Catholics; Do You Believe This?

[BreadOfLife]

I don't worship Martin Luther; I don't worship any man. However, I regard Martin Luther in the same light as I regard Moses. Martin Luther rescued Christianity from the corrupt Catholic denomination by returning the people to the word of God in the same way that Moses gave the people the word of God, even though they were clearly into false religion.

It's not my problem that your denomination has created a "golden calf" of idolatry, departing so much from the truth of God's word that it is almost entirely lost. You believe the doctrines of men; I believe the truth of God.

Do you think that the many offenses committed by your denomination: the crusades, the inquisitions, the excommunications of "heretics" like Luther and others, the persecution and wholesale murder of "unbelievers" such as native Americans and others, the disgusting sexual abuse of children, etc., etc., etc. are admirable? Jesus said to love others as yourself, but apparently the papacy has never subscribed to that credo.

Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life." John 14:6 He didn't say that your denomination is the way, the truth, and the life. That is all that needs to be said.

So much nonsense – it’s difficult to know just where to begin . . .

First of all – the Catholic Church is not a “denomination”.
It is the Original Tree from which Protestantism splintered – and continues to splinter to the tune of tens of thousands of perpetually-splintering sects that ALL teach different doctrines based on the personal interpretations of their HUMAN founders.

It cracks me up when you people refer Catholics and the “Doctrines of men” – why YOU adhere to patently man-made inventions like Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide.
NOWHERE are these fallacies of men taught on the pages of Scripture - yet YOU believe them to be of God. EVERY Protestant denomination teaches HUMAN doctrines and precepts that differ from the other denominations.

As for your ridiculous comparison of Luther to Moses -
Moses was led by GOD.
Luther was led by his own arrogance and wanted to REMOVE several Books from the NT, like James, Hebrews, Jude and Revelation. Had it NOT been for the cooler temperaments and urging of his contemporaries, like Philip Melanchton – YOU would have a much THINNER Bible than you already do.

“Moses”, indeed . . .

 

[Augustin56]

Question.
No salvation outside the Catholic Church?

Question NOT Answered.

A better translation from the Latin would have been "apart from the Catholic Church there is no salvation.". All who are saved, are saved through the Catholic Church, whether they are explicit members or not.

The Catholic Church is different in nature from the thousands of manmade denominations that have been created in the last 500 years of Christianity. The Catholic Church is the Mystical Body of Christ.

Recall Acts 9:4, where Jesus knocked Saul (Paul's Hebrew name) from his horse and said to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?". Saul had been persecuting the Church, but Jesus didn't ask, "...why are you persecuting my Church?". Why? Because Christ identified as one with His Church! Persecute Christ's Church and you persecute Him!

 

[GRACE ambassador]

op: outside the 'Roman church' there is not salvation?
answer: His Name is not ↑, but Is The LORD And Savior Jesus Christ, and:

1) Act_4:12 "Neither is there salvation in any other ( rc or any religion ): for there is
none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

2) Act 10:43 "To Him give all the prophets witness, that through
His Name whosoever believeth in Him shall receive remission of sins."

3) Rom 5:1 "Therefore being justified by faith, we have Peace with God through our
LORD Jesus Christ"

Better question is: Is there salvation outside of The LORD Jesus Christ?:

Grace, Peace, Mercy, Love and JOY! and:

"Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, Saith the LORD,​

and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be A Father​

unto you, and ye shall be My sons and daughters, Saith The LORD Almighty."​

(2Co 6:17-18)​

God Is no respecter of persons, in or out of any religion, and Teaches all:

"...behold, Now is The Accepted Time; behold, Now is The Day Of Salvation." (2Co 6:2)

In, And Only In The Great God, And Only Saviour, Jesus Christ!

Amen.

 

[Brakelite]

Even though the bishop of Rome may claim them as his, other churches do not come under his authority unless they voluntarily do so by submitting themselves to His doctrines and his dogma. Those churches who believe the Bible to be their only rule of faith endanger their own souls with every step they take that brings them closer to Rome, and further away from the word of God. The statement above that there is no salvation outside of the Roman communion is why the reformers called that particular institution Antichrist....the bishops and teachers of Rome, and those who had succumbed to Roman lies and sophistry and joined them in their rebellion against Christ and the gospel,, had replaced Christ, instituting a man made system of theology and ritualism displacing the true Christ and His sole role as Mediator between God and man. That act of replacement is the very meaning of the Greek word, antichristos. Instead of Christ.
I am sure the very earliest bishops of Rome were true Christians, having no thought nor lust for political power and prestige, but the church in later centuries, and the bishops that led it, were very different from that early church that the apostle Paul would have been familiar with. Rome was prey to those ravenous wolves Paul warned of, that would not spare the flock. The Roman church of today, in her greed and lust for global power over all nations, kingdoms, tongues, and people confirm the reformers' initial estimation of her true character.
Catholics need to recognize that the church of Rome was never the only group of believers in the world, and that any unity that later developed between Rome and other city's church groups, came more as a result of political force and intrigue, rather than the gospel message as given in scripture. Even war, as can be readily seen in the persecutions against so many Christian groups that refused to bend their knees before the Roman bishop, became an acceptable alternative to simply trusting God to convert repentant sinners.
Of course, the above doors not exclude the truth that within the Roman Catholic communion, there are many genuine Christians living their lives fully in accord with the light they have. But the call will soon be finding forth, accomplished with great light and power of the holy Spirit, for those genuine children of God to come out of that system, and forever turn their backs on the corruption and deceptions that have been the hallmarks of the Roman apostasy since early centuries. The frauds, the false claims, the myths and false legends that were used for centuries to entice ignorant souls into her snare, are still used by many to justify her claims to be the blessed of God.

 

[Taken]

A better translation from the Latin would have been "apart from the Catholic Church there is no salvation.". All who are saved, are saved through the Catholic Church, whether they are explicit members or not.

Thank you for your analysis, however I disagree.

The Catholic Church is different in nature from the thousands of manmade denominations that have been created in the last 500 years of Christianity. The Catholic Church is the Mystical Body of Christ.

Church Denominations are simply a group of members willing to agree to abide by a man-devised set of standards and principles.

The Catholic Denomination is no different, as they also have devised a set of standards and principles their members are willing to abide by.

The term Catholic is simply indicative of a geographical location being without limited boundaries.

Christ’s Church is expressly about an individuals willingness to have a one on one lasting relationship WITH the Lord God, regardless of his geographical location and regardless IF that individual IS a member of a “man-made” Church, (called by whatever Denomination).

Recall Acts 9:4, where Jesus knocked Saul (Paul's Hebrew name) from his horse and said to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?". Saul had been persecuting the Church, but Jesus didn't ask, "...why are you persecuting my Church?". Why?

Scripture informs us;
JESUS, IS the Word of God.
JESUS, IS the Christ of God.
CHRIST JESUS “established” and “called” HIS CHURCH…as “MY” Church.
CHRIST JESUS…IS the Head, of His Church.
* Every individual, (from whatever geographical location) WHO joins the membership of CHRIST JESUS’ CHURCH, BECOMES the BODY, (the makeup), (the exclusive members), of CHRIST JESUS’ SPIRITUAL Church.
** Without the sight observance of the individual joining member, or any other man…The Lord God (who IS Spirit and Almighty Power); (once and for ever) FORGIVES that mans (wholeness) ie. BODY, SOUL, SPIRIT and CHANGES that new members;
(Wholeness) ie. BODY, SOUL, SPIRIT, “to” that which “IS” acceptable and pleasing unto the Lord God.

Because Christ identified as one with His Church! Persecute Christ's Church and you persecute Him!

Precisely “His CHURCH”…”NOT” man-made Church’s of wood, brick and mortar, and pretense of men, preaching that joining such and such man-made wood, brick and mortar church IS the “SAME” as joining CHRIST JESUS’ CHURCH.

Wood, Brick and Mortar “tangible” churches can at ANY Time become a pile of rubble and dust.
CHRIST JESUS’ CHURCH “spiritual” is the member being “WITH” Christ the Lord’s Spirit FOREVER, and “IN” Christ the Lord’s Risen BODY, “until their own natural body physically dies AND they raised up in their own “glorified”, spiritual BODY”.

No man-made Domination has exclusive authority to dictate “their” members are the “ONLY” members of Christ Jesus’ Spiritual Church.

Salvation OUTSIDE the “catholic church” ?
Absolutely.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[amigo de christo]

Thank you for your analysis, however I disagree.


Church Denominations are simply a group of members willing to agree to abide by a man-devised set of standards and principles.

The Catholic Denomination is no different, as they also have devised a set of standards and principles their members are willing to abide by.

The term Catholic is simply indicative of a geographical location being without limited boundaries.

Christ’s Church is expressly about an individuals willingness to have a one on one lasting relationship WITH the Lord God, regardless of his geographical location and regardless IF that individual IS a member of a “man-made” Church, (called by whatever Denomination).


Scripture informs us;
JESUS, IS the Word of God.
JESUS, IS the Christ of God.
CHRIST JESUS “established” and “called” HIS CHURCH…as “MY” Church.
CHRIST JESUS…IS the Head, of His Church.
* Every individual, (from whatever geographical location) WHO joins the membership of CHRIST JESUS’ CHURCH, BECOMES the BODY, (the makeup), (the exclusive members), of CHRIST JESUS’ SPIRITUAL Church.
** Without the sight observance of the individual joining member, or any other man…The Lord God (who IS Spirit and Almighty Power); (once and for ever) FORGIVES that mans (wholeness) ie. BODY, SOUL, SPIRIT and CHANGES that new members;
(Wholeness) ie. BODY, SOUL, SPIRIT, “to” that which “IS” acceptable and pleasing unto the Lord God.



Precisely “His CHURCH”…”NOT” man-made Church’s of wood, brick and mortar, and pretense of men, preaching that joining such and such man-made wood, brick and mortar church IS the “SAME” as joining CHRIST JESUS’ CHURCH.

Wood, Brick and Mortar “tangible” churches can at ANY Time become a pile of rubble and dust.
CHRIST JESUS’ CHURCH “spiritual” is the member being “WITH” Christ the Lord’s Spirit FOREVER, and “IN” Christ the Lord’s Risen BODY, “until their own natural body physically dies AND they raised up in their own “glorified”, spiritual BODY”.

No man-made Domination has exclusive authority to dictate “their” members are the “ONLY” members of Christ Jesus’ Spiritual Church.

Salvation OUTSIDE the “catholic church” ?
Absolutely.

Glory to God,
Taken

I can only imagine what CHRIST and the apostels would have said to them popes .
Christ once brought a whip into the temple , peter and paul and others rebuked those who desired the pre eminence .
My advice is very simple . Let no man woman or child ever follow the RCC . And if we love them
we would warn and help them .
So allow me some parting words . Come ye out from amongst them and be not partakers of their sins .
Rather warn any and all to never once partake of that which is deadly .

 

[BarneyFife]

So much nonsense – it’s difficult to know just where to begin . . .

First of all – the Catholic Church is not a “denomination”.
It is the Original Tree from which Protestantism splintered – and continues to splinter to the tune of tens of thousands of perpetually-splintering sects that ALL teach different doctrines based on the personal interpretations of their HUMAN founders.

It cracks me up when you people refer Catholics and the “Doctrines of men” – why YOU adhere to patently man-made inventions like Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide.
NOWHERE are these fallacies of men taught on the pages of Scripture - yet YOU believe them to be of God. EVERY Protestant denomination teaches HUMAN doctrines and precepts that differ from the other denominations.

As for your ridiculous comparison of Luther to Moses -
Moses was led by GOD.
Luther was led by his own arrogance and wanted to REMOVE several Books from the NT, like James, Hebrews, Jude and Revelation. Had it NOT been for the cooler temperaments and urging of his contemporaries, like Philip Melanchton – YOU would have a much THINNER Bible than you already do.

“Moses”, indeed . . .

While I sympathize with your concerns about pluralism, I can't help but wonder if an organized church containing over a billion members that are increasingly 'going their own way' is really any better than folks gathering in smaller groups that hold common beliefs.

Is the Catholic church truly corralling orthodoxy and fulfilling the mission of Christ more efficiently and effectively than the rest of professing Christianity?

Hope this doesn't come across as condemnatory in any way, BOL.

 

[David in NJ]

Catholics, do you believe this from the Catholic Catechism?

No salvation outside the Catholic Church?

Any words in red is not part of the Catholic catechism I am quoting.

"824 United with Christ, the Church is sanctified by him; through him and with him she becomes sanctifying. "All the activities of the Church are directed, as toward their end, to the sanctification of men in Christ and the glorification of God."292 It is in the Church that "the fullness of the means of salvation"293 has been deposited. It is in her that "by the grace of God we acquire holiness."294"

830 The word "catholic" means "universal," in the sense of "according to the totality" or "in keeping with the whole." the Church is catholic in a double sense: First, the Church is catholic because Christ is present in her. "Where there is Christ Jesus, there is the Catholic Church."307 In her subsists the fullness of Christ's body united with its head; this implies that she receives from him "the fullness of the means of salvation"308 which he has willed: correct and complete confession of faith, full sacramental life, and ordained ministry in apostolic succession. the Church was, in this fundamental sense, catholic on the day of Pentecost309 and will always be so until the day of the Parousia.

"Outside the Church there is no salvation"

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

The irony is how the following quote from the Catholic Catechism has those who do not know about the gospel of Jesus Christ & His Church through no fault of their own are saved.

47 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

And yet

837 "Fully incorporated into the society of the Church are those who, possessing the Spirit of Christ, accept all the means of salvation given to the Church together with her entire organization, and who - by the bonds constituted by the profession of faith, the sacraments, ecclesiastical government, and communion - are joined in the visible structure of the Church of Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity is not saved. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but 'in body' not 'in heart.'"321

Does any Catholic wished they had never heard of the gospel of Jesus Christ & His Church?

There is only one Gospel since the Beginning/Genesis.

Roman Catholicism is evil.

2 Corinthians 11:12-15
But what I do, I will also continue to do, that I may cut off the opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the things of which they boast. For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.

 

[amigo de christo]

There is only one Gospel since the Beginning/Genesis.

Roman Catholicism is evil.

2 Corinthians 11:12-15
But what I do, I will also continue to do, that I may cut off the opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the things of which they boast. For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.

Exactly .

 

[amigo de christo]

While I sympathize with your concerns about pluralism, I can't help but wonder if an organized church containing over a billion members that are increasingly 'going their own way' is really any better than folks gathering in smaller groups that hold common beliefs.

Is the Catholic church truly corralling orthodoxy and fulfilling the mission of Christ more efficiently and effectively than the rest of professing Christianity?

Hope this doesn't come across as condemnatory in any way, BOL.

Have you ever wondered how paul would have reacted to those who preach falsehoods .
Go take a peek at the book of acts .
Or how about JESUS . How did he respond to those who ran the system yet decieved the people .
Just ponder on that for a while barney . In the meantime let us get DUG deep and afresh back in the bible .
Have you ever wondered that it sure seems today the mission is more on trying to get along
and not offending , rather than on just speaking truth .
Barney i watched how many churches fell . And it did not happen in one day . THough the momement
their leadership chose to start looking that direction IT WAS DOOMED as were its people .
Just something for us to ponder on my friend .

 

[Jim B]

I can only imagine what CHRIST and the apostels would have said to them popes .
Christ once brought a whip into the temple , peter and paul and others rebuked those who desired the pre eminence .
My advice is very simple . Let no man woman or child ever follow the RCC . And if we love them
we would warn and help them .
So allow me some parting words . Come ye out from amongst them and be not partakers of their sins .
Rather warn any and all to never once partake of that which is deadly .

 

[Jim B]

Have you ever wondered how paul would have reacted to those who preach falsehoods .
Go take a peek at the book of acts .
Or how about JESUS . How did he respond to those who ran the system yet decieved the people .
Just ponder on that for a while barney . In the meantime let us get DUG deep and afresh back in the bible .
Have you ever wondered that it sure seems today the mission is more on trying to get along
and not offending , rather than on just speaking truth .
Barney i watched how many churches fell . And it did not happen in one day . THough the momement
their leadership chose to start looking that direction IT WAS DOOMED as were its people .
Just something for us to ponder on my friend .

 

[BarneyFife]

Have you ever wondered how paul would have reacted to those who preach falsehoods .
Go take a peek at the book of acts .
Or how about JESUS . How did he respond to those who ran the system yet decieved the people .
Just ponder on that for a while barney . In the meantime let us get DUG deep and afresh back in the bible .
Have you ever wondered that it sure seems today the mission is more on trying to get along
and not offending , rather than on just speaking truth .
Barney i watched how many churches fell . And it did not happen in one day . THough the momement
their leadership chose to start looking that direction IT WAS DOOMED as were its people .
Just something for us to ponder on my friend .

For pondering to take place, there has to be an occasional pause in sermonizing (which I guess I just precipitated).

 

[amigo de christo]

For pondering to take place, there has to be an occasional pause in sermonizing (which I guess I just precipitated).

Barney , i dont care what the pope would say about ya , you know i loves ya . Now get that nose DUG in that bible my friend .
AND by all means i wont get upset if you told me to DO THE SAME THING . NOSES IN BIBLES .

 

[Jim B]

Have you ever wondered how paul would have reacted to those who preach falsehoods .
Go take a peek at the book of acts .
Or how about JESUS . How did he respond to those who ran the system yet decieved the people .
Just ponder on that for a while barney . In the meantime let us get DUG deep and afresh back in the bible .
Have you ever wondered that it sure seems today the mission is more on trying to get along
and not offending , rather than on just speaking truth .
Barney i watched how many churches fell . And it did not happen in one day . THough the momement
their leadership chose to start looking that direction IT WAS DOOMED as were its people .
Just something for us to ponder on my friend .

Jesus said to "love your neighbor as yourself". Why do you have a problem with that?

You wrote " i watched how many churches fell". Okay, I'll bite. How many churches did you watch fall?

 

[amigo de christo]

For pondering to take place, there has to be an occasional pause in sermonizing (which I guess I just precipitated).

Looks like you found a new friend barney . hate can unite folks .
Now noses in bibles , i say that to us all . NOSES
IN
BIBLE .
cause way too many are now being led by emotions that are fast leading folks into another direction .
Say hi to him for me .

 

[amigo de christo]

Jesus said to "love your neighbor as yourself". Why do you have a problem with that?

You wrote " i watched how many churches fell". Okay, I'll bite. How many churches did you watch fall?

Your version of love your neighbor is the problem . You think its love to let muslims think we serve the same GOD .
You thinks its hate to warn folks about their sin or error . You wrong my friend .
Satan can quoate scripture . DO YOU DENY THAT . But mark my words HE will twist it .

 

[Jim B]

Barney , i dont care what the pope would say about ya , you know i loves ya . Now get that nose DUG in that bible my friend .
AND by all means i wont get upset if you told me to DO THE SAME THING . NOSES IN BIBLES .

Okay, read your Bible, but this time with understanding instead of trying to reinforce your mistaken beliefs.

 

[amigo de christo]

Okay, read your Bible, but this time with understanding instead of trying to reinforce your mistaken beliefs.

By that you mean with the PROGRESSIVE MINDSET and UNDERSTANDING . Nope , not for me at all .

 

[Jim B]

Looks like you found a new friend barney . hate can unite folks .
Now noses in bibles , i say that to us all . NOSES
IN
BIBLE .
cause way too many are now being led by emotions that are fast leading folks into another direction .
Say hi to him for me .

You wrote "hate can unite folks". Is that why you preach so much hatred?