Chaos Theory What Makes an Accident?

[junobet]

ya, this is a similar treatise, makes most of the same points, a good confirmation imo.

Truth and facts are not what we perceive either to be, iow.
The truth or facts change, as the method of measuring them changes, and etc.

Not sure whether it really makes the same point that you make (my brain shuts down when faced with complicated numbers, so I don’t quite get your point): Having been a university-lecturer on Logic, I’d say Keith Ward is probably quite keen on it. This lecture of his isn’t averse against truth and facts, it says that quantum physics makes belief in God/idealism more logically plausible than a merely mechanical and materialist world view.

I’d say faith doesn’t go against logic, but it surely goes beyond. I’d agree that absolute truth is not attainable for mere human beings in this mortal life of ours, but there is absolute truth, i.e. God.

 

[bbyrd009]

Not sure whether it really makes the same point that you make (my brain shuts down when faced with complicated numbers, so I don’t quite get your point)

ya, i was just posting highlights, so the point might be lost here; the author makes your "complicated numbers" observation also, in leading up to your same conclusion. But at the same time he manages to make a good case for absolute truth being more like a mandelbrot set, even though we tend to claim whatever little piece of the set we can perceive at the moment as absolute truth

 

[bbyrd009]

Lets not conflate sources of uncertainty into one unified explanation.

If you ask a physicist to explain the double slit experiment they will come up with quantum string theory. But ask @ScottA and he will have a better answer. Only one can be correct.

um, maybe if you ask him? lol

 

[bbyrd009]

The edge of the universe
On the previous page we mentioned that the speed of light marks the end of space-time. In the material universe there is nothing — no particle, no signal — that can outrun a photon. In other words, in the material universe there will not ever be anything that knows that a specific photon comes its way. In the human world, however, it's easy to outrun a photon. Just yell, "I'm switching on the light!" at someone. Only humans that are able to engage in an intelligent conversation are able to expect a photon. That's because the human mind exists outside space-time. A Brief History of the End of Time—What exists outside spacetime?
@ScottA

 

[ScottA]

The edge of the universe
On the previous page we mentioned that the speed of light marks the end of space-time. In the material universe there is nothing — no particle, no signal — that can outrun a photon. In other words, in the material universe there will not ever be anything that knows that a specific photon comes its way. In the human world, however, it's easy to outrun a photon. Just yell, "I'm switching on the light!" at someone. Only humans that are able to engage in an intelligent conversation are able to expect a photon. That's because the human mind exists outside space-time. A Brief History of the End of Time—What exists outside spacetime?
@ScottA

Fascinating! And the mind feels no pain.

Imagine the mind who created it. Imagine children after His kind.

But [where], is the question. Without time, where cannot be quantified, nor even identified.

"I am."

 

[bbyrd009]

And the mind feels no pain.

hmm

 

[bbyrd009]

But [where], is the question. Without time, where cannot be quantified, nor even identified.

ah, the author posits the where quite succinctly, it was right around the snip i quoted. Quite elegant, imo, dunno if it's true or not, but it seems to state our perspective quite well, and doesn't violate any Scripture that i can tell

 

[bbyrd009]

"On the previous page we mentioned that the speed of light marks the end of space-time. In the material universe there is nothing — no particle, no signal — that can outrun a photon. In other words, in the material universe there will not ever be anything that knows that a specific photon comes its way. In the human world, however, it's easy to outrun a photon. Just yell, "I'm switching on the light!" at someone. Only humans that are able to engage in an intelligent conversation are able to expect a photon. That's because the human mind exists outside space-time.

Many will argue that mind is the effect of brain activity, and the brain is made from matter that requires space-time, but look at a tree: without the underground roots there is no above ground tree. Still the tree lives in the air and breathes air. It even uses air-dwelling bugs and birds to procreate. Likewise the mind: it requires a space-time vessel to exist (root), but it exists outside space-time (tree).

Mankind is very much alike a forest of whose trees communicate with their roots. After all, every signal (speech, signs, smells, touch) we send across to someone else must travel through space-time. And our collective behavior is also very much mechanical. We respond to stimuli after the rules of cause and effect: if you do this, then I do that. If you produce something that I like, I will buy it from you, so that you can eat..."

or iow a mind must have a medium in which to manifest, space-time, even though the mind is demonstrably outside of space time (or "runs at light speed," where all space becomes zero and time stops)

 

[bbyrd009]

Without time, where cannot be quantified, nor even identified.

which is why you get so much resistance from me at this point, yes; i am obv misunderstanding you at some point, which is why i tagged you here. Without spacetime we have no medium in which to even operate, bc it is spacetime into which we communicate, or put another way, time and distance do not even become manifest until we have another soul or body to interact with; a star is X light years away, i told Bob X yesterday, i passed Bob about 2 miles back, about 5 minutes ago, hi Bob, there you are, and here i am, like that.

it is tempting to imagine that these interactions could occur outside of spacetime, but this is likely an illusion i guess.
Imo this would likely be another expression for God, if anything.
Tbh i'm not sure God could interact with a soul outside of spacetime; the interaction is literally what creates the space-time
i certainly don't know, but it fits with why we could not rebound (repent) after death, i guess, might even be
the night that is coming, when no one can work

 

[bbyrd009]

i guess that all sounds really new-agey or whatever, but another way to perceive that is that you are just a mind operating outside of spacetime, until you have an interaction with another soul, "Hey mom, come look!" which requires spacetime to manifest in. We just don't talk about it/perceive it in this way, usually, so it is like a fish describing water, in a sense

 

[lforrest]

One can not reliably predict the proton, they can only assume. As someone could have turned off the power and you would get no light when the switch is toggled.

 

[lforrest]

i guess that all sounds really new-agey or whatever, but another way to perceive that is that you are just a mind operating outside of spacetime, until you have an interaction with another soul, "Hey mom, come look!" which requires spacetime to manifest in. We just don't talk about it/perceive it in this way, usually, so it is like a fish describing water, in a sense

I think your trees are upside-down.

 

[bbyrd009]

I think your trees are upside-down.

well, these are not mine anyway, they just verify previous theories for me,
but if you could be more specific as to what you perceive as upside down we might at least get another valid perspective here.

 

[bbyrd009]

I think your trees are upside-down.

also, this is by way of reconciling with Scott, i don't generally give this any brain space, it's just something i came across searching for something else. I would not even try to approach this concept with someone still enmeshed in the Death Cult wadr

 

[ScottA]

ah, the author posits the where quite succinctly, it was right around the snip i quoted. Quite elegant, imo, dunno if it's true or not, but it seems to state our perspective quite well, and doesn't violate any Scripture that i can tell

And where was that - what did he say?

 

[bbyrd009]

And where was that - what did he say?

well, i posted another snip in #48, or you could read the link, but we could even just go from our observations; in order to interact with another mind, spacetime is essentially created; a single mind not interacting at all does not need spacetime, and exists outside of spacetime, for all intents and purposes; this is another way to express "death."

The interactions--say, the one between you and i going on right now--manifest the spacetime that we are currently interacting in; this is "life." Meditation is leaving spacetime, in a sense, although i guess the author puts it better

 

[bbyrd009]

And where was that - what did he say?

ah, you might start from here, these are quick reads, you might have to go to #2 or 3 to get the entire gist, i think i was snipping from #3, but here's #1 The End of Time; What is it, and should we be worried?

 

[lforrest]

also, this is by way of reconciling with Scott, i don't generally give this any brain space, it's just something i came across searching for something else. I would not even try to approach this concept with someone still enmeshed in the Death Cult wadr

Wadr "With all due respect," those who save their life will lose it and those who lose it for his sake will find it.

Lets assume all things are a manifestation of what is on high. Then we have a backwards understanding of reality, the spirit should be considered like the roots and most prominent. It is with the spirit we commune with God. If the tree is uprooted it will die.

The soul or (mind) is like the trunk, passing nutrients and moisture up the tree. Trees will get sick or die and insects take up residence, which draws woodpeckers.

Then there are the branches, which are the physical. The wind will blow and trees that are close together will brush eachother.

Sometimes a fire will spread, and engolf the whole forest. There are many potential metaphors.

 

[bbyrd009]

those who save their life will lose it and those who lose it for his sake will find it.

been thinking about this, but i don't really see how it applies?
Maybe you could fill in the bridge a little more here? ty

 

[lforrest]

been thinking about this, but i don't really see how it applies?
Maybe you could fill in the bridge a little more here? ty

Its a responce to your comment about a "death cult." Elaborate and I may be able to figure out how it applies. If you speak of Christianity you may be right, in at least some way. As martars do not deny the faith to even save themselves from death.

How does martyrdom weigh on the fruit scale you use for what is good?