Catholics

[Mungo]

What did pagans usually do with their stone monuments?

We don't know it was a pagan monument since we do not know what it was made for -AS YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD SEVERAL TIMES ALREADY.

Pagans probably used stone for many of the things Christians use stone for. What is your point (if you actually have one).

 

[Mungo]

A pagan monument dedicated to Christians...
.

Another example of your dishonesty
kepha didn't say it was a pagan monument.

 

[Mungo]

A pillar of stone that is pagan in nature. Why was this "lump of stone" revered instead of destroyed. What made this stone special?

kepha told you that in post #31. Go and read it.

 

[Mungo]

#1 When was the first time tongues were used in the official Catholic church?

Pentecost.

 

[eldios]

Thanks for sharing. I believe in God's gift of tongues of other men's lips to speak unto the people. There is another supernatural tongue in the world that is just babbling nonsense which is not of Him at all, but as you say, of the devil.

Any Catholic care to answer the questions in post #58 ? Or some of them.. or even one? You are free not to. You are free to research any of them too.

All "babbling" is from Satan and the beast that has nothing to do with us servants preaching the gospel of God.

 

[Job]

We don't know it was a pagan monument since we do not know what it was made for -AS YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD SEVERAL TIMES ALREADY.

Are you sure?

we can be sure that it was made by pagans,

The obelisk fails this definition because it is a historical monument and nothing more.

 

[Job]

kepha didn't say it was a pagan monument.

He said it was a monument, you said it was pagan.

Monument.....Pagan...

Pagan Monument.
.

 

[Old Man]

Thank you for your response.
So, if a Catholic Priest does not "intend to do what the Church intends" at the words of Consecration, that particular Mass is invalid?

I would say yes.

 

[Old Man]

About the obelisk in St. Peter's Square.

The way I understand it, this obelisk was there at the time when Peter was martyred. The story goes that it was the last thing Peter saw before he left this mud ball. That's why it remains to this day.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Pentecost.

Thanks for sharing your opinion.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

All "babbling" is from Satan and the beast that has nothing to do with us servants preaching the gospel of God.

The event at Pentecost of Acts 2nd chapter in the N.T. would disagree with you.

 

[Old Man]

#1 When was the first time tongues were used in the official Catholic church?

#2 How was tongues obtained in the early Catholic church?

#3 Did the Catholic Church ever used tongues as a sign or proof that they were keeping the doctrines within the Church?

#4 Do Catholics teach today to seek the gifts of the Spirit by asking the Holy Spirit Himself?

#5 Do the Catholic Church today still ask the Holy Spirit to come even though they know He is in them?

#6 What do you as a Catholic, think of cafeteria Catholics who do not believe everything catholicism teaches, but some of it?

#7 Do you as a Catholic know any Catholic in here that believes that he or she is not saved yet and why?

1. Pentecost.
2. Read Acts 19.
3. no. It's a gift for the building up of the church.
4. yes
5. yes
6. They are not living up to their potential. For whatever reason, they were poorly catechized and think they can choose what to believe rather than conforming their will to the Truth.
7. Salvation is a process. True: Christ died once for all. However, each individual needs to appropriate that salvation to himself. We do that in the Church through the Sacraments. Baptism, Confirmation and Eucharist initiate us into the Church. Matrimony and Holy Orders consecrate our life mission. And Penance and Sacrament of the Sick heal us. For me, I try to follow Christ in my daily walk, and I receive that Sacraments, ( Eucharist and Penance) regularly. If I am blessed with the grace of final perseverance I will die in friendship with God and be welcomed into eternal beatitude.

However, there is always a possibility that I can fall away from the faith and lose my salvation. So I have to persevere to the end.

 

[eldios]

The event at Pentecost of Acts 2nd chapter in the N.T. would disagree with you.

Were you there when that "lie" was happening?

 

[Mungo]

He said it was a monument, you said it was pagan.

Monument.....Pagan...

Pagan Monument.
.

2+2=5

 

[Job]

2+2=5

I love it when a plan comes together...

 

[tabletalk]

I would say yes.

This from Jimmy Akin, on May 3,2016: "What if my priest doesn't believe in transubstantiation? Does the consecration still take place?"

The answer is that it does. It is not necessary for the priest to have the specific intention that transubstantiation take place so long as he has the generalintention to celebrate the sacrament of the Eucharist, even if he has a very erroneous understanding of that sacrament. "

So, it seems as if the Orthodox have a valid Eucharist.

 

[epostle1]

I thought it was a lump of stone. And if it's not a pagan idol, it's a pagan something because the pagans built it.
A pagan monument dedicated to Christians...
.

Changing the definition of idol isn't going to make your case.

"Turretinfan" Calls a Statue of Our Lord Jesus an "Idol" While His Buddy Bishop James White Praises the Statues of Calvin, Farel, Beza, and Knox

(6-8-10)

I'm not kidding folks, TAO (always affectionately known in these quarters as "The Anonymous One") actually did this. Reporting on a story about a statue of Christ being struck by lightning and collapsing, he put up a post entitled "Gideon Would be Pleased . . . " that is (he continues in his post), "... by this report of God's destruction of an idol." He classifies this under the blog category of "Idolatry."
A certain extreme faction of Reformed Protestants are iconoclasts. Since Job is so concerned about idolatry and statues, perhaps he should also expose the serious idolatry (i.e., consistently applying his own opinions) of his friend and idol, Bishop James White, who proudly displayed ("Reformation Wall" -- 6-19-07) a photograph of idols (?) Calvin, Farel, Beza, and Knox (so-called "reformers" all) from Geneva.

Bishop White (no iconoclast he!) adoringly commented on the idols thusly:

". . . the famed "Reformation Wall" . . . I've seen it many times, . . . For those who do not recognize the great Reformers by face, from left to right we have Guilluame Farel, the fiery Reformer of Geneva who struck fear in Calvin's heart; then John Calvin himself; next to him Theodore Beza, Calvin's successor at Geneva, and finally the fiery John Knox, reformer of Scotland, . . ."

That's fine and dandy, but a statue of our Lord Jesus Christ?! Now, that is clearly a transgression of God's laws, so that God has to strike it down in judgment. The idols of Calvin, Farel, Beza, and Knox are preserved by God because they are, you see, good Protestant idols (just like the little statues of Mary in the manger every Christmas in millions of Protestant homes!). Statues of our Lord and Savior and Redeemer and God the Son, Jesus Christ, on the other hand, are evil, pagan "Catholic" idols (even though the one struck down was at a Protestant church).

Ironically, one of the sculptors of the "Reformation Wall" in Geneva (built in 1909) was Paul Landowski (1875-1961): a Frenchman of Polish descent, who also collaborated in designing the famous 1931 Christ the Redeemer statue in Rio de Janeiro: one of the New Seven Wonders of the World. The other sculptor was Frenchman Henri Bouchard (1875-1960).

​

Yet some of the anti-Catholics would have us believe that the statue of Christ (or the obelisk in St. Peter's Square) is an evil idol, while the statues of Calvin, Farel, Beza, and Knox (made in part by the same sculptor) are glorious wonderworks of Protestant devotion and most fitting for the purpose of thankful appreciation for the Protestant Revolution.
Dave Armstrong
And some iconoclastic anti-Catholics are stupid enough to think the obelisk in St. Peter's Square is regarded as an idol.

The obelisk had been put up in Heliopolis by Caius Cornelius Gallus, a Roman prefect to Egypt who had erected many such monuments to his own glory before he fell into disfavor and committed suicide in 27 B.C. So it turns out that the obelisk never was connected with pagan worship. It was just a soapbox that some politician used to put his name out for everyone to see, just like those huge "Jesse White, Secretary of State" signs at every drivers license facility in Illinois.
Still, it was an inanimate "witness" to the persecuted Christians of the 1st 3 centuries, the Church Job has nothing to do with.

 

[tabletalk]

Changing the definition of idol isn't going to make your case.

"Turretinfan" Calls a Statue of Our Lord Jesus an "Idol" While His Buddy Bishop James White Praises the Statues of Calvin, Farel, Beza, and Knox

(6-8-10)

I'm not kidding folks, TAO (always affectionately known in these quarters as "The Anonymous One") actually did this. Reporting on a story about a statue of Christ being struck by lightning and collapsing, he put up a post entitled "Gideon Would be Pleased . . . " that is (he continues in his post), "... by this report of God's destruction of an idol." He classifies this under the blog category of "Idolatry."
A certain extreme faction of Reformed Protestants are iconoclasts. Since Job is so concerned about idolatry and statues, perhaps he should also expose the serious idolatry (i.e., consistently applying his own opinions) of his friend and idol, Bishop James White, who proudly displayed ("Reformation Wall" -- 6-19-07) a photograph of idols (?) Calvin, Farel, Beza, and Knox (so-called "reformers" all) from Geneva.

Bishop White (no iconoclast he!) adoringly commented on the idols thusly:

". . . the famed "Reformation Wall" . . . I've seen it many times, . . . For those who do not recognize the great Reformers by face, from left to right we have Guilluame Farel, the fiery Reformer of Geneva who struck fear in Calvin's heart; then John Calvin himself; next to him Theodore Beza, Calvin's successor at Geneva, and finally the fiery John Knox, reformer of Scotland, . . ."

That's fine and dandy, but a statue of our Lord Jesus Christ?! Now, that is clearly a transgression of God's laws, so that God has to strike it down in judgment. The idols of Calvin, Farel, Beza, and Knox are preserved by God because they are, you see, good Protestant idols (just like the little statues of Mary in the manger every Christmas in millions of Protestant homes!). Statues of our Lord and Savior and Redeemer and God the Son, Jesus Christ, on the other hand, are evil, pagan "Catholic" idols (even though the one struck down was at a Protestant church).

Ironically, one of the sculptors of the "Reformation Wall" in Geneva (built in 1909) was Paul Landowski (1875-1961): a Frenchman of Polish descent, who also collaborated in designing the famous 1931 Christ the Redeemer statue in Rio de Janeiro: one of the New Seven Wonders of the World. The other sculptor was Frenchman Henri Bouchard (1875-1960).

​

Yet some of the anti-Catholics would have us believe that the statue of Christ (or the obelisk in St. Peter's Square) is an evil idol, while the statues of Calvin, Farel, Beza, and Knox (made in part by the same sculptor) are glorious wonderworks of Protestant devotion and most fitting for the purpose of thankful appreciation for the Protestant Revolution.
Dave Armstrong
And some iconoclastic anti-Catholics are stupid enough to think the obelisk in St. Peter's Square is regarded as an idol.

The obelisk had been put up in Heliopolis by Caius Cornelius Gallus, a Roman prefect to Egypt who had erected many such monuments to his own glory before he fell into disfavor and committed suicide in 27 B.C. So it turns out that the obelisk never was connected with pagan worship. It was just a soapbox that some politician used to put his name out for everyone to see, just like those huge "Jesse White, Secretary of State" signs at every drivers license facility in Illinois.
Still, it was an inanimate "witness" to the persecuted Christians of the 1st 3 centuries, the Church Job has nothing to do with.

Here is James White's response to Dave Armstrong: James White Promotes Worship of John Calvin! - Alpha and Omega Ministries

 

[epostle1]

It's impossible for you to understand any prophecy written in the OT. All the earthly kingdoms will be destroyed by the kingdom of God which is totally invisible to man.

Instead of just telling me how wrong I am, why don't you tell me your private understanding of Jeremiah 33:17 and Daniel 2:44 that makes sense???

 

[Job]

Still, it was an inanimate "witness" to the persecuted Christians

It's a rock, it didn't witness anything. Inanimate objects can't hear, can't see, can't talk. Calling that rock a witness and setting it up to be revered as something holy or sacred is idolatry.