Catholics

[mjrhealth]

Because I admonished you not to lie??
You think WAAAAAAY too much of yourself . . .

No i just think waayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy to much about Jesus, and you your church, this bit

Mat 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
My treasure is Christ He is all I speak of, we all know where your treasure is, you plaster photos of it all over these forums.

 

[mjrhealth]

And you'll be free when you start obeying God instead of mocking His Church . . .

Oh you mean this bit,

In Luke 10:16, Jesus talks about His Church when He says:

The part where you decieve the people, and who is the deceiver??? You are not speaking of His church you are speaking of your church, is it not deception where one says one thing but means another.

 

[aspen]

Hate speech. I've written extensively on the topic of sex abuse, and you don't know what you are talking about. PROTESTANTS, a heads up if you were abused by your minister....
The latest audit of the Catholic clergy involved in the sexual abuse of minors shows that there were two new substantiated cases made during the period of July 1, 2015 through June 30, 2016 against 52,238 priests and deacons. That comes to .004 percent of the clergy. Tell me the name of your church and I can probably dig up more dirt than that. Oops, you have the no-name brand of "Christian" so you can hide behind the wall of anonymity.

I am Catholic, Kepha.

Perhaps you missed this recent article.

‘Culture of Silence’ Abetted Abuse of at Least 547 German Choir Boys, Inquiry Finds

 

[epostle1]

I am Catholic, Kepha.

Perhaps you missed this recent article.

‘Culture of Silence’ Abetted Abuse of at Least 547 German Choir Boys, Inquiry Finds

The inquiry starts at the year 1945. Do you think that is fair?
The New York Times is reputed for it's anti-Catholic reporting, but assuming the story is true, charges will be levied against suspects, if they are still alive. Nobody gets immunity from the courts, clergy will be defrocked and sent to jail, according to the courts, and litigation will be paid out to the victims plus what ever counselling is required. The Pope may visit the victims like they have previously.

If you do a little reading you will find the abuse is mostly ear twisting and slaps, with sexual abuse about a dozen unconfirmed cases, (over a 70 year period) not 547 cases of sexual abuse. But the New York Times feeds off of catchy headlines. I don't take anything at face value from a rag like the New York Times.
I hope the bastards get what they deserve, but trial by media?

Your claim to be Catholic is rather puzzling.

Sex abuse is a grave evil and the Church has still done more than anyone else, even if the cases go back to 1945. Because it is everywhere, it's a cultural problem and I don't think it's realistic to expect the Church to keep up with everything at all times in all places. The Church does not have super mind reading powers. But in the US, no one can match a .004% rate.

 

[BreadOfLife]

No its because Jesus is Lord of Lord and King Kings, and God appointed Him to rule and rein over us, God does not have favourutes as you prpose, that is why you preach a lie and need to defend it, Keep going it fun watching you shout at everyone.

You're right - God doesn't have "favourutes".

HOWEVER . . .
What was Abraham??
He was a leader appointed by God.

What was Moses?
He was a leader appointed by God.

What was David??
He was a leader appointed by God.

What was Eliakim??
He was a leader appointed by God.

What was Peter??
He was a leader appointed by God.

Study your Bible and stop embarrassing yourself . . .

 

[aspen]

The inquiry starts at the year 1945. Do you think that is fair?
The New York Times is reputed for it's anti-Catholic reporting, but assuming the story is true, charges will be levied against suspects, if they are still alive. Nobody gets immunity from the courts, clergy will be defrocked and sent to jail, according to the courts, and litigation will be paid out to the victims plus what ever counselling is required. The Pope may visit the victims like they have previously.

If you do a little reading you will find the abuse is mostly ear twisting and slaps, with sexual abuse about a dozen unconfirmed cases, (over a 70 year period) not 547 cases of sexual abuse. But the New York Times feeds off of catchy headlines. I don't take anything at face value from a rag like the New York Times.
I hope the bastards get what they deserve, but trial by media?

Your claim to be Catholic is rather puzzling.

Sex abuse is a grave evil and the Church has still done more than anyone else, even if the cases go back to 1945. Because it is everywhere, it's a cultural problem and I don't think it's realistic to expect the Church to keep up with everything at all times in all places. The Church does not have super mind reading powers. But in the US, no one can match a .004% rate.

What is puzzling about my Catholicism? I am puzzled that you have failed to notice - I have posted a lot on this board

 

[aspen]

You don't think it is realistic for the church to provide security for children and to work with law enforcement to prosecute abusers? See, now your Catholism is puzzling to me. We are called to be apologists for Christ, not clericism

 

[aspen]

Yep, looks like the Catholic thread.......

 

[BreadOfLife]

What is puzzling about my Catholicism? I am puzzled that you have failed to notice - I have posted a lot on this board

You don't think it is realistic for the church to provide security for children and to work with law enforcement to prosecute abusers? See, now your Catholism is puzzling to me. We are called to be apologists for Christ, not clericism

WRONG.
We are called to stand up for the Church - period.

MOST of the clergy around the world is innocent of these abominations - but you wouldn't know that from the articles you read from the mainstream secular press. They have pretty much crucified ALL priests - and the fact that you post these types of articles is why it seems puzzling that you claim to be Catholic.

The Catholic Church in America today is the safest haven for children in ANY church setting or denominational environment. The Church has put stringent safeguards in place, finger printing of all adults in ministries, watchdog groups, etc. The mainstream secular press likes to paint a picture of the "dangers" of the Catholic Church - but the facts are quite different.

I suggest you read a book by Protestant author, Philip Jenkins called, "Pedophiles and Priests." In his book, Jenkins lays out all of the statistics about what really goes on in churches in America today. You might be surprised to learn that the cases of molestation involving Protestant clergy dwarf those in the Catholic Church.

This is not an excuse for what happened in the Catholic Church - but it IS a textbook example of anti-Catholic bias.

The media simply doesn't go after these smaller churches - even though the cases are more rampant. Jenkins points out that there are TWO reasons for this:
a. Because of the perceived wealth of the Catholic Church, which makes lawyers salivate
b. There is just no money in it for anybody in smaller churches because most are not even insured anyway

This behavior needs to stop everywhere - but people need to clean their own houses before attacking only the Catholic Church. And people like YOU who claim to be Catholic should do their homework . . .

 

[aspen]

Justification by comparison is justification. There is no justification for abuse in any setting, BoL, sorry.

Jesus was a Jew who did not justify the abuses of clericalism in the Temple. PERIOD.

I rest my case

 

[Angelina]

Hi aspen! How are you? Glad to see you posting again....

 

[aspen]

Hi Angelina - I am well - how are you?

 

[Angelina]

I am awesome thank you. I have been really busy lately though!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Justification by comparison is justification. There is no justification for abuse in any setting, BoL, sorry.
Jesus was a Jew who did not justify the abuses of clericalism in the Temple. PERIOD.

I rest my case

Perhaps you have a problem reading because I wasn't justifying ANYBODY's behavior.
I specifically pointed that out - and you dishonestly ignored it.

I merely stated that it is only blind and hateful anti-Catholics who refuse to see the same filth in their OWN backyards that they accuse the Catholic Church of.

 

[pia]

Having spent a couple of weeks now reading through a lot of the material posted on this forum, I can but weep. The following part of Galatians 5 came to me.....Verse 14 : For ALL the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this :" You shall love your neighbor as yourself."........Verse 15 : But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you become consumed by one another......Seems to me there is an awful lot of 'biting' and 'devouring' going on all throughout these posts...... One other thing came to mind relating more to this particular 'thread' ; 1 John 5 : 7 and 8............7) For there are three that bear witness in Heaven; The Father, The Word and The Holy Spirit, and these three ARE one. 8) And there are three that bear witness on earth; The Spirit, the water and the blood; and these three AGREE as one....... But nowhere in the Bible or anywhere else that I am aware of, does it say :" The mother Mary, and the pope and the catholic church ( you can put ANY organized religious institution in place of catholic if you want ), these three bear witness of Me and these three agree as one....If I am not correct in this statement, please enlighten me as to where I can find it.....Last I just want to say that I am absolutely gobsmacked at how many people who write here and present themselves as Christians, seem to have zero idea of The Living Resurrected Jesus as well as The Holy Spirit, and what Jesus sent Him to us for. Jesus ought not just be a character from the Bible to a Christian, but a living reality who can both hear you and speak to you and in some cases even show Himself to you ( if or when He deems it necessary ), and as far as The Holy Spirit goes, one of the things He was sent to us to do, was to grant us revelation from above, to be our teacher to lead us into the Truth. If we as Christians were to do this, we would always come into agreement, (albeit perhaps at different times), because The Holy Spirit cannot tell anyone a lie, whereas men, whoever they may be, both can and often will tell lies, whether they are aware of it or not........The way things are, we have people being told :" You MUST follow the catholic church, or any other organized religious church. You MUST follow the pope or some self proclaimed prophet, such as the latter day saints or some other man. You MUST follow this doctrine or that doctrine....Whatever happened to doing what Jesus said to do, as in following HIM and letting Him teach us? That way we can be certain of getting it the way God our Father intended, so that we may eventually get to the place of KNOWING ( not having knowledge of ) the whole Truth and KNOWING Jesus, and not just having heard of Him or read about Him. There is a HUGE difference between those two, having knowledge versus knowing. Anyone who reads what I have written here, may say that they have a little knowledge about me, but they can surely never say, that through this they KNOW me, that would be a lie and therefore not from above. You are all precious jewels to our Father, but don't ever think of yourself as a shiny diamond while you look at or treat other believers as mere gravel. That, dear brothers and sisters, would be a grave error to make..... Be blessed IN HIM.

 

[Old Man]

Show me.

Here's a quick summary. Jesus Christ Established a Visible Church On Earth

Basically, it is the hermeneutic of continuity. There is one plan of salvation that started when the Father cursed the serpent in the Garden and made a promise that Eve's seed would be in enmity with the serpent's seed. Slowly, throughout history God revealed Himself to humanity through the chosen people, little by little, until finally, in the fullness of time, the definitive revelation, the Incarnation of the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity was accomplished. There is no "break" between the age of nature and the age of law, and there is no "break" between the age of law and the age of grace. And there is no "break" nor will there be, until the parousia. Through it all, there is a visible, organized, God-led, peopled, institution through which God interacts with his people. First it was just a couple (Adam and Eve), then it was a family (Noah), then it was a tribe(Judges), then it was a nation(Saul), then it was a family of nations (David, Solomon), now it is the world-wide Church. Is there sin in the Church? Of course! Just is there was sin in every institution throughout salvation history but that doesn't negate the fact that it is the instrument through which God acts to save His people. Do all the institutions look the same throughout all the centuries? Of course not! There is development just as with everything else. But Jesus promised to build His Church and to stay with her (His bride) until the consummation of the age. Don't leave Peter because of Judas.

Why did God have to become human flesh? What was the purpose? He could have redeemed us any way He wanted to. Why did He choose this way? Because he created us as flesh and spirit. He knows we live in the flesh, we learn and grow in the material world. So he became man. Throughout history God has always used matter to communicate with us, water, blood, fire, smoke, rocks, hills, animals, trees. Now is no different. He did not become man to found an invisible church. No, he uses matter because we are matter. Visible. Full of signs (sacraments). Led by real living people, not by words on a page.

Why did Jesus live? We know why He died, but what did He live for? What was the mission of His life? If his only purpose was to die, why didn't he just let Herod get him in Bethlehem? Or why not let the people stone him when they wanted to? He kept slipping away and telling folks that he healed not to tell anyone. Why? What was so important that he had to do before he died? The answer lies in the the first time that Jesus prophesied the manner of His death and that He would rise again. Check Matthew 16. Right after Jesus changes Simon's name to Rock (name changes are important, remember), then he is ready to go to Jerusalem one last time. Verse 21: From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised. So the purpose of Jesus' life was to found the Church under his kingship and give her the leadership model for them to follow while He is gone.

Whenever Jesus talks about his kingdom, he is referring to the Church which he is building on the pattern and as a continuation of the Davidic kingdom. Otherwise the prophecies about David's everlasting progeny would be false. Following the Davidic kingdom model, Peter is not the king. Jesus is. Peter is the prime minister. (Apostles are ministers with the power of binding and loosing, Peter is prime minister with the keys) If you read Isaiah 22 you see a great example of a prime minister in the Davidic kingdom. Shebna was thrusted from his office and Eliakim received the keys. He acts with the authority of the King. He opens and none shall shut, he shuts and none shall open. But he is not the king. Jesus, in the line of David, remains king. He appointed Peter and his successors to steward His kingdom until He comes again. (Also, btw, another good example of the Davidic kingdom model being followed in Jesus' kingdom is the queen mother. But that is another thread.)

 

[Job]

Here's a quick summary. Jesus Christ Established a Visible Church On Earth

Basically, it is the hermeneutic of continuity. There is one plan of salvation that started when the Father cursed the serpent in the Garden and made a promise that Eve's seed would be in enmity with the serpent's seed. Slowly, throughout history God revealed Himself to humanity through the chosen people, little by little, until finally, in the fullness of time, the definitive revelation, the Incarnation of the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity was accomplished. There is no "break" between the age of nature and the age of law, and there is no "break" between the age of law and the age of grace. And there is no "break" nor will there be, until the parousia. Through it all, there is a visible, organized, God-led, peopled, institution through which God interacts with his people. First it was just a couple (Adam and Eve), then it was a family (Noah), then it was a tribe(Judges), then it was a nation(Saul), then it was a family of nations (David, Solomon), now it is the world-wide Church. Is there sin in the Church? Of course! Just is there was sin in every institution throughout salvation history but that doesn't negate the fact that it is the instrument through which God acts to save His people. Do all the institutions look the same throughout all the centuries? Of course not! There is development just as with everything else. But Jesus promised to build His Church and to stay with her (His bride) until the consummation of the age. Don't leave Peter because of Judas.

Why did God have to become human flesh? What was the purpose? He could have redeemed us any way He wanted to. Why did He choose this way? Because he created us as flesh and spirit. He knows we live in the flesh, we learn and grow in the material world. So he became man. Throughout history God has always used matter to communicate with us, water, blood, fire, smoke, rocks, hills, animals, trees. Now is no different. He did not become man to found an invisible church. No, he uses matter because we are matter. Visible. Full of signs (sacraments). Led by real living people, not by words on a page.

Why did Jesus live? We know why He died, but what did He live for? What was the mission of His life? If his only purpose was to die, why didn't he just let Herod get him in Bethlehem? Or why not let the people stone him when they wanted to? He kept slipping away and telling folks that he healed not to tell anyone. Why? What was so important that he had to do before he died? The answer lies in the the first time that Jesus prophesied the manner of His death and that He would rise again. Check Matthew 16. Right after Jesus changes Simon's name to Rock (name changes are important, remember), then he is ready to go to Jerusalem one last time. Verse 21: From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised. So the purpose of Jesus' life was to found the Church under his kingship and give her the leadership model for them to follow while He is gone.

Whenever Jesus talks about his kingdom, he is referring to the Church which he is building on the pattern and as a continuation of the Davidic kingdom. Otherwise the prophecies about David's everlasting progeny would be false. Following the Davidic kingdom model, Peter is not the king. Jesus is. Peter is the prime minister. (Apostles are ministers with the power of binding and loosing, Peter is prime minister with the keys) If you read Isaiah 22 you see a great example of a prime minister in the Davidic kingdom. Shebna was thrusted from his office and Eliakim received the keys. He acts with the authority of the King. He opens and none shall shut, he shuts and none shall open. But he is not the king. Jesus, in the line of David, remains king. He appointed Peter and his successors to steward His kingdom until He comes again. (Also, btw, another good example of the Davidic kingdom model being followed in Jesus' kingdom is the queen mother. But that is another thread.)

I followed your link and when I saw the word catholic, I stopped.

I don't want the catholic version of the truth. You said I can't know or worship God unless I belong to a religious organization. You said God set it up that way. I want to see the scripture that states I need to belong to an organization.

And please, no more catholic material. I'm not a fan

m

 

[Old Man]

And please, no more catholic material. I'm not a fan

m

Then you better stop reading the New Testament. Written by, disseminated by, read in local churches by, preserved by, collected by, ratified by... the Catholic Church.

Where do you get the notion that Sacred Scripture is the inerrant word of God? (I agree that it is, I just wonder why you think that it is).

 

[Old Man]

And please, no more catholic material. I'm not a fan

m

If you want me to answer, then you're going to get Catholic material. I'm Catholic, so whatever I type is going to be Catholic. Care to rephrase?

 

[mjrhealth]

'm Catholic, so whatever I type is going to be Catholic. Care to rephrase?

Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

I guess you found another way.

Joh 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
Joh 10:2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
Joh 10:3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

and teh reason those who are His will not follow after men and His religion

Joh 10:4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
Joh 10:5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

And so few follow Him for they know not His voice.