Charles Spurgeon's Sanity Litmus Test (are you insane?)

[VictoryinJesus]

I don't see that as "saved and unsaved"!
God called the Children Of Israel...but he only chose Livi as the priesthood.
God gave Gideon an army...but He only chose 300 for the battle.
Jesus called the 12, but he only chose 3 to go up the mountain with Him.

All the rest were still His, but a few He always chose to do a certain task or calling.

Bless you...Helen

The question may be elected or chosen for what purposes?

1 Corinthians 4:7-13 KJV
[7] For who maketh thee to differ from another ? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it , why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it ? [8] Now ye are full, now ye are rich, ye have reigned as kings without us: and I would to God ye did reign, that we also might reign with you. [9] For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men. [10] We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised. [11] Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace; [12] And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it: [13] Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.



Romans 8:35-36 KJV
[35] Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? [36] As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.


I have never understood a person eagerness to be called "a prophet" in today's world, when prophets are hated and killed.

Chosen for what?


You said: "All the rest were still His, but a few He always chose to do a certain task or calling." It seems that way.

 

[KBCid]

There it is: mankind convincing himself there is something desirable or unique within that makes him appealing to God. God saw you and said "that one has some good qualities I can work with...I choose him".

What I write is from the Spirit not my own desires.

Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

If God had not found something in Jacob he liked and something in Esau he hated then the above would not have been written.

14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

God can see what is in the soul of a person. The flesh has no good things because it has no cognitive mind to be able to make a moral choice but the soul of man that came directly from God can make such choices and God can see these things where we can't.

1 Sam 16:7 But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.

Jeremiah 17:10 "I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give to each man according to his ways, According to the results of his deeds.

1 Kings 8:39 then hear in heaven Your dwelling place, and forgive and act and render to each according to all his ways, whose heart You know, for You alone know the hearts of all the sons of men,

Jeremiah 12:3 But You know me, O LORD; You see me; And You examine my heart's attitude toward You Drag them off like sheep for the slaughter And set them apart for a day of carnage!

1 Chronicles 28:9 "As for you, my son Solomon, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a whole heart and a willing mind; for the LORD searches all hearts, and understands every intent of the thoughts If you seek Him, He will let you find Him; but if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever.

Gen 20:3But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, thou art but a dead man, for the woman which thou hast taken; for she is a man's wife. 4But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, Lord, wilt thou slay also a righteous nation? 5Said he not unto me, She is my sister? and she, even she herself said, He is my brother: in the integrity of my heart and innocency of my hands have I done this. 6And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her.

"That one has no desireable qualities. I don't choose that one." There is nothing good in us.

As you can clearly see in the above references men can and do have desirable qualities that God loves and since he can see our inner self he knows who are evil and who are righteous in their intent.
Your blanket statement that "There is nothing good in us" was intended for the flesh only because of the nature of the flesh but, the soul / spirit can choose to overrule the desires of the flesh and it can choose to love the Father and Christ above all else and it can choose to love its neighbor and lastly it can choose to stop sinning because it loves God's way and desires to be like God.

Free will. If man in his complete flesh and spirit were totally evil there would be no reason for God to look at the heart and weigh it as it would be a senseless action on God's part.

 

[GodsGrace]

I'm sorry but I do not know the concepts of calvinism. What I do know is what scripture says and I quote;
Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Thus we know that God chooses according to his will from among those who he sent the call out to. So can the called do things that will keep them from being chosen?

Romans 12:1-2 ...'I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.'

1 John 2:1,3,4 ...'My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.'

1 John 2:15 ...'Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.'

1 John 4:3,6 ...'Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.'

1 John 5:3 ...'For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.'

1 Thessalonians 4:1,3,7 ...'Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more. For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication. For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.'

Apparently we can do that which God does not like and not be chosen.

Hi KBC
I also agree with @ByGrace that God, throughout history, most probably chose certain persons to do very special tasks, for instance, Moses.

As to Calvin. He believed that God chooses those who will be saved and those who will not be saved. You could look this up someday, it's very interesting but incorrect. Look up TULIP. And you'll find the 5 major points of calvinism, one being that God chose whom to send to heaven without any particular reason. Making Him NOT to be a God of love as the bible teaches.

As to your verse of Mathew 22:24, if you pay close attention to all the other scripture you posted, it is very different. Every other scripture you posted speaks to God's love and to how Jesus helps us and saves us.

Mathew 22:24 is the end of the parable of the Wedding Banquet.
If you notice, the servants were sent out to call in everyone because those that were invited did not come because they were too busy doing other things.

The invited were the Jewish people. The Israelites, the Hebrews, the chosen of God. Chosen to be HIS revelation -- not chosen to be saved, although many of them were and by faith, just as we are. The gentiles, the grafted in people...

So, after they were called, MANY showed up for the Wedding Banquet.
But few were CHOSEN.

But why were they chosen??
Because they had on the proper attire, Jesus, the Christ.
NOT because God arbitrarily chose them for no reason at all.

So, as far as being chosen goes, you didn't pick a good scripture to prove your point. But I'd be much happier if you didn't even have that point of view --- which is not upheld by most of Christianity. The POV of calvinism, that is.

 

[GodsGrace]

What I write is from the Spirit not my own desires.

Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

If God had not found something in Jacob he liked and something in Esau he hated then the above would not have been written.

14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

God can see what is in the soul of a person. The flesh has no good things because it has no cognitive mind to be able to make a moral choice but the soul of man that came directly from God can make such choices and God can see these things where we can't.

1 Sam 16:7 But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.

Jeremiah 17:10 "I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give to each man according to his ways, According to the results of his deeds.

1 Kings 8:39 then hear in heaven Your dwelling place, and forgive and act and render to each according to all his ways, whose heart You know, for You alone know the hearts of all the sons of men,

Jeremiah 12:3 But You know me, O LORD; You see me; And You examine my heart's attitude toward You Drag them off like sheep for the slaughter And set them apart for a day of carnage!

1 Chronicles 28:9 "As for you, my son Solomon, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a whole heart and a willing mind; for the LORD searches all hearts, and understands every intent of the thoughts If you seek Him, He will let you find Him; but if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever.

Gen 20:3But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, thou art but a dead man, for the woman which thou hast taken; for she is a man's wife. 4But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, Lord, wilt thou slay also a righteous nation? 5Said he not unto me, She is my sister? and she, even she herself said, He is my brother: in the integrity of my heart and innocency of my hands have I done this. 6And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her.



As you can clearly see in the above references men can and do have desirable qualities that God loves and since he can see our inner self he knows who are evil and who are righteous in their intent.
Your blanket statement that "There is nothing good in us" was intended for the flesh only because of the nature of the flesh but, the soul / spirit can choose to overrule the desires of the flesh and it can choose to love the Father and Christ above all else and it can choose to love its neighbor and lastly it can choose to stop sinning because it loves God's way and desires to be like God.

Free will. If man in his complete flesh and spirit were totally evil there would be no reason for God to look at the heart and weigh it as it would be a senseless action on God's part.

KBC,
You do well to read and understand what the Holy Spirit wishes you to know.

I'd like to add to the above that God did not hate Esau.
Hate in the O.T. means that God loved less, or that He did not choose that person for a special task. NOT that God hated Esau.

Does God hate anyone?
Does God not love His creation?
He loves everyone, even those who sin - although they do not have His spirit and will not be with Him due to their lack of having the spirit of God.

But God hates no one.
God is love. And love is His nature. And He cannot be separated from His nature.

1 John 4:8
John 3:16
2 Timothy 2:4
etc....

 

[VictoryinJesus]

What I write is from the Spirit not my own desires.

Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

If God had not found something in Jacob he liked and something in Esau he hated then the above would not have been written.

14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

God can see what is in the soul of a person. The flesh has no good things because it has no cognitive mind to be able to make a moral choice but the soul of man that came directly from God can make such choices and God can see these things where we can't.

1 Sam 16:7 But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.

Jeremiah 17:10 "I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give to each man according to his ways, According to the results of his deeds.

1 Kings 8:39 then hear in heaven Your dwelling place, and forgive and act and render to each according to all his ways, whose heart You know, for You alone know the hearts of all the sons of men,

Jeremiah 12:3 But You know me, O LORD; You see me; And You examine my heart's attitude toward You Drag them off like sheep for the slaughter And set them apart for a day of carnage!

1 Chronicles 28:9 "As for you, my son Solomon, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a whole heart and a willing mind; for the LORD searches all hearts, and understands every intent of the thoughts If you seek Him, He will let you find Him; but if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever.

Gen 20:3But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, thou art but a dead man, for the woman which thou hast taken; for she is a man's wife. 4But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, Lord, wilt thou slay also a righteous nation? 5Said he not unto me, She is my sister? and she, even she herself said, He is my brother: in the integrity of my heart and innocency of my hands have I done this. 6And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her.



As you can clearly see in the above references men can and do have desirable qualities that God loves and since he can see our inner self he knows who are evil and who are righteous in their intent.
Your blanket statement that "There is nothing good in us" was intended for the flesh only because of the nature of the flesh but, the soul / spirit can choose to overrule the desires of the flesh and it can choose to love the Father and Christ above all else and it can choose to love its neighbor and lastly it can choose to stop sinning because it loves God's way and desires to be like God.

Free will. If man in his complete flesh and spirit were totally evil there would be no reason for God to look at the heart and weigh it as it would be a senseless action on God's part.

Why was Cain's sacrifice not accepted?

Why did God hate Esau? Why did God love Jacob? Jacob was a scoundrel. Why was Jacob elected of God from the womb?

Genesis 25:26 KJV
[26] And after that came his brother out, and his hand took hold on Esau's heel; and his name was called Jacob: and Isaac was threescore years old when she bare them.

The point is Cain nor Esau had nothing to do with being able to please or not please God of their own will.

God chose. Based off God's provision (which is Christ) and not man's good qualities.

As you can clearly see in the above references men can and do have desirable qualities that God loves and since he can see our inner self he knows who are evil and who are righteous in their intent.
Your blanket statement that "There is nothing good in us" was intended for the flesh only because of the nature of the flesh but, the soul / spirit can choose to overrule the desires of the flesh and it can choose to love the Father and Christ above all else and it can choose to love its neighbor and lastly it can choose to stop sinning because it loves God's way and desires to be like God.

If it is only intended for the flesh
If the "good" soul of a man can choose to overrule the desires of the flesh and can choose to love God...then why does God say you must be born again? You must be given a new birth from above. If there is goodness in a soul that previously hated God...then why must we be "born of God". Born a new creature. Means a new creature. Not the previous or its "good" qualities.

 

[Marymog]

Marriage is a covenant.
Divorce is not allowed in God's eyes.
It's adultery if one of the two has another relationship.
This is why is was forbidden to have that person receive communion...
because it's a mortal sin.

So now a remarried person can receive communion.
Could you please explain how that is NOT changing doctrine and/or dogma??

Are you not aware of everything that is going on in the CC?

Hi GG,

Scripture disagrees with you: And I tell you this, whoever divorces his wife and marries someone else commits adultery--unless his wife has been unfaithful

Please attach a link to a RELIABLE website supporting your statement that The Church has changed it's stance on remarried persons receiving communion. I can not find any change.

IHS....Mary

 

[Marymog]

Hi Beautiful...
I see you are still in discussion with the fruit from the bad tree....
God never has to have his word justified because it is pure and they never change. What God has asserted is evil will always be evil.
The covenant of marriage was instituted by God from the beginning and making a covenant only to break it is anti-God since the marriage instituted by them is a reflection of the heavenly. If one professes to love God they will respect what they instituted.

Have a beautiful day

Fruit from a bad tree?

How do you know your doctrine is infallible?

Mary

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi GG,

Scripture disagrees with you: And I tell you this, whoever divorces his wife and marries someone else commits adultery--unless his wife has been unfaithful

Please attach a link to a RELIABLE website supporting your statement that The Church has changed it's stance on remarried persons receiving communion. I can not find any change.

IHS....Mary

I usually don't ask this MM,
but are you Catholic?

If the answer is yes, are you involved with the church in a personal way?

I ask because I can hardly believe what you've posted.
I will answer accordingly after I know where you stand.

If you prefer not to answer, that's fine too.

 

[Marymog]

I usually don't ask this MM,
but are you Catholic?

If the answer is yes, are you involved with the church in a personal way?

I ask because I can hardly believe what you've posted.
I will answer accordingly after I know where you stand.

If you prefer not to answer, that's fine too.

Hi GG,

You made the original statement that "now a remarried person can receive communion" AND asked the question: Could you please explain how that is NOT changing doctrine and/or dogma??

I would like to resolve that statement and question by you before we move on.

Since I can not find a change in doctrine I feel I asked a legitimate question. I think you know I am a serious and honest person. If I could find the answer myself (doctrine change), I would.

So I say again: Please attach a link to a RELIABLE website supporting your statement that The Church has changed it's stance on remarried persons receiving communion. I can not find any change.

Respectfully, Mary

 

[KBCid]

I don't see that as "saved and unsaved"!
God called the Children Of Israel...but he only chose Livi as the priesthood.
God gave Gideon an army...but He only chose 300 for the battle.
Jesus called the 12, but he only chose 3 to go up the mountain with Him.
All the rest were still His, but a few He always chose to do a certain task or calling.
Bless you...Helen

Matt 7:12Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

This message from Christ is in line with "many are called and few chosen" since he is talking to those who were called.

The concept that all you have to do is believe in him is an error. WE are called to be holy as it is written so thinking that it is ok to continue in sin while professing belief is incorrect. Faith is both a belief and an action based on that belief and Christ has promised the helper to guide you onto the path of righteousness and keep you between the lines.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi GG,

You made the original statement that "now a remarried person can receive communion" AND asked the question: Could you please explain how that is NOT changing doctrine and/or dogma??

I would like to resolve that statement and question by you before we move on.

Since I can not find a change in doctrine I feel I asked a legitimate question. I think you know I am a serious and honest person. If I could find the answer myself (doctrine change), I would.

So I say again: Please attach a link to a RELIABLE website supporting your statement that The Church has changed it's stance on remarried persons receiving communion. I can not find any change.

Respectfully, Mary

Try reading Amoris Laetitea by Pope Francis, written about 2 years ago.
Especially chapter 8 and the footnote.

If you haven't read it yet, it's a small book
Here's chapter 8 from the internet. It's good enough.

I asked if you're Catholic because I'd like to know if you know any priests that are giving communion to remarrieds.

I do.


297.  It is a matter of reaching out to everyone, of needing to help each person find his or her proper way of participating in the ecclesial com-munity and thus to experience being touched by an “unmerited, unconditional and gratuitous” mercy. No one can be condemned for ever, be-cause that is not the logic of the Gospel! Here I am not speaking only of the divorced and re-married, but of everyone, in whatever situation they find themselves. Naturally, if someone flaunts an objective sin as if it were part of the

Christian ideal, or wants to impose something other than what the Church teaches, he or she can in no way presume to teach or preach to others; this is a case of something which separates from the community (cf. Mt 18:17). Such a person needs to listen once more to the Gospel message and its call to conversion. Yet even for that person there can be some way of taking part in the life of community, whether in social service, prayer meetings or another way that his or her own initiative, together with the discernment of the parish priest, may suggest. As for the way of dealing with different “irregular” situations, the Synod Fathers reached a general consensus, which I support: “In considering a pastoral approach towards people who have contracted a civil marriage, who are divorced and remarried, or simply living together, the Church has the responsibility of helping them understand the divine pedagogy of grace in their lives and offering them assistance so they can reach the fullness of God’s plan for them”,328 something which is always possible by the power of the Holy Spirit.

298.  The divorced who have entered a new un-ion, for example, can find themselves in a variety of situations, which should not be pigeonholed or fit into overly rigid classifications leaving no room for a suitable personal and pastoral discernment. One thing is a second union consolidated over time, with new children, proven fidelity, generous self giving, Christian commitment, a consciousness of its irregularity and of the great difficulty of going back without feeling in con-science that one would fall into new sins. The Church acknowledges situations “where, for serious reasons, such as the children’s upbringing, a man and woman cannot satisfy the obligation to separate”.329 There are also the cases of those who made every effort to save their first marriage and were unjustly abandoned, or of “those who have entered into a second union for the sake of the children’s upbringing, and are some-times subjectively certain in conscience that their previous and irreparably broken marriage had never been valid”.330 Another thing is a new un-ion arising from a recent divorce, with all the suffering and confusion which this entails for children and entire families, or the case of someone who has consistently failed in his obligations to the family. It must remain clear that this is not the ideal which the Gospel proposes for marriage and the family. The Synod Fathers stated that the discernment of pastors must always take place “by adequately distinguishing”,331 with an approach which “care-fully discerns situations”.332 We know that no “easy recipes” exist.333

I'm sure you understand that chapter 8 is longer than the above...
P.S. The change in doctrine is not announced...but it is defacto.
A change HAS occurred.

 

[KBCid]

Hi KBC
I also agree with @ByGrace that God, throughout history, most probably chose certain persons to do very special tasks, for instance, Moses.
As to Calvin. He believed that God chooses those who will be saved and those who will not be saved. You could look this up someday, it's very interesting but incorrect. Look up TULIP. And you'll find the 5 major points of calvinism, one being that God chose whom to send to heaven without any particular reason. Making Him NOT to be a God of love as the bible teaches.

Ahh then I am in complete agreement with you on Calvinism. God does not choose those to be saved prior to their existence. He chooses based on how we turn to him or away from him. We have until death to make the right choices and gain the assistance of the HS but at no time can we presume that we can simply go on sinning day after day "KNOWING" the sins we are committing and expect that he will just fix the problem. We were given free will for a reason.... Just as God has free will so do we as his image have that same trait.

Mathew 22:24 is the end of the parable of the Wedding Banquet.
If you notice, the servants were sent out to call in everyone because those that were invited did not come because they were too busy doing other things.
So, after they were called, MANY showed up for the Wedding Banquet.
But few were CHOSEN.
But why were they chosen??
Because they had on the proper attire, Jesus, the Christ.
NOT because God arbitrarily chose them for no reason at all.

Yes few were chosen out of all that were called and they use the symbolism of attire to define the difference between chosen and not. What you should consider here is why didn't they have the right attire?

Those without the right covering are those who Christ says this too;
Matt 7:22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

There will be a great many who BELIEVE that they are doing exactly as they are supposed to in order to gain salvation and Christ is going to tell them to their face I never knew you. What you must consider is why? If those people believed in Him then how could they not be saved?

If everyone who professes to believe in the Son must be saved then the saying would be;
"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth unto life, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto destruction, and few there be that find it."

But we both know that is false

 

[bbyrd009]

What you should consider here is why didn't they have the right attire?

ha, i love the contrast to "Who told you that you were naked?"
both reaching the same spiritual conclusion

 

[KBCid]

KBC,
You do well to read and understand what the Holy Spirit wishes you to know.
I'd like to add to the above that God did not hate Esau.
Hate in the O.T. means that God loved less, or that He did not choose that person for a special task. NOT that God hated Esau.

If he did not hate Esau then why did he essentially end his heritage?;

Mal 1:1The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.
2I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob, 3And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

God does not arbitrarily do things. There is always a reason.

Does God hate anyone? Does God not love His creation?
He loves everyone, even those who sin - although they do not have His spirit and will not be with Him due to their lack of having the spirit of God. But God hates no one.
God is love. And love is His nature. And He cannot be separated from His nature.

Yes God can hate with a perfect hatred.
Hosea 9:15 All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters.
Deuteronomy 12:31 You must not worship the Lord your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the Lord hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.
Deuteronomy 16:22 Neither shalt thou set thee up any image; which the Lord thy God hateth.
Psalm 5:4 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee. 5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the Lord will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.
Psalm 11:5The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth. 6Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup. 7For the righteous LORD loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright.
Proverbs 6:16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: 17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, 19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

I show scripture after scripture where people who will not turn from sin are hated by God to the point where they take their life. If as you feel that God is only Love then we will live among sin and sinners for eternity.

 

[KBCid]

Why was Cain's sacrifice not accepted?
Why did God hate Esau? Why did God love Jacob? Jacob was a scoundrel. Why was Jacob elected of God from the womb?
Genesis 25:26 KJV
[26] And after that came his brother out, and his hand took hold on Esau's heel; and his name was called Jacob: and Isaac was threescore years old when she bare them.
The point is Cain nor Esau had nothing to do with being able to please or not please God of their own will.
God chose. Based off God's provision (which is Christ) and not man's good qualities.

Because God can see what we can't. Caine ended up killing his brother and had he not had an evil heart then he never would have harmed anyone.
Yes both Caine and Esau could have made different choices but to presume that we are all preset to one side or another is to deny free will.
You can certainly chose to believe according to what you have written or if your right then you have no choice.

If it is only intended for the flesh
If the "good" soul of a man can choose to overrule the desires of the flesh and can choose to love God...then why does God say you must be born again? You must be given a new birth from above. If there is goodness in a soul that previously hated God...then why must we be "born of God". Born a new creature. Means a new creature. Not the previous or its "good" qualities.

To be born again is to have a change of heart from the normal sinful one to one that seeks to be like God. When you make the effort / commitment to turn towards God and away from sin then God will give you the helper to attain that goal since we cannot on our own know how to do it. With Gods help we become a new creature living our lives for God because we love them and it is written in several places that we are to have dominion over our sinful flesh.
Rom 8:12Consequently, brothers, we are not—with respect to human nature, that is—under an obligation to live according to human nature. 13For if you live according to human nature, you are going to die, but if by the Spirit you continuously put to death the activities of the body, you will live. 14For all who are led by God’s Spirit are God’s children.

If you choose to follow God's lead / spirit and turn from following the sinful nature of the flesh then you will become a new creature.

If we have no free choice then answer why this verse?

Galatians 5:19-21Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Of what need is there for giving any warnings to the recipient of such warnings if they have no control to act on the warning?

Galatians 6:8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.

 

[KBCid]

Fruit from a bad tree?
How do you know your doctrine is infallible? Mary

Because its not mine.

 

[KBCid]

ha, i love the contrast to "Who told you that you were naked?" both reaching the same spiritual conclusion

and that conclusion is.... All are naked until they make a change. God will not clothe those who delight in sinning but he will clothe those who delight in being righteous.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

To be born again is to have a change of heart from the normal sinful one to one that seeks to be like God. When you make the effort / commitment to turn towards God and away from sin

Well, why didn't Jesus just tell
nicodemus that. To be born again requires no supernatural act of God...one only needs to turn away from sin and you are born again. And you are given a helper. Turn back to sin, and you loose your salvation. And the helper.



Sounds like man decides.
Not God.
But you have already said that.

 

[KBCid]

Well, why didn't Jesus just tell
nicodemus that. To be born again requires no supernatural act of God...one only needs to turn away from sin and you are born again. And you are given a helper. Turn back to sin, and you loose your salvation. And the helper.
Sounds like man decides. Not God. But you have already said that.

To turn from sins that you know is a first step but to be able to stop sinning altogether requires God's help. Man cannot avoid sinning on his own since you cannot know the mind of God without a direct line to them. The helper is that line and as the name states the helper is indeed a HELPER and not a do it for you because your too lazy to even try because some men said it can't be done. There was one man who showed us that living a righteous life is not only possible but guaranteed as long as you depend on the direction of God's spirit. Christ stated plainly that the Father lived in him and the helper will live in us but it is the choice of the free will to follow the direction or to go against it.
Does it sound like man decides?
Who decides to make the commitment?
Who chooses to repent?
Does God force people to do these things?
IF God is forcing people to be saved then why doesn't everyone say the same thing? why the diversity of doctrine?
is it Gods choice for men to have a multitude of different views about them?

Why would God say that he calls to people if it is not of their own free will that they answer the call?

Man cannot force God to accept them because it is his free will choice to give his gifts to whom he will. Would you give eternal life to a persistent sinner if you were God? Would you give eternal life to one who hates your ways and abhors your presence?

 

[GodsGrace]

Ahh then I am in complete agreement with you on Calvinism. God does not choose those to be saved prior to their existence. He chooses based on how we turn to him or away from him. We have until death to make the right choices and gain the assistance of the HS but at no time can we presume that we can simply go on sinning day after day "KNOWING" the sins we are committing and expect that he will just fix the problem. We were given free will for a reason.... Just as God has free will so do we as his image have that same trait.



Yes few were chosen out of all that were called and they use the symbolism of attire to define the difference between chosen and not. What you should consider here is why didn't they have the right attire?

Those without the right covering are those who Christ says this too;
Matt 7:22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

There will be a great many who BELIEVE that they are doing exactly as they are supposed to in order to gain salvation and Christ is going to tell them to their face I never knew you. What you must consider is why? If those people believed in Him then how could they not be saved?

If everyone who professes to believe in the Son must be saved then the saying would be;
"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth unto life, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto destruction, and few there be that find it."

But we both know that is false

Perfectly said.

The only comment I have to make is that the way you word the "choosing" part does sound calvinistic.

God has already chosen everyone in the sense that HE would like everyone to be saved, but not everyone will choose to be saved.
John 3:16

So the right way to say it would be that WE choose HIM.
That would clarify things.

What you're talking about when speaking about God choosing us, happens at the end of times, and I agree fully with what you've said.
Many are deceived and in danger, as your last paragraph shows.

Good post.