Can you lose your salvation?

[Born_Again]

This has always been a fun topic. I had someone ask me about this yesterday. And I love a good debate..

1. No, if you fall away, you were never saved to begin with.

orrrrr

2. Yes, it is possible to fall away and lose your salvation.

orrrrr

3. No, but you can turn your back on Christ. ( I actually heard someone say this )

Thoughts?

 

[Stranger]

Born_Again

I don't agree with 1 or 2. I don't understand all that is meant by 3. I simply say one cannot lose their salvation.

Stranger

 

[FHII]

This has always been a fun topic. I had someone ask me about this yesterday. And I love a good debate..

1. No, if you fall away, you were never saved to begin with.

orrrrr

2. Yes, it is possible to fall away and lose your salvation.

orrrrr

3. No, but you can turn your back on Christ. ( I actually heard someone say this )

Thoughts?

1 John 2:19 convinces me that arguement #1 is correct (that if we fall away, we never were chosen).

Some would say hebrews 10:26 (which speaks of the sin of forsaking the assembling of ourselves) woukd state #2 to be correct, and I see that point. I still stick with the notion that we we never saved to begin with.

We can receive the knowledge of the truth, but still reject it, just as Judas did. That does not mean that seed fell on good ground.

 

[H. Richard]

Assurance of salvation: Useful Scriptures

John 5:24-27
24 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.
26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself,
27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.
NKJV

John 6:34-35
34 Then they said to Him, "Lord, give us this bread always."
35 And Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.
NKJV

John 6:46-50
46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father.
47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.
48 I am the bread of life.
49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die.
NKJV

Acts 13:38-39
38 Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins;
39 and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.
NKJV

Romans 4:5-8
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin."
NKJV

Romans 10:3-4
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
NKJV

Romans 10:10-13
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
13 For "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."
NKJV

1 John 5:4-5
4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world — our faith.
5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
NKJV

1 John 5:9-13
9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater; for this is the witness of God which He has testified of His Son.
10 He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son.
11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
NKJV

 

[Born_Again]

I don't know how to even begin to justify the 3rd one. It was just an answer I had heard. I personally support #1. I think if you can fall away, then you were never saved to being with.

 

[Phoneman777]

The penalty for which the Unjust Steward was forgiven was reinstated.

Jesus said that separated branches are cast into the fire.

These two passages of Scripture alone place the question beyond debate.

God's love is unconditional, but His salvation isn't.

 

[Angelina]

...but he was still on the vine. I think God gives everyone he calls a chance. The ones who manage to cross the Jordan are safe. The ones who do not cross are stuck on the other side until they make the choice to cross. If they die before that...they do so without the saviors promises.

 

[StanJ]

Losing one's salvation is not the same as losing one's wallet. I think the framing of this question is not succinct enough.
Apostasy is not about losing one's salvation it is about walking away from what once was real and important to you. Not much different than couples who get a divorce. They don't lose their marriage they walk away from it. The New Testament clearly shows that apostasy happens in people's lives and Hebrews 6:4-6 very clearly teaches this.

 

[mjrhealth]

God's love is unconditional, but His salvation isn't.

The only way you can loose your salvation would be to cast Jesus our from yourself like a devil.

2Ti_2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Jesus is faithfull and he is true, he will not turn His back on anyman, he is not like men who presume to bring Him down to the level of men.

So many stil ltrying to save themseves through there works and not by faith.

it is Finished, the last words he spoke on teh cross. So why dont people believe Him??

 

[Dcopymope]

The only way you can loose your salvation would be to cast Jesus our from yourself like a devil.

2Ti_2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Jesus is faithfull and he is true, he will not turn His back on anyman, he is not like men who presume to bring Him down to the level of men.

So many stil ltrying to save themseves through there works and not by faith.

it is Finished, the last words he spoke on teh cross. So why dont people believe Him??

Maybe its the same reason why Adam and Eve ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? Its because Satan is whispering in their ears.

 

[kerwin]

This has always been a fun topic. I had someone ask me about this yesterday. And I love a good debate..

1. No, if you fall away, you were never saved to begin with.

orrrrr

2. Yes, it is possible to fall away and lose your salvation.

orrrrr

3. No, but you can turn your back on Christ. ( I actually heard someone say this )

Thoughts?

What about God is the one that says who is saved and not mere human beings. Which would be that one is not saved until Judgement Day; which is why it is called Judgement day. It could also be claimed that those that will be saved were save before the world began. In addition another could claim those that will be saved were saved when Jesus sacrificed himself for the world. All three claims are true even though they appear to disagree.

 

[H. Richard]

It should be noticed that a child of God has already been judged. When a child of God is made that child because he/she believes in the work of Jesus on the cross his/her believing (faith) has made them what they are; children of God. They are sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption (caught up).

 

[StanJ]

It should be noticed that a child of God has already been judged. When a child of God is made that child because he/she believes in the work of Jesus on the cross his/her believing (faith) has made them what they are; children of God. They are sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption (caught up).

Hebrews 9:27-28 shows that your assertion is wrong, as does Matthew 25:31-46 and Revelation 20:11-15.

 

[H. Richard]

Hebrews 9:27-28 shows that your assertion is wrong, as does Matthew 25:31-46 and Revelation 20:11-15.

**
Obviously you do not believe in the rapture (caught up) of the children of God.

The second verse 28 in Hebrews " 28 so also the Messiah, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for Him. The children of God are waiting for Him.

Mathew 25:31-46 is after the children of God have been caught up (raptured) to be with Christ.

 

[Phoneman777]

Losing one's salvation is not the same as losing one's wallet. I think the framing of this question is not succinct enough.
Apostasy is not about losing one's salvation it is about walking away from what once was real and important to you. Not much different than couples who get a divorce. They don't lose their marriage they walk away from it. The New Testament clearly shows that apostasy happens in people's lives and Hebrews 6:4-6 very clearly teaches this.

Well said.

 

[StanJ]

**
Obviously you do not believe in the rapture (caught up) of the children of God.

The second verse 28 in Hebrews " 28 [/size]so also the Messiah, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for Him. The children of God are waiting for Him.

Mathew 25:31-46 is after the children of God have been caught up (raptured) to be with Christ.

That would only be obvious to you.

So do you believe you will only be saved when Jesus returns? Because that's exactly what the verse you just quoted means?
The Brothers and sisters of Jesus Christ are waiting for his return, yes, but that has nothing to do with the Judgment Seat of Christ now does it? Try addressing the scriptures I gave you.

 

[mjrhealth]

Well said.

For one to be divorced one needs first to be married, for one to loose ones salvation one must first be saved, any one can reject Christ, manty do without ever knowing Him, many do even though they do know Him, certainy Jesus never though that just because one calls themself "christian" doesnt mean that they are His.

Mat_15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
Mar_7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

Luk_13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

You look with your eyes and dont see listen but cant hear..

Mat_13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Where is your faith??

 

[Phoneman777]

...but he was still on the vine. I think God gives everyone he calls a chance. The ones who manage to cross the Jordan are safe. The ones who do not cross are stuck on the other side until they make the choice to cross. If they die before that...they do so without the saviors promises.

There is no "spiritual Switzerland". We're either a branch connected to the Vine and in His safe keeping or we are fallen off to the ground and will be cast into the fire. Note: The branch that has fallen off was ONCE connected to the Vine.

 

[Phoneman777]

It should be noticed that a child of God has already been judged. When a child of God is made that child because he/she believes in the work of Jesus on the cross his/her believing (faith) has made them what they are; children of God. They are sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption (caught up).

Doesn't Paul say "we must all stand before the Judgment seat of Christ"? That's future.

Also, the "seal" is not like that of a mason jar which "traps" something in and renders it incapable of getting out - a popular idea among Christians who want the future security of the courts of heaven while presently reclining on Satan's living room couch - it is a "seal" in the sense of a "sign" or "insignia" which identifies God's own from the world's own. The word "seal" is synonymous with "mark", or "sign", etc.

 

[Angelina]

There is no "spiritual Switzerland". We're either a branch connected to the Vine and in His safe keeping or we are fallen off to the ground and will be cast into the fire. Note: The branch that has fallen off was ONCE connected to the Vine.

Please read John 15 again...

5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

The branch that does not remain in the vine is thrown away and withers. They are then picked up and thrown into the fire. God cuts off every branch that does not bear any fruit and prunes those who do. These branches are still connected to the vine until ~
1. The branch decides not to remain in the vine
2. The branch bears no fruit.

As I have already said in the comment s above:
"I think God gives everyone he calls a chance. The ones who manage to cross the Jordan are safe. The ones who do not cross are stuck on the other side until they make the choice to cross. If they die before that...they do so without the saviors promises."

My analogy refers to those who remain/stay founded in Christ. The choice is still in the hands of the branch whether it remains in the vine and/or whether it bears fruit....

It is comparable to a similar parable that Jesus spoke of, regarding the fig tree in Luke 13

6 Then he told this parable: “A man had a fig tree growing in his vineyard, and he went to look for fruit on it but did not find any. 7 So he said to the man who took care of the vineyard, ‘For three years now I’ve been coming to look for fruit on this fig tree and haven’t found any. Cut it down! Why should it use up the soil?’
8 “‘Sir,’ the man replied, ‘leave it alone for one more year, and I’ll dig around it and fertilize it. 9 If it bears fruit next year, fine! If not, then cut it down.’”

2 Peter 3 says ~

8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

Not that all will come to a place of repentance...however, it does show the heart that God has toward all people...