Catholics

[mjrhealth]

proof. I asked for evidence.

proof
pruːf/
noun
noun: proof; plural noun: proofs
1.
evidence or argument establishing a fact or the truth of a statement.
"you will be asked to give proof of your identity"
synonyms: evidence, verification, corroboration, authentication, confirmation, certification, validation, attestation, demonstration, substantiation, witness, testament; More

 

[epostle1]

You mean like the homosexual priests that are raping little boys and the billions of dollars the church is using to try and cover it up? Is that the kind of troubles you mean?

.004% OF CLERGY GUILTY OF ABUSE
Bill Donohue comments on the 2016 Annual Report on clergy sexual abuse in the Catholic Church:

The latest audit of the Catholic clergy involved in the sexual abuse of minors shows that there were two new substantiated cases made during the period of July 1, 2015 through June 30, 2016 against 52,238 priests and deacons. That comes to .004 percent of the clergy.

Though the report does not mention it, we know of no other institution in the United States, secular or religious, which has a better record than the Catholic Church today when it comes to the sexual abuse of minors by adult employees.

There was a total of twenty-five new allegations made by minors during this one-year time period. Of that number, two were substantiated; eight were still being investigated; eleven were unsubstantiated or unable to be proven; two were referred to a religious order; one was referred to a diocese; and one investigation had to be postponed.

Overall, a total of 728 allegations were made in the year of the study, almost all from previous years. Most of the alleged offenders—80 percent of them—are either dead, already removed from ministry, or missing.

As always, almost 8 in 10 of the victims were male (78%), and the vast majority (85%) were postpubescent.

This report, as well as all previous reports, fails to draw the obvious conclusion: The sex abuse scandal in the Catholic Church has been driven largely by homosexuals (though over the past year thirteen of the alleged new victims were male, and twelve were female). The reasons for not facing up to this fact cannot be justified on the basis of science.

The report mentions that sixteen priests or deacons were returned to ministry over the year the audit was conducted. We need to know more about them. Were there sixteen different lawyers who sued them, or did a few lawyers do most of the suing? What happened, if anything, to the accusers? Are some of them recidivists, accusers from previous years? Most important, how are these maligned priests doing now that they have been returned to ministry?

These questions are never asked, never mind answered. True victims of sexual abuse deserve our compassion and aid, but so do priests and deacons who have had their reputations damaged, if not ruined, by false claims.

 

[epostle1]

Job, do you have a church or are you Christian in your own mind?

You are attempting to step on our necks to gain higher moral ground. It's disgraceful. Plus it won't work. We don't step on peoples necks with false videos. We want everybody to gain higher moral ground.

Groupie bless-me-club feel-good independent non-denom bible cults, founded in the last 10 years, don't have ministers, so they are exempt from all sex abuse. ?
There Is More Sexual Abuse In The Protestant Churches Than Catholic (Protestant link)

I think you want me to post more links.

 

[mjrhealth]

gh the report does not mention it, we know of no other institution in the United States, secular or religious, which has a better record than the Catholic Church today when it comes to the sexual abuse of minors by adult employees.

But doesnt you church make the claim" Hell will not prevail" teh fact it has happened means it has. doesnt it??

 

[epostle1]

You mean like the homosexual priests that are raping little boys and the billions of dollars the church is using to try and cover it up? Is that the kind of troubles you mean?

We know from the John Jay College of Criminal Justice investigation into this matter that almost all of the cases of the sexual abuse of minors that took place in Catholic institutions occurred between 1965 and 1985. (Job harps on 50 year old accusations)
By contrast, in the last five years, the average number of credible accusations made against 40,000 priests is exactly 7.6. Currently, it's down to .004%. No matter what number you pick, there is no entity in the United States today, private or public, that can match this record..

The Catholic Church's record of aggressive and proactive protective measures is unparalleled in any organization today. Since the beginning of the abuse crisis, the Catholic Church:

-has instituted a "zero tolerance" policy in which any credibly accused priest is immediately
removed from ministry. Law enforcement is also notified;

-has trained over 5 million children in giving them skills to protect them from abuse;

-has trained over 2 million adults, including 99 percent of all priests, in recognizing signs of
abuse;

-has conducted over 2 million background checks, including those in the intensified screening
process for aspiring seminarians and priests;

-has installed "Victim Assistance Coordinators" in every diocese, "assuring victims that they
will be heard";

-has conducted annual independent audits of all dioceses to monitor compliance with the
groundbreaking*2002 Charter for Protection of Children and Young People;
(that anti-Catholics don't want to hear about)

-has instituted in all dioceses abuse review boards – often composed of child welfare experts,
child psychologists, and abuse experts – to examine any claims of abuse against priests.

- the slightest suspicion of wrongdoing must be reported to the police, by order of canon law.

No other organization even comes close to implementing the measures the Catholic Church has taken to protect children in its care. In this regard, the Catholic Church in the 21st century is the model for other institutions to follow in the safeguarding of youth.

Catholic sex abuse facts :: Fast Facts from TheMediaReport.com*<not a Catholic site

Job, your stake fires are burning low...'better get more wood.

 

[epostle1]

It's not childish if it's true.

It is ridiculous and anachronistic to expect modern treatment for cases that happened back in the 1960s and 1970s, when the standard treatment prescribed by therapists and psychiatrists of the time who were advising the Catholic Church as well as Protestants, Jewish leaders, teachers, coaches, fathers, uncles, etc. (who had equal or higher abuse rates) was to give them counseling and then reassigning them.

Most bishops in the 1960s and 1970s (when the majority of the abuse cases occurred) were simply incompetent or unqualified to handle the situation. They were bishops after all. Instead, they simply followed the prescribed treatment given by the counselors and psychiatrists of the time: require the abuser to undergo counseling and move him to another assignment in an attempt to break the abuse cycle. Once again, this was the standard method of treatment for the era, not just for the Catholic Church, but for schools, sports teams as well as any other institution which had cases of abuse (including Protestants). Remember, until 1974, the APA (American Psychiatric Association) taught and treated homosexuality as a mental disorder.

The Catholic Church today is the model for the protection of children. The rates of abuse within the Catholic Church in the 1960s and 1970s was no different than any other religious group, including Jews and Protestants. The real reason why the Catholic Church was singled out, aside from her assets, is because of a hatred for her doctrine. The world cannot stand the Church's teaching on celibacy, an all male clergy, and her opposition to homosexuality. It is for these reasons, and these reasons alone, that the secular world will try and make the claim that celibacy led to the abuse scandal and that an all male celery makes abuse all the more likely to occur.
Campion

BTW, legal litigation is not covering anything up.

 

[Job]

I think I'll be bowing out of this conversation. It's not like I haven't had it before. They all end the same. The truth packs a punch and feelings get hurt.

 

[Mungo]

I didn't ask you for proof. I asked for evidence. .

lol, priceless. My bad, sorry

proof
pruːf/
noun
noun: proof; plural noun: proofs
1.
evidence or argument establishing a fact or the truth of a statement.
"you will be asked to give proof of your identity"
synonyms: evidence, verification, corroboration, authentication, confirmation, certification, validation, attestation, demonstration, substantiation, witness, testament; More

Don't you guys understand the difference between evidence and proof?
I hope you never have to serve on a jury.

bbyrd009 raised this in a legal context. In such a context evidence is presented, examined, challenged and perhaps refuted.
Only when that process is complete is a decision made (by a judge or jury) as to whether the evidence that remains amounts to proof.

 

[epostle1]

I think I'll be bowing out of this conversation. It's not like I haven't had it before. They all end the same. The truth packs a punch and feelings get hurt.

Do you mean the truth about the obelisk never being used as an idol, or the truth about using 50-60 year old sex scandals as a bat to beat Catholics with, only to have it backfire? That truth?

 

[bbyrd009]

Don't you guys understand the difference between evidence and proof?
I hope you never have to serve on a jury.

bbyrd009 raised this in a legal context. In such a context evidence is presented, examined, challenged and perhaps refuted.
Only when that process is complete is a decision made (by a judge or jury) as to whether the evidence that remains amounts to proof.

ok ty.

 

[Job]

Do you mean the truth about the obelisk never being used as an idol,

It was and still is an idol. Your links aren't the only Catholic answers page on the net. Perhaps you should do some surfing to see what your other brothers and sister catholics are saying about that idol.

or the truth about using 50-60 year old sex scandals as a bat to beat Catholics with, only to have it backfire?

But it didn't backfire. You instantly stepped forward to defend something that is indefensible.

That shows me where your heart is.

Instead of defending your stance with cut and paste from catholic websites, why don't you use the bible as a defense for your practices? You might learn something.
.

 

[bbyrd009]

Do you mean the truth about the obelisk never being used as an idol, or the truth about using 50-60 year old sex scandals as a bat to beat Catholics with, only to have it backfire? That truth?

you would surely do better to acknowledge the systemic problem up front, rather than become an apologist for it. One single solitary abuser in an institution supposedly dedicated to the spiritual would be a grave problem and a sign, imo.

Your characterization of ".004%" or whatever is an insult, as is this "the RCC is a shining example of the right way to deal with abuse" yack, that just steals your veracity in other places. You cannot help but sound just like the government whitewashing its activities.

 

[Mungo]

It was and still is an idol.
.

A claim for which you have provided no evidence.

 

[Mungo]

you would surely do better to acknowledge the systemic problem up front, rather than become an apologist for it. One single solitary abuser in an institution supposedly dedicated to the spiritual would be a grave problem and a sign, imo.

Well imo your imo's are worthless so we can ignore them.

 

[Mungo]

Instead of defending your stance with cut and paste from catholic websites, why don't you use the bible as a defense for your practices? You might learn something.
.

Do you mean like
In that day there will be an altar to the LORD in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar to the Lord at its border. It will be a sign and a witness to the Lord of hosts in the land of Egypt (Is 19:19-20)

WOW - a pillar to the Lord, and a pillar that is a witness as well.

 

[Mungo]

It's not childish if it's true.

It's childish because its like children do when they have lost an argument. They switch to something else to whinge about.

Or if you prefer the adult version, your post was "switch and bait" or colloquially the "dead cat" argument.

 

[bbyrd009]

Well imo your imo's are worthless so we can ignore them.

("now we see the violence inherent in the system.")ok, ty, sorry if you felt i was attacking or something, by all means do what you think is best ok. If you think justifying butt-touchers is the way to go, then go for it.

 

[Mungo]

("now we see the violence inherent in the system.")ok, ty, sorry if you felt i was attacking or something, by all means do what you think is best ok. If you think justifying butt-touchers is the way to go, then go for it.

Go and lie down in a darkened room for while. It might help you.

 

[bbyrd009]

Go and lie down in a darkened room for while. It might help you.

you don't think that maybe this superiority complex thingy is part of the problem? It's just mostly that it would be refreshing to hear a Catholic actually admit to some responsibility every now and then, Mungo. People understand that no one is perfect ok.

 

[epostle1]

It was and still is an idol. Your links aren't the only Catholic answers page on the net. Perhaps you should do some surfing to see what your other brothers and sister catholics are saying about that idol.

You need to do some real research from objective unbiased sources and find out how wrong you are.

But it didn't backfire. You instantly stepped forward to defend something that is indefensible.

I never claimed sex crimes were defensible, and I never denied they happened. I simply exposed your outdated sadism. Sadism is deriving pleasure from inflicting pain on others, and when it comes to Catholics, you get pleasure out of inflicting a sort of pain on Catholics (in the name of Jesus). It's your religion and you do it with lies and falsehoods. Yes, it did backfire.

That shows me where your heart is.

Your psychotic irrational hatred for Catholicism shows me where your heart is. Anti-Catholic venom is addictive so you will probably run and mainline more.

Instead of defending your stance with cut and paste from catholic websites, why don't you use the bible as a defense for your practices? You might learn something..

How about this one:
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. (Exodus 20:16)