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Charles Spurgeon's Sanity Litmus Test (are you insane?)

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by Phoneman777, Apr 24, 2017.

  1. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    Hi,
    First "Born Again" is not a denomination, as you well know.

    Second, 1 John speaks to this. John is repeating what he learned from Jesus many years before. He's doing his best to explain a couple of ideas and sometimes they get a bit mixed up. Not that John is mixed up...WE are.

    What does 1 John 1:9-10 mean?
    In verse 9 he says that if we confess our sins, which means we sin, Jesus is faithful and just to forgive our sins.

    In verse 10 he says that if we say we have not sinned, we make Jesus to be a liar and His word is not in us.

    So which is it?

    In verse 8 John says that if we say we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

    Apparently you're not very sensitive to sin or you'd understand that you sin every day.

    Why do you need to feel that you don't sin?

    So you never lie?
    You never get mad at anyone.
    You never have a bad thought.
    You don't dislike anyone.
    You never think badly of your mother or father or family member.
    You never arrive late at an appointment and steal the person's time.
    You've never missed ONE service.
    You've never thought the word "GOD"! Even when sick.
    You've never had a sensual thought.
    You've never wished you could have a brand new wallet.

    You see ETW, the CLOSER you get too God, the MORE you feel like a sinner. Because God's light is so bright, you see everly little bit of sinful dust on yourself.

    The farther you are from God, the more you DON'T see yourself as a sinner because you're not in His light.
     
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  2. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    VinJ
    You're already in the Kingdom of God!
    When Jesus began His ministry, remember what He said:

    Mathew 4:17
    "Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand."
    NASB

    Jesus came to forgive the sins of the world, to be our propitiation, but He also came to set up a new Kingdom...the Kingdom of God.
    All believers are part of this Kingdom.

    I know other believers who say that we no longer have the sin nature.
    I learned that we still have it but it is put under submission to God and we are no longer slaves to satan and to sin.

    I've come to not care too much how one understands these insignificant matters. What's important is love, as you've stated. Love God, Love Yourself, Love your neighbor.

    The rest comes naturally.
     
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  3. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    Ahhh.
    So you prefer not to answer to the above.
    Too difficult for you?

    Your non-answer IS your answer.
    WE ALL SIN.
     
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  4. KBCid

    KBCid Well-Known Member

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    God has always had a small group who he preserves in every generation because the majority have fallen away from the intent of the word.
    When Christ came he found that the entire leadership had strayed and had been doing so for quite some time thus he formed a new body to carry the fathers word to the world and just as the first fell away so did those who came after the apostles.
    Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

    Is there only one?

    Heb 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? 14Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
     
  5. Marymog

    Marymog Active Member

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    Hi,

    When you say "mine" does that mean you are able to read scripture and infallibly interpret it all on your own?

    IHS...Mary
     
  6. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    Yes, well...with what's going on in the Protestant churches the CC might be the "remnant". They're falling apart too, but not as much as we are.
    I think it's time for Jesus to come back.



    I said there is only One Holy Spirit.
    What does the above verse prove?
    Are you saying the angels minister to us?
     
  7. KBCid

    KBCid Well-Known Member

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    I know what you said which is why I posed the question.
    Now you are asking me if I am saying that "the angels minister to us" but wasn't my scriptural reference the one that said "Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?"
    I don't speak from my own simplicity, I speak only as the spirit leads. I can only show you what is written it is then in your court to determine what you will do with it from there.

    Let me give you one more thing to consider here. John who wrote Revelation had the Holy spirit right? and it is the holy spirits job to lead him into all truth and to repeat every word that Christ ever said right?

    Rev 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
    9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

    If the Holy spirit is a different entity than the angels who are asserted by God to be the ministering spirits for the heirs of salvation then why would an angel need to take a message to John who we know already had the Holy Spirit and whose job it was to tell John anything that Christ had to say?

    What you are seeing in revelation is Johns Holy Spirit doing his job.
     
  8. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    You said: "You're already in the Kingdom of God!
    When Jesus began His ministry, remember what He said:"

    You are right. We are in the Kingdom of God. Let me ask you this: can sin or anything unrighteous be in the Kingdom of God? Can that which has a sin nature be in the Kingdom?

    Would you agree the flesh of mankind could not fulfill the mosaic law to its fullness? Only Jesus Christ kept the law of God to perfection. Would you agree that the flesh of mankind apart from God is vile and perverted and does have animalistic qualities? Would you agree only that which is "perfect" is within the kingdom?

    Somethings to consider.
    Old testament:

    (Ezekiel 8)
    "Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?
    Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord God. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.
    Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel? For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye."

    This might be where we get messed up. They couldn't. They could not "make you a new heart and a new spirit" ...only God can do that. The OT is God revealing time and time again that the fallen flesh of mankind can not do anything apart from the Power of God. But time and time again Man attempts to prove he doesn't need God.

    Time and time again God tells man what HE is going to do:
    (Ezekiel 11: 19-20) "And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

    God gives us "one heart of flesh"
    whose flesh? Not fallen mans flesh...but Christ's "heart of flesh". Christ heart of flesh(embodiment-the Laws written on heart/not stone tablets)...thereby God causes man to walk in His statues.
    We also are given the "mind of Christ"
    God begat us by the word of truth.
    Which is Christ.
    One body. One heart. One mind. = perfect love/Christ

    Does this new creation (heart, mind, and body) have a sinful nature. Absolutely not. What did God mean when Paul asked three times for the Thorn/Stake lodged in his flesh to be removed? and God told Paul : "MY grace is sufficient."

    Christ is sufficient.

    Forget me. Forget whether or not you believe I measure up to everyone's expectations of a believer. Forget arguments over works and deeds...I am not ever implying: faith does not produce works because it surely does produce works... and fruit...but not our works and fruit. But that is a serious debate I am not sure can ever be won by flesh. The point is: forget me ... don't focus there. Focus on truth: Christ is sufficient and thereby....grace is sufficient. Period. When Jesus told Peter the Gates of hell would not prevail against the church. Jesus was revealing the words spoken by Peter were spirit and given by the Father in heaven and that is where Christ would build His church. Spirit. (yet another debate) Sin does not overcome the heart of Christ, nor does sin overcome the mind of Christ or nor does sin overcome the body of Christ.

    Numbers 16: 28 "And Moses said, Hereby ye shall know that the Lord hath sent me to do all these works; for I have not done them of mine own mind."
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017 at 8:04 AM
  9. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    Correction: Just spoke to my husband and he said the mind and the heart are the same thing in the OT. I am not sure but something to consider along with:

    Romans 12:2-3 KJV
    [2] And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. [3] For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

    Transformed
    Born again
    Translated...may be synonymous.

    Colossians 1:13 KJV
    [13] Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
     
  10. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    ya, NT too i think. It is kind of a hard concept to grasp, but we googled "mind and heart are the same thing" a couple weeks ago, it kind of clarifies in search i guess
     
  11. KBCid

    KBCid Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying that until the husbands correction you believed that the thing that beats in your chest is "deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?"

    I could be misunderstanding but that is how your post comes across to me. No disrespect intended.
     
  12. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    So then anyone who is still sinning at all is not yet born of God. They remain perhaps still in the womb or stuck in the birth canal until they can be brought out into the Light... or?

    This means that anyone who is drawn by the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh and the pride of life [I John 2:16] and yields to the drawing is sinning and is not born again no matter what they say or what experiences they have had.

    Galatians is also clear here on who shall not inherit the kingdom of God:

    "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
    Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
    Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." Gal. 5:19-21

    There are seemingly many who are Christian and saying that they are "born again" have missed the boat if they are still doing any of these things.
     
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  13. EndTimeWine

    EndTimeWine Member

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  14. EndTimeWine

    EndTimeWine Member

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    1John explains it best chp.3 if you do not want to read all of 1John. God bless!
     
  15. EndTimeWine

    EndTimeWine Member

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    I do not Lie about Christ, I never get mad at Christ . I never have a bad thought about Christ, I dislike peoples behavior, I hate sin. I pray for my enemies . I do not put off til tomorrow the things which one must do today. I celebrate my faith everyday. I always think of God in good and bad times. When I am tried there is no higher thought. I have my thoughts in check because when a bad thought knocks I know it is not me but satan who is a tempter , he flees at the power of Yeshua His name is POWER, I want for nothing for my heavenly Father has all I need in the palm of His hand. Have I sinned, absolutely. Am I a new creation, ABSOLUTELY. Do I believe 1John is just doing his best, no he is his best in Christ. And again you judge an apostle who has ran his race and won. There is no just- about it, it is so. Do not under estimate what John is saying. I know the goal for all in Christ, PERFECTION. Is it easy, ABSOLUTELY NOT, is it possible, absolutely or Christ would not have called us to it. The discussion isn't if anyone sins but if you can become perfect, you have a problem with this, I do not. I believe what Yeshua says and I will pursue it with all my heart. I never said I was perfect, you did. I said I believe we are to be perfect. Big difference. Read peoples words completely and not assume things about people.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017 at 6:57 AM
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  16. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the assist.
     
  17. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    No disrespect taken. Yes, I admit it; it is difficult to understand. Human emotion that is felt and almost tangible, thoughts that creep in out of no where...and Spirit. Heart and mind. The Unseen and the seen. (Especially when we are taught our entire life that we love with our heart and think with our mind.) ...

    His ways are higher.
     
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  18. Richard_oti

    Richard_oti Well-Known Member

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    By "Today" or "Tomorrow"? For "Because" "Naturally", "Who" or "What", "I don't know".

    Perhaps "I don't give a darn" <grin>
     
  19. KBCid

    KBCid Well-Known Member

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    I bow to the truth.
    I can but underscore the truth of God when it is stated.

    1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
    7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning.

    To practice righteousness is a free will action we take while existing in our fleshly body. We must have dominion over the desires of the flesh.
     
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  20. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    1 John 5:10-12 KJV
    [10] He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. [11] And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. [12] He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.


    There is only two ways: with the Son or without the Son.

    He that has the the Spirit has life.
    He that has not the Spirit...has not life.

    Hence the: I never knew you. Depart from Me...you workers of iniquity. There is no: 1 John 5:7-9 KJV
    [7] For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. [8] And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. [9] If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.


    God has given us eternal life.
    Do you believe eternal life and its fullness is in the Son, Jesus Christ? Or do you believe the witness of man who distorts the simplicity of:

    1 Corinthians 1:29-31 KJV
    [29] That no flesh should glory in his presence. [30] But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: [31] That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.


    Romans 5:17 KJV
    [17] For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)


    Righteousness shall reign by ONE.
    Not by many men made perfect through works accomplished in their flesh.


    Romans 3:26-28 KJV
    [26] To declare, I say , at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. [27] Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. [28] Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

    ...he that believeth not God hath made him a liar...
     
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