CAN WE FALL AWAY ?

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Helen

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JMHO--- It has been decided, finally! OSAS means not thing to me any more---YAY! Who even cares? Either way-God is our Creator. And our ALL. So freeing to not even look at this thread again!!! Thank you Jesus this bothered me for a long time...He just now freed ANY NEED to know either way. I Love Him and through The Holy Spirit, I will strive to obey His 2 commandments. His mercy's are new everyday! Amen?

That is a good place to be.
Does either way impact our initial personal salvation? NO!!

It is some big hairy deal to some. :rolleyes:
I feel just the same about the rapture...I have a strong opinion....but I sure don't let it worry me.

The more I read the Site, the more I
realize that we are discussing a whole lot of private opinions. LOL
 
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Nancy

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That is a good place to be.
Does either way impact our initial personal salvation? NO!!

It is some big hairy deal to some. :rolleyes:
I feel just the same about the rapture...I have a strong opinion....but I sure don't let it worry me.

The more I read the Site, the more I
realize that we are discussing a whole lot of private opinions. LOL
"big hairy deal " <----Ahahaha...I will have to use that one :)
"That is a good place to be." <---- Amen...I like to look at it as being in His Peace that surpasses all understanding. That's How I know a thing is of God ♥
 
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Taken

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You wrote a very long post with no scripture.
I asked for scriptural support to YOUR long post.
I'm not interested in your opinion,,,only in scriptural facts.

I guess you over looked the Scripture I did provide...and now you ask for more....why should I bother?
 

twinc

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That is a good place to be.
Does either way impact our initial personal salvation? NO!!

It is some big hairy deal to some. :rolleyes:
I feel just the same about the rapture...I have a strong opinion....but I sure don't let it worry me.

The more I read the Site, the more I
realize that we are discussing a whole lot of private opinions. LOL


so the glad tidings of great joy/good news is wasted and meaningless and not a cause for rejoicing and praising and thanking - twinc
 
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7angels

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i read this sermon today and it is really very interesting. it teaches that Jesus came and died so we may have eternal life quoting john 3:16. traditionally this scripture taught that Jesus died for our sins so we would not perish. it just so happens that our sins were a barrier that stood between us and this everlasting life. it is true that Jesus died for our sins and it is true that if we believe in Jesus that we will not perish but there is much more to the gospel than that. john 17:3 states that this is life eternal that they may know the only true God and Jesus Christ. this verse says that knowing the Father and Jesus is eternal life. many think eternal life is living forever but that is a misconception since we are going to live forever no matter what. the body decays but the spirit lives forever whether that will be in heaven or the lake of fire. john 17:3 shows that eternal life is not given to everyone. also the word 'know' is used throughout scripture to describe the most personal and intimate relationship that you can have. example gen 4:1.

the real purpose of salvation is not living forever as great as that will be but to have an intimate personal relationship with our Lord God. when we only present salvation as something that deals with just spiritual things will only benefit us in the future is not helping people but causing a disservice to the gospel. there are many people depressed, living in poverty, dealing with strife, rejection, hurt, failed marriages and ect who put off salvation as something that only deals with the future and thus put off salvation as a thing for the future because they are too busy trying to survive today. God wants us to have eternal life and an abundant life john 10:10. thus it is possible to fall away depending upon your relationship with God.

there are more scriptures if needed i can post.

God bless
 
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Heb 13:8

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Well dear Heb, I replied to your post without stating that you must not be a believer, as you have done to me by the verses you've posted. We're disussing theology here, not personal salvation of either you or me.

How did I speak of works? This is what you read into what JESUS said...so I guess HE must have spoken of works.

Perhaps YOU should reread the N.T. When you're done, tell me how many times Jesus spoke about being born from above, and then tell me how many times Jesus spoke about HOW we are to become members of the Kingdom of God here on earth.

Blessings.

Well, it's just a part of the non-osas crowd, it's spiritual blindness. They preach works and don't even realize it. Trying to keep themselves out of hell through obedience, it's a false representation of the blood of Christ and His unconditional love for the Saint. They make obedience a salvation thing, when in reality it's a sanctification thing. I could go on and on. Hey let me know how it turns out, saving yourself through obedience. God bless.

"It's more of a spirit of pride. Human pride opposes salvation being a free gift. Human pride wants to deserve salvation. You would think that knowing that you can be saved without having to live up to God's standard of perfection would bring relief and hope and it does, but for some, they prefer to slog it out, trying to be good enough to deserve Heaven. Human pride wants to appeal to its own merit, and hard work as if salvation is something to win or to earn.

To human pride, there is something somewhat romantic about the spiritual quest, of seasons of fasting and self-abasement and ascetism and enlightenment, something about a journey in search of truth. That is more far more desirable to those ruled by their pride than the truth that we are nothing but worms, and miserable wretches who deserve nothing but God's contempt. Human pride doesn't take into account how offensive and repugnant our sin is to God. We have lost sight of that. We don't realize what we look like to God.

So human pride wants to, at best, make salvation a synthesis of God's grace and human effort. Human effort is either placed at the front or at the end. We either must work to get saved or we have to work to stay saved. Either way, at some point, salvation still depends on us from a pride standpoint. To those ruled by pride, salvation can never actually be "free." That is the spirit behind the anti-OSAS mentality."

- shiloh357 www(dot)worthychristianforums(dot)com
 
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Taken

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GodsGrace;


Taken Said.. QUOTE and RESPONSE to your lack of understanding and accusation my basis is merely opinions.

Scripture teaches TO DIVIDE THE WORD OF TRUTH. This is notifying you; The WORD itself is PURE TRUTH....however the WORD DOES NOT APPLY THE SAME TO ALL PEOPLE.

There IS A DIVISION IN Gods WORD.

What a MAN chooses SHALL APPLY TO HIM, DOES NOT MEAN IT APPLYS THE SAME to all other men.

Jesus CAME to EFFECT the DIVISION.

Luke 12:51
Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth?
I tell you NAY;
But rather DIVISION.

There is your claimed nonexistant Scripture About Jesus notifying you of a DIVISION effected BY Him!

Every man CAN Elect and Choose which SIDE of the DIVISION he Wants to STAND.

Seriously you did not learn, Men Choose God, Choose Christ ... or Not?

1 Thes 1:4
Joshua 24:15

Jews for Centuries have Believed IN thee Heavenly God,

Seriously, you are unfamiliar of the historical Jews and THEIR Jewish God? Go read the OT for yourself and discover WHOM God Gave His Word to, and WHOM were the believers.

and have HOPE of Him. Their Messiah, appearing TO THEM, TO SAVE THEM.

Seriously, you are unfamiliar the Jews WAIT for Gods Messiah?

He CAME, He Appeared.....YET, He did not Come AS THEY EXPECTED and INVISIONED...
So, many Jews did not, do not ACCEPT Jesus as THEIR MESSIAH.

John 1:11
John 9:9

That does not prohibit them FROM continuing to Believe IN God, or Their Messiah!

Jesus DID NOT DESTROY THE LAW. And many Jews reject Jesus as their Messiah and Continue following God and their Jewish Law.

Matt 5:17

The Gentiles WHO traditionally DID NOT Believe IN the Jewish God, Began trusting the Testimony of the Jewish Messiah having arrived....and then ALSO began believing IN the Jewish God.

Read of Pauls own adventures among the Gentiles.

These Beliefs are ALL INDIVIDUAL mens elections and choices of what they TRUST to Believe.

The Lord asks men to believe in Him and God.....but again you should already know, it is a mans CHOICE.

Jesus' PARAMOUNT DIVISION, IS DIVIDING all men....WHO believe IN Him....from those WHO elect to NOT Believe IN Him.

Seriously you are unaware of WHAT is being divided?

Matt 12:30

All men have their Individual Natural life-span, to MAKE THEIR own election/choices.

John 8:24

Scripture repeatedly teaches....for a man to NOT dally. Rather to hear, learn, make his choice....since a man never knows when his own natural life may end; and his opportunity to CHOOSE expired.

Job 4:5

A man WHO hears, learns, believes.......AND
ELECTS to CHOOSE AND Submit TO Jesus, Christ the Lord.....
THAT MAN, IS MADE Secure in WHICH SIDE of the DIVISION he FOREVER STANDS.

1 John 4:4

THAT MAN, IS KEPT SECURE "FOREVER" BY and THROUGH the Indwelling POWER OF GOD Himself.

John 14:16


Acts 3:19
John 12:40
Mark 4:12
Matt 18:3

By your comments You appear bewildered by very basic Scriptural teachings.
 

GodsGrace

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Have you ever seen or heard of a sheep turn into a goat overnight?

Sheep will always remain sheep, though some may stray.
I've heard of sheep falling away and they're found dead .
Instead of analogies we need to heed the Bible.
Jesus was warning us not to stray.
But,. He'll always come looking for us.
 
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GodsGrace

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I believe Love always wins.
I believe a wayward son is still a son.
As you know...I am not convinced that Judas was 'lost' like most people do.
I still say "maybe" he repented ...we do not know his heart.
We do not know 100% what went on between him and God in his last moments. I do not believe King Saul was 'lost' either...to me everyone is a "wait and see". We cannot possibly know.
I agree with the above.
The question is whether or not we lose our free will after salvation.
If we don't, then we're free to leave God at any time.
And if we do our state will be worse than before.
 

GodsGrace

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i read this sermon today and it is really very interesting. it teaches that Jesus came and died so we may have eternal life quoting john 3:16. traditionally this scripture taught that Jesus died for our sins so we would not perish. it just so happens that our sins were a barrier that stood between us and this everlasting life. it is true that Jesus died for our sins and it is true that if we believe in Jesus that we will not perish but there is much more to the gospel than that. john 17:3 states that this is life eternal that they may know the only true God and Jesus Christ. this verse says that knowing the Father and Jesus is eternal life. many think eternal life is living forever but that is a misconception since we are going to live forever no matter what. the body decays but the spirit lives forever whether that will be in heaven or the lake of fire. john 17:3 shows that eternal life is not given to everyone. also the word 'know' is used throughout scripture to describe the most personal and intimate relationship that you can have. example gen 4:1.

the real purpose of salvation is not living forever as great as that will be but to have an intimate personal relationship with our Lord God. when we only present salvation as something that deals with just spiritual things will only benefit us in the future is not helping people but causing a disservice to the gospel. there are many people depressed, living in poverty, dealing with strife, rejection, hurt, failed marriages and ect who put off salvation as something that only deals with the future and thus put off salvation as a thing for the future because they are too busy trying to survive today. God wants us to have eternal life and an abundant life john 10:10. thus it is possible to fall away depending upon your relationship with God.

there are more scriptures if needed i can post.

God bless
Amen to all.
Our eternal life is IN Jesus.
He is the vine that feeds us.
If we're removed from the vine, we wither and die.
John 15:1-6
 

GodsGrace

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GodsGrace;


Taken Said.. QUOTE and RESPONSE to your lack of understanding and accusation my basis is merely opinions.

Scripture teaches TO DIVIDE THE WORD OF TRUTH. This is notifying you; The WORD itself is PURE TRUTH....however the WORD DOES NOT APPLY THE SAME TO ALL PEOPLE.

There IS A DIVISION IN Gods WORD.

What a MAN chooses SHALL APPLY TO HIM, DOES NOT MEAN IT APPLYS THE SAME to all other men.

Jesus CAME to EFFECT the DIVISION.

Luke 12:51
Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth?
I tell you NAY;
But rather DIVISION.

There is your claimed nonexistant Scripture About Jesus notifying you of a DIVISION effected BY Him!



Seriously you did not learn, Men Choose God, Choose Christ ... or Not?

1 Thes 1:4
Joshua 24:15



Seriously, you are unfamiliar of the historical Jews and THEIR Jewish God? Go read the OT for yourself and discover WHOM God Gave His Word to, and WHOM were the believers.



Seriously, you are unfamiliar the Jews WAIT for Gods Messiah?



John 1:11
John 9:9



Jesus DID NOT DESTROY THE LAW. And many Jews reject Jesus as their Messiah and Continue following God and their Jewish Law.

Matt 5:17



Read of Pauls own adventures among the Gentiles.



The Lord asks men to believe in Him and God.....but again you should already know, it is a mans CHOICE.



Seriously you are unaware of WHAT is being divided?

Matt 12:30



John 8:24



Job 4:5



1 John 4:4



John 14:16


Acts 3:19
John 12:40
Mark 4:12
Matt 18:3

By your comments You appear bewildered by very basic Scriptural teachings.
Yes I'm very bewildered by basic teachings.
Will attempt to rectify.
 

GodsGrace

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Well, it's just a part of the non-osas crowd, it's spiritual blindness. They preach works and don't even realize it. Trying to keep themselves out of hell through obedience, it's a false representation of the blood of Christ and His unconditional love for the Saint. They make obedience a salvation thing, when in reality it's a sanctification thing. I could go on and on. Hey let me know how it turns out, saving yourself through obedience. God bless.

"It's more of a spirit of pride. Human pride opposes salvation being a free gift. Human pride wants to deserve salvation. You would think that knowing that you can be saved without having to live up to God's standard of perfection would bring relief and hope and it does, but for some, they prefer to slog it out, trying to be good enough to deserve Heaven. Human pride wants to appeal to its own merit, and hard work as if salvation is something to win or to earn.

To human pride, there is something somewhat romantic about the spiritual quest, of seasons of fasting and self-abasement and ascetism and enlightenment, something about a journey in search of truth. That is more far more desirable to those ruled by their pride than the truth that we are nothing but worms, and miserable wretches who deserve nothing but God's contempt. Human pride doesn't take into account how offensive and repugnant our sin is to God. We have lost sight of that. We don't realize what we look like to God.

So human pride wants to, at best, make salvation a synthesis of God's grace and human effort. Human effort is either placed at the front or at the end. We either must work to get saved or we have to work to stay saved. Either way, at some point, salvation still depends on us from a pride standpoint. To those ruled by pride, salvation can never actually be "free." That is the spirit behind the anti-OSAS mentality."

- shiloh357 www(dot)worthychristianforums(dot)com
And you're trying to get to heaven by Not obeying!
Good luck to you too brother.
 

Heb 13:8

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And you're trying to get to heaven by Not obeying!
Good luck to you too brother.

No, actually I already know I'm going to heaven because of my belief in the death, burial and resurrection. True believers in Christ obey His voice GG, less you have the spirit of accusation...

Neh 6:13 They were hoping to intimidate me and make me sin. Then they would be able to accuse and discredit me.

Job 1:6 One day the members of the heavenly court came to present themselves before the LORD, and the Accuser, Satan, came with them.

Psa 27:12 Do not let me fall into their hands. For they accuse me of things I've never done; with every breath they threaten me with violence.

Psa 31:18 Silence their lying lips— those proud and arrogant lips that accuse the godly.

Psa 35:11 Malicious witnesses testify against me. They accuse me of crimes I know nothing about.

Isa 50:8 He who vindicates me is near. Who then will bring charges against me? Let us face each other! Who is my accuser? Let him confront me!

Isa 54:17 But in that coming day no weapon turned against you will succeed. You will silence every voice raised up to accuse you. These benefits are enjoyed by the servants of the LORD; their vindication will come from me. I, the LORD, have spoken!

Jer 2:29 Why do you accuse me of doing wrong? You are the ones who have rebelled,” says the LORD.

Eze 22:9 People accuse others falsely and send them to their death. You are filled with idol worshipers and people who do obscene things.

Zec 3:1 Then the angel showed me Jeshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD. The Accuser, Satan, was there at the angel's right hand, making accusations against Jeshua.

Jhn 8:46 Which of you can truthfully accuse me of sin? And since I am telling you the truth, why don't you believe me?

Act 24:13 These men cannot prove the things they accuse me of doing.

Act 26:7 In fact, that is why the twelve tribes of Israel zealously worship God night and day, and they share the same hope I have. Yet, Your Majesty, they accuse me for having this hope!

Rom 2:15 They demonstrate that God's law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right.

Rom 8:33 Who dares accuse us whom God has chosen for his own? No one--for God himself has given us right standing with himself.

1Pe 2:12 Be careful to live properly among your unbelieving neighbors. Then even if they accuse you of doing wrong, they will see your honorable behavior, and they will give honor to God when he judges the world.

Jde 1:9 But even Michael, one of the mightiest of the angels, did not dare accuse the devil of blasphemy, but simply said, “The Lord rebuke you!” (This took place when Michael was arguing with the devil about Moses' body.)

Rev 12:10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Messiah. For the accuser of our brothers and sisters, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.

God bless
 
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Heb 13:8

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Good luck to you too brother.

GG, we obey His voice not to save ourselves, but out of thankfulness of what He already did on the cross for us. The gate is Jesus Christ himself (death, burial, resurrection).

Jhn 10:3 The gatekeeper opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.

Jhn 10:7-8 Therefore Jesus said again, “Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep. 8All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them.

Jhn 10:26-27 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.

In Jhn 10, Jesus explains to the Pharisees that He himself is the gate (death, burial, resurrection) and to become a sheep one would have to enter through that gate.

In Acts 20, "shepherds of the church of God" are referring to those who have the Holy Spirit and the blood of Christ.

In Rom 8:36, "we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered" is mashed in between Rom 8:35, 38-39, the most convincing OSAS passages in the NT.

In Heb 13, "the blood of the eternal covenant" is referring to "that great Shepherd of the sheep", the covenant of the shed blood of Jesus Christ to put it simply.

https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/sheep-wolves-illustration.26291/

God bless
 

soul man

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By the mind, I would safely assume you mean our will or our soul.
Our soul is not a good controller of our sin nature. The law was not to control our sin nature, but to let us know we had one.

Romans 7:7-12
7What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “YOU SHALL NOTCOVET.” 8But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead. 9I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; 10and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me; 11for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. 12So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

Our new nature is controlled by the Holy Spirit. We are to renew our mind, our soul --- which is controlled by our spirit.

Romans 12:2

2And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.

I believe this is what you meant to say...

Good understanding, we see things a little differently but not many see things exactly the same way.
Good scriptures, Paul really gives us a great path to follow, he gives us things we can get nowhere else. He had a great teacher (Christ Himself) revealing what it means to be a Christian.
 
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Taken

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Yes I'm very bewildered by basic teachings.
Will attempt to rectify.

Something to ponder...

When Jesus came forth out from God to the earth, He came to cause a DIVISION.

Your posts # 228, 229, 230....you use the terms; us, we, we.

Consider the pronouns....
We, us, them, etc.

Divided people do not all fall under the SAME pronouns.

Point being, as I have stressed; Know when a Scripture applies to YOU or not.

Many are Called....Few are Chosen.

The Lord does the Calling...as He has provided His Word for ALL to Hear.

Most of the World has heard...
Some outright reject;
Some listen for awhile; then reject.
Some listen, Convert, then STRAY from maintaining the relationship with the Lord.
Some listen, Convert, and MAINTAIN their relationship with the Lord.

You Know where YOU fit in, by what YOU do, and thus Which Scriptures would APPLY to YOU.

The Scriptural teachings Cover all Circumstances, and Warnings for what each individual Chooses to Do.

For example; You said Jesus warns "US" not to stray. WHO is "US" and WHY?

The answer APPLIES to several...
Jesus primarily came to SPEAK TO the JEWS.

WHY? Because they were STRAYING AWAY from God and adopting Gentile Ways. And they were called Lost.

WHY Lost? Because they had Historically already been taught about God, and were STRAYING AWAY.

Additionally they were being taught; their "waited for" Messiah had Arrived. Some accepted this...many did not. WHY?

Accepting, Because they witnessed (SAW) His Miracles.
Not Accepting, Because he was just a man, of poor presentation, from some little nothing town, no grandure, no riches, no Kingly attributes that they expected.
And to this day, many Jews Still do not accept Him....WHY?
Because to this day, the Land of Israel, the Jews are still attacked, murdered, have enemies all around, no sitting King, etc....
That has Saved them from their enemies.
They expected a Physical Worldly Salvation...
But the Lord came to provide a Spiritual Salvation.

Much of the New Testament IS TO the Jews.
Are you a Jew? The Hebrews, then Jews were to be the TEACHERS of the Word TO the World. For the most part, that has not happened....and Paul's primary role was to minister to the Gentiles...the last people to be give the Word....and are the first to predominately spread the Word of God throughout the World and the First to be accounted AS predominately Spiritually Saved.

Point being...While Scripture reveals many PRECEPTS of God for ANY man TO learn and FOLLOW. Precepts DO NOT SAVE a man AND what APPLIES to a Jew who has ACCEPTED GOD and REJECTED Christ, does not APPLY to a man WHO HAS ACCEPTED BOTH Christ and God. Nor do the Warnings APPLY equally.

When a Jewish Teacher, such as the Disciples say....We, Us, etc. THEY ARE both a Jew and a Converted man, teaching primarily Jews.

If you are not a Jew, yet Converted, the "we, us", may ONLY apply to the "Converted part", and the "WARNING" would not Apply. The Law would not Apply. The Consequences woul not Apply.

Dividing the Word of God requires an Individual to KNOW their own Standing...
(Against God, Against Christ, With God, With God and Christ), TO know exactly which Scriptures Apply to the man OR NOT.

Much of the Scriptures Focus on HOW TO become Converted...to BE forever IN God, through Christ, and the Consequences/results for THAT STANDING, and the Warnings and Consequences for Rejecting THAT STANDING.

That IS the Division. And what Applies to a MAN IN STANDING does not APPLY to a man NOT IN STANDING.

You can argue with Pronouns, but they have no effect, IF they do not apply to an Individual.
 
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GodsGrace

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Something to ponder...

When Jesus came forth out from God to the earth, He came to cause a DIVISION.

Your posts # 228, 229, 230....you use the terms; us, we, we.

Consider the pronouns....
We, us, them, etc.

Divided people do not all fall under the SAME pronouns.

Point being, as I have stressed; Know when a Scripture applies to YOU or not.

Many are Called....Few are Chosen.

The Lord does the Calling...as He has provided His Word for ALL to Hear.

Most of the World has heard...
Some outright reject;
Some listen for awhile; then reject.
Some listen, Convert, then STRAY from maintaining the relationship with the Lord.
Some listen, Convert, and MAINTAIN their relationship with the Lord.

You Know where YOU fit in, by what YOU do, and thus Which Scriptures would APPLY to YOU.

The Scriptural teachings Cover all Circumstances, and Warnings for what each individual Chooses to Do.

For example; You said Jesus warns "US" not to stray. WHO is "US" and WHY?

The answer APPLIES to several...
Jesus primarily came to SPEAK TO the JEWS.

WHY? Because they were STRAYING AWAY from God and adopting Gentile Ways. And they were called Lost.

WHY Lost? Because they had Historically already been taught about God, and were STRAYING AWAY.

Additionally they were being taught; their "waited for" Messiah had Arrived. Some accepted this...many did not. WHY?

Accepting, Because they witnessed (SAW) His Miracles.
Not Accepting, Because he was just a man, of poor presentation, from some little nothing town, no grandure, no riches, no Kingly attributes that they expected.
And to this day, many Jews Still do not accept Him....WHY?
Because to this day, the Land of Israel, the Jews are still attacked, murdered, have enemies all around, no sitting King, etc....
That has Saved them from their enemies.
They expected a Physical Worldly Salvation...
But the Lord came to provide a Spiritual Salvation.

Much of the New Testament IS TO the Jews.
Are you a Jew? The Hebrews, then Jews were to be the TEACHERS of the Word TO the World. For the most part, that has not happened....and Paul's primary role was to minister to the Gentiles...the last people to be give the Word....and are the first to predominately spread the Word of God throughout the World and the First to be accounted AS predominately Spiritually Saved.

Point being...While Scripture reveals many PRECEPTS of God for ANY man TO learn and FOLLOW. Precepts DO NOT SAVE a man AND what APPLIES to a Jew who has ACCEPTED GOD and REJECTED Christ, does not APPLY to a man WHO HAS ACCEPTED BOTH Christ and God. Nor do the Warnings APPLY equally.

When a Jewish Teacher, such as the Disciples say....We, Us, etc. THEY ARE both a Jew and a Converted man, teaching primarily Jews.

If you are not a Jew, yet Converted, the "we, us", may ONLY apply to the "Converted part", and the "WARNING" would not Apply. The Law would not Apply. The Consequences woul not Apply.

Dividing the Word of God requires an Individual to KNOW their own Standing...
(Against God, Against Christ, With God, With God and Christ), TO know exactly which Scriptures Apply to the man OR NOT.

Much of the Scriptures Focus on HOW TO become Converted...to BE forever IN God, through Christ, and the Consequences/results for THAT STANDING, and the Warnings and Consequences for Rejecting THAT STANDING.

That IS the Division. And what Applies to a MAN IN STANDING does not APPLY to a man NOT IN STANDING.

You can argue with Pronouns, but they have no effect, IF they do not apply to an Individual.
Every word in the N.T. applies to US.

Romans 11:13
13But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,

Paul was speaking to the gentile nations, in the office of Apostle, the message of grace which is for all believers.

Both the "converted part" and the "warning" part is for everyone.

What kind of a warning does this sound like to YOU?:
JESUS SAID:

Mathew 25:44-46
44“Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’ 45“Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46“These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”


Jesus is not talking about division or loss of rewards. He is not distinguishing between who does what...He DOES say that those who do not do for their neighbor will go into eternal punishment.
 
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Taken

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Every word in the N.T. applies to US.


Perhaps to you, but not to me.

Romans 11:13
13But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,

Paul was speaking to the gentile nations, in the office of Apostle, the message of grace which is for all believers.

Both the "converted part" and the "warning" part is for everyone.

What kind of a warning does this sound like to YOU?:
JESUS SAID:

Mathew 25:44-46
44“Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’ 45“Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46“These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”


Sounds like DIVISION to me.
He says "THEY"...
He says "what THEY do not do"...
He says "the Consequence for THEY"...

If that IS YOU He is speaking of, then it would APPLY to YOU.

If YOU are one IGNORES the Least of others....YOU WOULD BE THE "THEY" He is speaking of.

If YOU are one WHO Considers the Least of others and extends a hand to "them", that Scripture and warning would not APPLY to you.

However you say IT DOES, "SO therefore", you are notifying the forum, you do not Extend a hand to the least, and are subject to Jesus' Warning.

Jesus is not talking about division or loss of rewards.


If you do not recognize He IS talking about "THEY" specific and to "THESE" another specific, and the Consequences...that's on you.

Because Rewards ARE a Consequence for actions...some good, some not good.

And He definitely is speaking of a LOSS of rewards, for particular behavior of "THEY" toward "THESE".

He is not distinguishing between who does what...He DOES say that those who do not do for their neighbor will go into eternal punishment.

Yes He is. He is using pronouns. It is up to YOU to distinguish IF a particular pronoun is applicable to YOU.

Apparently you have no need to understand this...since you have already determined EVERY Word of the NT applies to you, even though the NT speaks of Jews specific, Gentiles specific, believers in God ONLY, believers in God and Christ, non-believers, Non-Converted, Converted....
I guess you are all of these.

Sort of appears you are on the fence post trying to decide which Side to leap to.

There is ONLY two sides.....Standing WITH God and ALL others Stand Against Him.
 

GodsGrace

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Perhaps to you, but not to me.



Sounds like DIVISION to me.
He says "THEY"...
He says "what THEY do not do"...
He says "the Consequence for THEY"...

If that IS YOU He is speaking of, then it would APPLY to YOU.

If YOU are one IGNORES the Least of others....YOU WOULD BE THE "THEY" He is speaking of.

If YOU are one WHO Considers the Least of others and extends a hand to "them", that Scripture and warning would not APPLY to you.

However you say IT DOES, "SO therefore", you are notifying the forum, you do not Extend a hand to the least, and are subject to Jesus' Warning.


If you do not recognize He IS talking about "THEY" specific and to "THESE" another specific, and the Consequences...that's on you.

Because Rewards ARE a Consequence for actions...some good, some not good.

And He definitely is speaking of a LOSS of rewards, for particular behavior of "THEY" toward "THESE".



Yes He is. He is using pronouns. It is up to YOU to distinguish IF a particular pronoun is applicable to YOU.

Apparently you have no need to understand this...since you have already determined EVERY Word of the NT applies to you, even though the NT speaks of Jews specific, Gentiles specific, believers in God ONLY, believers in God and Christ, non-believers, Non-Converted, Converted....
I guess you are all of these.

Sort of appears you are on the fence post trying to decide which Side to leap to.

There is ONLY two sides.....Standing WITH God and ALL others Stand Against Him.
Taken,
I give you my permission to understand Jesus and the N.T. writers however you wish to understand them.

Blessings
 
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Taken

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Taken,
I give you my permission to understand Jesus and the N.T. writers however you wish to understand them.

Blessings

Oh thanks, however the Lord has already given me a pathway and permission to His Understanding.

God Bless,
Taken
 
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