removed to be replaced by the "new heart." It is a miracle to me.

"Sow to yourselves in righteousness, reap in mercy; break up your fallow ground: for it is time to seek the LORD, till he come and rain righteousness upon you." Hosea 10:12

To be sure, everyone has received Light from Jesus himself -- everyone born into this world does. But the ways of this world can tempt children as they grow up to let that Light go out, and they are seduced into thinking they need to act like ravening beasts at times because it's a dog-eat-dog world. They don't want to become ravening beasts, but they fear they won't survive unless they do. The "Good News" as I see it is that God will protect us all if we don't fall prey to the fears of this world. There is no reason to betray self and God.

If our Light is not encouraged and increased, it will most certainly go out and be taken away leaving us in a most absolute darkness:

"For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath." Matt 13:12

The saint who preaches the Gospel is giving that sinner what he always wanted all along. He always wanted to behave lovingly. He never wanted to be something he felt ashamed of. Yes, it is safe to return to that state of innocence -- becoming like a little child spiritually, wanting to love and to be loved. Will such a person who lost his own light by being deceived fall for the same trick from the Dark Side again? Maybe a few, but I doubt many would. They know what they lost when they were deceived the first time. Why do that again?

Every sinner is hungry and thirsty and everyone will eat and drink as he can when he can... but what does it take to satisfy so that he never thirst again? Remember Jesus answer to the Samaritan woman at the well? Then again, too many look for the loaves and the fishes instead the "Bread of Life". Sometimes, people bearing the label "Christian" seem not to know the difference...

 

[Taken]

Hello Giuliano,

We appear to have differing understanding concerning what the soul is. I believe that it is the whole person energised by life. When the person dies, the soul is also dead, for the whole person is devoid of life. It is the 'breath of life' (or spirit) that goes back to God Who gave it. There is no life for the whole person until it is energised by life once again at the resurrection, then it will be once again 'a living soul'.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Hi Chris- You and I also disagree.

In Brief:

Gen 2:
[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,

One thing Revealed accomplished ^.

and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;

A second thing Revealed accomplished ^.

and man became a living soul. ^

A third thing Revealed accomplished. ^

1)What came Out of the Dust, returns to Dust. A Formed, Body.

2) What Came from God...is Gods Life, He shall do with as He pleases. Soul/ Breath. (Hint...Gods Life Never Dies).

3) Man became Alive...
* two life's IN a MAN...
LIFE of God, in a soul, in a man.
LIFE From Gods hand of Creation (the Formed Body)...BLOOD.

* Body's LIFE is blood.
Gen 9:5
[5] ... your blood of your lives...

* Souls ...all belong to God
Ezek 18:
[4] ...all souls are mine...

* LIFE IN a Soul IS Gods Breath.
* Gods Life is Gods.
John 14:
[6] I am ...life:

Yes...
a Formed Body, with its Blood Life- AND
a Soul, with Gods Life...
IS called by The "Name" of ONE individual man.
(Pronouns are applicable... my body, my soul, his body, his soul, etc. ALL apply to One Individual man.)

A man CAN Kill "his Life", or an other man's "LIFE"...
But a man can NOT kill, a soul, or the LIFE within the soul.

Matt 10:
[28] And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul...

Luke.12
[4] And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.

God Puts Life IN "Vessels."
LIFE (blood) in a Formed body - "vessel"
LIFE (Gods Breath) in a "Soul" - "vessel"
LIFE (Gods Spirit) in a "Heart" - "Vessel"

* It is ONLY the Formed BODY that comes out of the Dust of the Earth and its BLOOD LIFE is sustained BY the minerals, elements of the Earth.
That Body must Die and Return to Earth.

* The Soul did Not come from the Earth, nor did the LIFE within the Soul come From the Earth.
That Living Soul Must (depart/ leave a dying Body).
That Living Soul shall be escorted (by Angel's) to Heaven..."or" SENT to hell...regardless of where; those LIVING souls are all in waiting to Return to their Risen Body's and Stand before the Judge and Receive Sentencing.

Restored (Saved) Living Souls are in Heaven (AKA Paradise) are at rest, in peace, in Comfort, with the Lord God, sustained BY the Tree of Life.
Unrestored (unsaved) Living souls are in Hell, in Utter discomfort, not at peace, separated from the Lord God, and Sustained With Gods Life...(that they Can Not die, and must suffer the Consequences of Rejecting the Lord God).

The LIFE of the spirit...is a third LIFE IN Man, which can be discussed...but expands the perimeter of this spectfic topic (regarding the body and soul).

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[amadeus]

yet you cannot Quote a "Return" hmm

dunno about the resurrection part, but the Bible does say "Samuel," when that would have been the place to deny that eh
also, the religious professors (apparently to a man) choose to deny that it was Samuel, so that should be considered imo

Must we know that it was Samuel or some imposter in order to receive God's message to us? God certainly speaks through evil men [high priest who conspired to kill Jesus gave a prophecy from God] and "lower animals" [Balaam's donkey] as well as through legitimate prophets. What is God saying to us when we are reading or hearing someone else read what is written? Is that what we should be hearing, if we are His sheep? Or are we goats? What answers do we want? What answers do we need? God knows, but do we?

 

[Giuliano]

Hello Giuliano,

Scripture tells us that the breath of life is what animates both man and beast. (e.g., Genesis 7:15)

God explains the process in the creation of man, we are not told that detail in relation to the rest of creation.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Yes, everything that breathes has soul. But what made Adam special? What happened when God breathed into his nostrils and he became a "living soul"? All souls are alive in one way. That means to me that while the animals were alive and had souls, Adam became alive in another way and thus his soul was alive in a way the animals' weren't.

The disciples were already alive (in one way) when Jesus breathed on them. Why did he do that?

John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

I think Jesus was doing to them the same thing God did to Adam. The disciples were alive in one way, and Jesus made them alive in another -- their souls which had been mortal received the Holy Spirit which made them "living souls." Jesus said that those who receive him would never die.

I wouldn't connect body and soul so closely.

 

[Giuliano]

Immortality is given at the second coming at which time is the Resurrection of the just. Until then people are dead/sleep in their graves. Sleep of death. The death of wrath for unrepentant sinners comes after their Resurrection ( Resurrection to damnation) and execution of sentence 1000 years later. They are not suffering in hell now, nor are the righteous in heaven now.

That means all the people in the church of Corinth slept. Paul told them not all would. And Jesus said that those who believe on him would never die.

 

[Enoch111]

Must we know that it was Samuel or some imposter in order to receive God's message to us?

We must absolutely know it was Samuel who appeared to Saul from Sheol.

If the Bible is mistaken in this respect, then it may be mistaken in other critical respects. But if Samuel wrote 1 Samuel by divine inspiration, he was writing about matters which would occur after his death (some claim that Nathan and Gad completed his book but that is not exactly what is stated in Scripture). Therefore he was writing prophetically, and there is no question that it is Samuel who wrote 1 & 2 Samuel (which is only one book in Hebrew, called "the book of Samuel the seer" in the Bible).

Now the acts of David the king, first and last, behold, they are written in the book of Samuel the seer, and in the book of Nathan the prophet, and in the book of Gad the seer... (1 Chronicles 29:29)

 

[Waiting on him]

'And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;
and man became a living soul.'
(Gen 2:7)

Hello Giuliano,

We appear to have differing understanding concerning what the soul is. I believe that it is the whole person energised by life. When the person dies, the soul is also dead, for the whole person is devoid of life. It is the 'breath of life' (or spirit) that goes back to God Who gave it. There is no life for the whole person until it is energised by life once again at the resurrection, then it will be once again 'a living soul'.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

John 20:22 KJV
[22] And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
The breath of God.

 

[Waiting on him]

The wind blows where it chooses.

 

[Waiting on him]

Jesus realized they had no life in them, so He illustrates what is about to take place at Pentecost.

I Am the way and the life, says The Lord.

 

[Giuliano]

Jesus realized they had no life in them, so He illustrates what is about to take place at Pentecost.

I Am the way and the life, says The Lord.

I am not sure what to make it, but sometimes I think of him breathing on them as the beginning of a process. Babies automatically know how to breath, but maybe spiritual babies need time before they can breath the Holy Spirit fully. Maybe they need to "make room" in newly growing spiritual lungs. So I think of Pentecost as the culmination of what Jesus started when he breathed on them. Acts uses a word that gets my attention, "fully."

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

I asked myself why is the word "fully" used? Why doesn't it read, "And when the day of Pentecost was come"? Had Pentecost been coming? Yes, I think so. I think it started coming when Jesus breathed on the disciples; and when they were in the Upper Room with others, the others also received the blessing.

 

[Waiting on him]

I am not sure what to make it, but sometimes I think of him breathing on them as the beginning of a process. Babies automatically know how to breath, but maybe spiritual babies need time before they can breath the Holy Spirit fully. Maybe they need to "make room" in newly growing spiritual lungs. So I think of Pentecost as the culmination of what Jesus started when he breathed on them. Acts uses a word that gets my attention, "fully."

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

I asked myself why is the word "fully" used? Why doesn't it read, "And when the day of Pentecost was come"? Had Pentecost been coming? Yes, I think so. I think it started coming when Jesus breathed on the disciples; and when they were in the Upper Room with others, the others also received the blessing.

I’ve heard my entire life, as to how everyone born receives the breath of life, I’m seriously beginning to question this.

 

[Waiting on him]

Matthew 23:27 KJV
[27] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
This in my opinion is Jesus speaking to the dead.

 

[Giuliano]

Matthew 23:27 KJV
[27] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
This in my opinion is Jesus speaking to the dead.

You know, that thought never occurred to me, but I think you are right. Thanks for that insight. Maybe if they could have believed on him, they would have come alive.

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

 

[Waiting on him]

You know, that thought never occurred to me, but I think you are right. Thanks for that insight. Maybe if they could have believed on him, they would have come alive.

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

As @amadeus posted earlier, the living walk and communicate with the dead daily.

it’s the difference in night and day.

 

[charity]

Hi Chris- You and I also disagree.

In Brief:

Gen 2:
[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,

One thing Revealed accomplished ^.

and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;

A second thing Revealed accomplished ^.

and man became a living soul. ^

A third thing Revealed accomplished. ^

1)What came Out of the Dust, returns to Dust. A Formed, Body.

2) What Came from God...is Gods Life, He shall do with as He pleases. Soul/ Breath. (Hint...Gods Life Never Dies).

3) Man became Alive...
* two life's IN a MAN...
LIFE of God, in a soul, in a man.
LIFE From Gods hand of Creation (the Formed Body)...BLOOD.

* Body's LIFE is blood.
Gen 9:5
[5] ... your blood of your lives...

* Souls ...all belong to God
Ezek 18:
[4] ...all souls are mine...

* LIFE IN a Soul IS Gods Breath.
* Gods Life is Gods.
John 14:
[6] I am ...life:

Yes...
a Formed Body, with its Blood Life- AND
a Soul, with Gods Life...
IS called by The "Name" of ONE individual man.
(Pronouns are applicable... my body, my soul, his body, his soul, etc. ALL apply to One Individual man.)

A man CAN Kill "his Life", or an other man's "LIFE"...
But a man can NOT kill, a soul, or the LIFE within the soul.

Matt 10:
[28] And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul...

Luke.12
[4] And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.

God Puts Life IN "Vessels."
LIFE (blood) in a Formed body - "vessel"
LIFE (Gods Breath) in a "Soul" - "vessel"
LIFE (Gods Spirit) in a "Heart" - "Vessel"

* It is ONLY the Formed BODY that comes out of the Dust of the Earth and its BLOOD LIFE is sustained BY the minerals, elements of the Earth.
That Body must Die and Return to Earth.

* The Soul did Not come from the Earth, nor did the LIFE within the Soul come From the Earth.
That Living Soul Must (depart/ leave a dying Body).
That Living Soul shall be escorted (by Angel's) to Heaven..."or" SENT to hell...regardless of where; those LIVING souls are all in waiting to Return to their Risen Body's and Stand before the Judge and Receive Sentencing.

Restored (Saved) Living Souls are in Heaven (AKA Paradise) are at rest, in peace, in Comfort, with the Lord God, sustained BY the Tree of Life.
Unrestored (unsaved) Living souls are in Hell, in Utter discomfort, not at peace, separated from the Lord God, and Sustained With Gods Life...(that they Can Not die, and must suffer the Consequences of Rejecting the Lord God).

The LIFE of the spirit...is a third LIFE IN Man, which can be discussed...but expands the perimeter of this spectfic topic (regarding the body and soul).

Glory to God,
Taken

'For the life of the flesh is in the blood:
and I have given it to you upon the altar
to make an atonement for your souls:
for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.'
(Lev 17:11)

Hello @Taken

Yes, we do disagree as to what the soul is.

The life is in the blood, as the verse above declares, for it oxygenates the body.

* Genesis 2:7 explains the 'soul' so clearly:-

'And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;
and man became a living soul.' ​

* Or as Elihu said so beautifully in Job 33:4 :-

'The Spirit of God hath made me,
and the breath of the Almighty
hath given me life.' ​

* The breath of life, at the death of the body goes back to God Who gave it, and the man no longer is a living soul, for he is no longer living.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[charity]

John 20:22 KJV
[22] And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
The breath of God.

' ... And when He had said this,
He breathed on them,
and saith unto them,
Receive ye the Holy Ghost: ... '
(John 20:22)

Hello @Waiting on him,

Thank you for drawing my attention to this little verse, here the risen Christ equips His disciples for the commission He gave them in the previous verse by the receiving of the Holy Ghost. This is something more than the breath of life, it is empowerment.

With love in Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[amadeus]

We must absolutely know it was Samuel who appeared to Saul from Sheol.

If the Bible is mistaken in this respect, then it may be mistaken in other critical respects. But if Samuel wrote 1 Samuel by divine inspiration, he was writing about matters which would occur after his death (some claim that Nathan and Gad completed his book but that is not exactly what is stated in Scripture). Therefore he was writing prophetically, and there is no question that it is Samuel who wrote 1 & 2 Samuel (which is only one book in Hebrew, called "the book of Samuel the seer" in the Bible).

Now the acts of David the king, first and last, behold, they are written in the book of Samuel the seer, and in the book of Nathan the prophet, and in the book of Gad the seer... (1 Chronicles 29:29)

I appreciate your input, but my belief that God inspired some man/men to write things down is not in jeopardy because I cannot say definitely which man/men wrote it all down or even whether it was really Samuel or some imposter that appeared. Similarly some may see a problem with Moses writing the first five books of scripture in which he describes his own end. What is our faith after all?

What I see is that God has a message or messages for us. I am not looking for apparent errors in the scripture for their own sake even though some may say or believe that they see them. I am waiting to hear from God when hearing is needed. He knows what we need! If what we want differs should we not ask God to help us where help is needed?

 

[Truman]

.....
There are many who become restless when they cannot know the definite outcome of affairs. They cannot endure uncertainty, and in their impatience they refuse to wait to see the salvation of God. Apprehended evils drive them nearly distracted. They give way to their rebellious feelings, and run hither and thither in passionate grief, seeking intelligence concerning that which has not been revealed. If they would but trust in God, and watch unto prayer, they would find divine consolation. Their spirit would be calmed by communion with God. The weary and the heavy-laden would find rest unto their souls if they would only go to Jesus; but when they neglect the means that God has ordained for their comfort, and resort to other sources, hoping to learn what God has withheld, they commit the error of Saul, and thereby gain only a knowledge of evil.............."

That's it

The word says it was Samuel. Be that as it may, when I hear grieving relatives say they've talked with their deceased I know they have been duped by deceiving spirits, aka the spirits of dead Nephilim. Necromancy is strictly forbidden by God. Shalom.

 

[Taken]

'
Yes, we do disagree as to what the soul is.

* Genesis 2:7 explains the 'soul' so clearly:-

'And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;
and man became a living soul.' ​

* The breath of life, at the death of the body goes back to God Who gave it, and the man no longer is a living soul, for he is no longer living.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Luke 16: 19-31

 

[quietthinker]

Luke 16: 19-31

You are mistaken, Taken. The Hebrews were story tellers. Many stories were told to make a point. Some were true ie, historical, other stories were known myths. Our use of language today does similar. The language used in certain situations is not intended to be understood literally. Here is an example,....a man went to pick blackberries but found they were red and knew they were green. I think this is an over the top obvious one......Here is another, a mother says to her baby, 'I love you so much I could eat you up'
Is she saying she is a cannibal?...of course not.....and we all understand what she means.

The story of Jesus in Luke 16:19-31 was a known myth and understood to be so. He told it to make a point not to give a dissertation on the state of the dead. His point being, if you don't believe the scriptures neither will you believe if a miracle is done. He says so clearly in verse 31.

To take this story and attempt to make it say the dead are not dead is playing the Devil's game....it is reiterating his lie to Eve 'thou shalt not surely die'