Christ only died for past sins...

[quietthinker]

If you claim there’s no free will to either choose to receive Jesus, and choose to repent, or instead reject Jesus and/or reject the need to repent, then you share the grievous error of reformed election dogma.

Either way, it’s a requirement of salvation to believe in Jesus and to repent of sins, no matter what your reasoning or proof texting claims.

Maranatha

I believe in free will....and so did Jesus.....to love to death.

 

[Curtis]

Great thread. I think there is confusion over 2 sets of ideals:

1. Salvation v Sanctification
2. Eternal v Temporal Consequences of Sin

Although I am saved, I still Sin. Today, learned a bill was not paid on time, leading to the temporal consequence of a late fee added to my bill.

After salvation, part of sanctification is to avoid sexual sins.

Sad to say,but Christians only read someone’s proof texts l instead of reading the whole New Testament multiple times and letting the HS illuminate scriptural truth over time, so most of them never ran into this text:

1Th 4:2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.

1Th 4:3 For this is the will of God, even YOUR SANCTIFICATION, that ye should abstain from fornication:

1Th 4:4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;

1Th 4:5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:

1Th 4:6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.

1Th 4:7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

1Th 4:8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.

SHALOM ALEICHEM

 

[quietthinker]

After salvation, part of sanctification is to avoid sexual sins.

Sad to say,but Christians only read someone’s proof texts l instead of reading the whole New Testament multiple times and letting the HS illuminate scriptural truth over time, so most of them never ran into this text:

1Th 4:2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.

1Th 4:3 For this is the will of God, even YOUR SANCTIFICATION, that ye should abstain from fornication:

1Th 4:4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;

1Th 4:5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:

1Th 4:6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.

1Th 4:7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

1Th 4:8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.

SHALOM ALEICHEM

The Gospel is not a formula!

 

[Curtis]

The Gospel is not a formula!

Oh, so you mean it’s not a formula, such as in Romans 10:8-13 which the Apostle Paul said IS THE WORD OF FAITH that they, the apostles TEACH, that IF you confess with your mouth, the faith in your heart, that Jesus is Lord and that God raised Him from the dead, YOU WILL BE SAVED, for with the HEART you BELIEVE unto RIGHTEOUSNESS, and with the MOUTH, CONFESSION is made UNTO SALVATION?

That formula?

The one that goes on to say in Romans 10:13 of that “formula”, FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD, SHALL BE SAVED?

That formula?

I think I’ll stick with what Paul and the apostles taught, over whatever alternative it is that you apparently tout, be it Calvinism or some other ism.

Maranatha

 

[quietthinker]

Oh, so you mean it’s not a formula, such as in Romans 10:8-13 which the Apostle Paul said IS THE WORD OF FAITH that they, the apostles TEACH, that IF you confess with your mouth, the faith in your heart, that Jesus is Lord and that God raised Him from the dead, YOU WILL BE SAVED, for with the HEART you BELIEVE unto RIGHTEOUSNESS, and with the MOUTH, CONFESSION is made UNTO SALVATION?

That formula?

The one that goes on to say in Romans 10:13 of that “formula”, FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD, SHALL BE SAVED?

That formula?

I think I’ll stick with what Paul and the apostles taught, over whatever alternative it is that you apparently tout, be it Calvinism or some other ism.

Maranatha

I didn't think you'd understand my question to you in post #59

 

[MatthewG]

The gospel message of Christ is universal. Not ever one has faith in Christ though. All peoples sin were atoned for; not everyone is saved to the kingdom of heaven due to lack of faith.

 

[Taken]

Christ only died for past sins...
OP ^

Sort of a "loaded" OP.

^ That on it's face, "Implies", "future sins" are not "included" in Forgiveness.

Fact IS;
Of course Christ only died for past sins...
"Because";
there are no Future Sins for Christ to forgive.

And ^ THAT leads to a bigger division of belief among people.

 

[QuickFilly]

No kidding, there are a people who as a group have reached a consensus that Jesus is the pilot of a UFO mothership that is cloaked in invisibility. And this mothership observes earth and guides those whom the Ashtar Command protect.

When people actually do live believing that, which must be a lot of fun at Helium parties, people thinking Jesus didn't accomplish what John 1 tells us isn't a stretch.

People that live thinking Jesus died only for past sins can live that.
What are we suppose to do? Work to change their mind? How is that accomplished when written scripture doesn't get through?

 

[Curtis]

You can take umbrage at people using the terms "hyper-grace" or "greasy grace", consider the use of such terms blasphemy, and quote Romanist ministers all you want, but the truth of God > Romanism:

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?" - Rom. 6:1-2

"What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? - Rom. 6:15-16

Interestingly enough, an eerily similar lie as the modern fable that Christ's sacrifice covered future sins had evidently been taught in the 1st century congregations:

"For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord."- Jude 1:4

When looking at their theology concerning grace and Christ's sacrifice, it becomes obvious that Romanists don't actually understand what grace is or even why Christ came to die as a human being. Like most Romanists, your tremendously flawed understanding of grace comes from not realizing Paul was mostly addressing the Pharisees' traditions in Galatians, not the Law:

As many as desire to make a good showing in the flesh, these would compel you to be circumcised, only that they may not suffer persecution for the cross of Christ. For not even those who are circumcised keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation." - Gal. 6:12-13, 15

The problem isn't that people believe Christ's sacrifice is ineffective at blotting out sins. The problem is that people like yourself reject what the Bible says about how Christ's sacrifice is actually applied because you hypocritically believe your understanding of scripture is above reproach or any need for correction. The argument that Christ's sacrifice is applied to sins that haven't been committed is equally as nonsensical as taking a car to a body shop for a malfunction that hasn't happened yet.

I absolutely agree. Well stated.

Maranatha

 

[Curtis]

Christ only died for past sins...
OP ^

Sort of a "loaded" OP.

^ That on it's face, "Implies", "future sins" are not "included" in Forgiveness.

Fact IS;
Of course Christ only died for past sins...
"Because";
there are no Future Sins for Christ to forgive.

And ^ THAT leads to a bigger division of belief among people.

That’s not what Paul says over and over again - but that’s what it says in the proof-texted version of grace that is out of context and ignores the dozens of scriptures warning believers not to go back to living in sin again.

Reminds me of how universalists proof text their way into all humanity being saved, and have to ignore the dozens of scriptures that refute them.

 

[Taken]

That’s not what Paul says over and over again - but that’s what it says in the proof-texted version of grace that is out of context and ignores the dozens of scriptures warning believers not to go back to living in sin again.

Reminds me of how universalists proof text their way into all humanity being saved, and have to ignore the dozens of scriptures that refute them.

No. I do not have to ignore Scripture. I simply have to put Scripture in Context of Applicability, and understand the Difference between Gods Spirit being With a man OR IN a man.

 

[Stumpmaster]

The gospel message of Christ is universal. Not ever one has faith in Christ though. All peoples sin were atoned for; not everyone is saved to the kingdom of heaven due to lack of faith.

Hi MatthewG,
Based on your post you are not an adherent of Universalism.

Universalism
(ˌjuːnɪˈvɜːsəˌlɪzəm)
n
(Theology) a system of religious beliefs maintaining that all men are predestined for salvation
ˌUniˈversalist n, adj
Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged, 12th Edition 2014 © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2014

Quote:
The Universalist Church of America (UCA) was a Christian Universalist religious denomination in the United States (plus affiliated churches in other parts of the world). Known from 1866 as the Universalist General Convention, the name was changed to the Universalist Church of America in 1942. In 1961, it consolidated with the American Unitarian Association to form the Unitarian Universalist Association.[1]

The defining theology of Universalism is universal salvation; Universalists believe that the God of love would not create a person knowing that that person would be destined for eternal damnation. They concluded that all people must be destined for salvation. Some early Universalists, known as Restorationists and led by Paul Dean, believed that after death there is a period of reprobation in Hell preceding salvation.[2][3] Other Universalists, notably Hosea Ballou, denied the existence of Hell entirely.[4] [ Universalist Church of America - Wikipedia ]

 

[FHII]

[

That’s not what Paul says over and over again - but that’s what it says in the proof-texted version of grace that is out of context and ignores the dozens of scriptures warning believers not to go back to living in sin again.

And once again I disagree with you. Don't worry, I am not going to ask you a bunch of questions again. You didn't answer them the last time so I won't ask more (you did answer one, but your answer wasn't really that good).

You may be able to come up with "dozens" of scriptures that warn believers not to go back to living in sin, but I seriously doubt any of them will truly in and context support your notion that grace only covers the same thing animal sacrifice did: past sins.

Folks like you who believe this usually point to a number of verses. The problem is that while most people say context is important (not all... I have actually heard some say it isn't important) the tend to ignore it. Lets look at some of them:


1 Corinthians 6:9-10 KJV
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, [10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Seems solid when you build a stone wall around these two verses to keep the rest of the chapter out, doesn't it? There is however, unfortunately more to this chapter.

First off, Paul is upset at the Corinthians, but the direct reason wasn't because they were dong these things. They were, and Paul didn't like it, but it wasn't the reason for the rebuke. If you read the two verses above it, the real reason was they were defrauding their brother and taking them to court before unbelievers. He wasn't even upset that they were suing one another, but that they weren't working out the problem internally.

Second, the next verse (verse 11) says that's what some of them were, but they have been washed, sanctified and justified. I suppose that doesn't mean that much to some, because some folks believe you can lose that status by sinning. Not true, but thats what they believe.

Next, they fail to notice verse 12, which comes 3 verses after 9 and 2 verses after verse 10. It says all things are lawful, but not expedient. I wasn't trying to be funny by saying verse 12 is so close to verse 9 and 10... I was making a point: Paul was confirming that these things are indeed covered by grace! Of course he was saying they are not a good idea and in context, they shouldn't be done against fellow believers.

Now, you can read the chapters before and and you will see the Corinthians were doing some pretty sick things, and Paul didn't like it, and neither do I. But to take that list and claim doing those things aren't covered by grace and somehow trying to use them to show God ony forgives past sins is not truthful. They are terrible an no, you shouldn't do them!

Now, lets look at the next verse that people use...

No, rest easy... This post is already too long. But there are verses in Galatians 5 and 2 Peter 2 as well as single shot verses like Hebrews 10:26 where context is ignored or perverted. Even the book of James. Many more also! I could analyze them all, but its going to be the same thing. Its always going to come down to the fact that you do wrong by either slighting God or your brethren and NOT the actual sin of the flesh you used to do it with.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

[

And once again I disagree with you. Don't worry, I am not going to ask you a bunch of questions again. You didn't answer them the last time so I won't ask more (you did answer one, but your answer wasn't really that good).

You may be able to come up with "dozens" of scriptures that warn believers not to go back to living in sin, but I seriously doubt any of them will truly in and context support your notion that grace only covers the same thing animal sacrifice did: past sins.

Folks like you who believe this usually point to a number of verses. The problem is that while most people say context is important (not all... I have actually heard some say it isn't important) the tend to ignore it. Lets look at some of them:


1 Corinthians 6:9-10 KJV
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, [10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Seems solid when you build a stone wall around these two verses to keep the rest of the chapter out, doesn't it? There is however, unfortunately more to this chapter.

First off, Paul is upset at the Corinthians, but the direct reason wasn't because they were dong these things. They were, and Paul didn't like it, but it wasn't the reason for the rebuke. If you read the two verses above it, the real reason was they were defrauding their brother and taking them to court before unbelievers. He wasn't even upset that they were suing one another, but that they weren't working out the problem internally.

Second, the next verse (verse 11) says that's what some of them were, but they have been washed, sanctified and justified. I suppose that doesn't mean that much to some, because some folks believe you can lose that status by sinning. Not true, but thats what they believe.

Next, they fail to notice verse 12, which comes 3 verses after 9 and 2 verses after verse 10. It says all things are lawful, but not expedient. I wasn't trying to be funny by saying verse 12 is so close to verse 9 and 10... I was making a point: Paul was confirming that these things are indeed covered by grace! Of course he was saying they are not a good idea and in context, they shouldn't be done against fellow believers.

Now, you can read the chapters before and and you will see the Corinthians were doing some pretty sick things, and Paul didn't like it, and neither do I. But to take that list and claim doing those things aren't covered by grace and somehow trying to use them to show God ony forgives past sins is not truthful. They are terrible an no, you shouldn't do them!

Now, lets look at the next verse that people use...

No, rest easy... This post is already too long. But there are verses in Galatians 5 and 2 Peter 2 as well as single shot verses like Hebrews 10:26 where context is ignored or perverted. Even the book of James. Many more also! I could analyze them all, but its going to be the same thing. Its always going to come down to the fact that you do wrong by either slighting God or your brethren and NOT the actual sin of the flesh you used to do it with.

Most people don’t care , but nevertheless, “ Text without Context is Error””

Without exception, any verse in the Bible that appears to go against Eternal Security is a verse NOT being addressed to Believers or it is a Verse taken out of context....no exceptions.

 

[Webers_Home]

.
Let's say, hypothetically, that Jesus' crucifixion only covers people's sins up
to the point where they come to faith in Christ.

It wouldn't matter because at that point their lives on earth terminated.

• Col 3:3 . . For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. (cf.
Rom 6:3-7)

FAQ: The Bible says that a Christian's life on earth terminated the day they
came to faith in Christ; and from that day on, God stopped keeping a record
of their sins. (Rom 6:3-7, Col 3:3, and 2Cor 5:19). What about the afterlife?
What's to be done about the sins Christians commit there?

A: When Christians undergo the supernatural birth about which Christ spoke
at John 3:3-8, they are imperceptibly regenerated with a nature that not
only doesn't sin, but can't sin.

• 1John 3:7-9 . .The one who practices sin is of the Devil; for the Devil has
sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, that
he might destroy the works of the Devil. No one who is born of God practices
sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born
of God.

Two fathers are on view in that passage.

The first is the Devil; identified in the third chapter of the book of Genesis as
the Serpent (Rev 12:9). Human nature as we know it among ourselves, was
fathered by the Devil; which explains why humans are natural-born sinners.

The second father is God, identified in the first chapter of Genesis as the
supreme being responsible for creating the cosmos-- all its forms of life,
matter, and energy. Divine nature, as we know it in the person of God's son,
is fathered by the creator; which explains why Christ is a natural-born
sinless man instead of a natural-born sinful man.

The human nature and the divine nature are not joined at the hip as an
amalgam of good and evil. God separates the two natures by means of a
rather unusual form of circumcision (Col 2:11) making it possible for
Christians to enter the afterlife as 100% righteous people.
_

 

[ChristisGod]

@friend of

When we accept Jesus as our Savior, God forgives all our sins: past, present, and future. This statement is biblical, but we must be careful about what exactly it mean.

The statement “my future sins are forgiven” is absolutely true in this sense: Jesus died for all our sins (1 Corinthians 15:3; Hebrews 10:10; 1 John 2:2). It is biblical to say that our salvation is secure in Christ (Ephesians 1:13) and that those who are justified will also be glorified (Romans 8:30). However, we should not use the idea that “my future sins are forgiven” to imply that, once we have received Christ as Savior, we have no more need to ask for forgiveness. In other words, we must distinguish between forgiveness regarding our eternal salvation and forgiveness regarding our day-to-day fellowship with God.

Consider these passages, which point out our need for forgiveness, even after we are saved:

“If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us” (1 John 1:8–10).

“My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous” (1 John 2:1).

In both these passages, the apostle John teaches that Christians still sin and that, when we do, God stands ready to forgive when we confess the sin to the Lord. The forgiveness is contingent upon the confession. Sin does not have to continue to separate us from fellowship with our Father. Jesus has paid for that sin, but, until it is confessed, it remains a wedge between us.

Unconfessed sin in a believer’s life is a serious matter. It affects our relationship to God (1 Peter 3:7), our relationships to others (Galatians 5:15), and at times even our physical health (1 Corinthians 11:29–30; James 5:16). We should not ignore the sins we continue to commit. We should not shrug them off by saying, “Jesus already forgave my future sins.” We must deal with them, and the Bible tells us how.

We are saved by grace through faith, and the moment we trust in Christ, we are made right with God. Our sins were forgiven (Colossians 2:13), and we start our relationship with a clean slate (Psalm 103:12; 2 Corinthians 5:21). The power of sin is broken, and we are crucified with Christ (Romans 6:1–6; Galatians 2:20). Yet, because we are still flawed humans living in a fallen world, we still give in to temptation and damage the relationship we enjoyed with God. Confession of our sin to the Lord cleans the slate once more and restores us to God.

When we are “in Christ,” our position as God’s children never changes, but our ability to enjoy a clean conscience, a pure heart, and the pleasure of our Father is hindered. Consider it this way: you are sitting by a south window on a bright sunny day. It is freezing outside, but the sun through the window is deliciously warm. Then you reach up and pull down a black shade. Instantly, the warmth ceases, and all is dark. You didn’t change position, but something has come between you and your delightful experience. Sin is like that shade. It separates us from God, and it is up to us whether we remain in that darkened condition. Confession of sin lifts the shade. God has not moved. His warmth has not cooled, but our sin blocked our ability to enjoy it.

Forgiveness from God is a priceless gift, but it came at great cost to our Lord Jesus. God does not take lightly the sins of His children and will bring discipline in order to restore our relationship with Him (Hebrews 12:4–11).

The woman caught in adultery was brought to Jesus in John 8. Rather than condemn her, Jesus offered her forgiveness: “Neither do I condemn you,” He said (John 8:11). Then He set her free, not with carte blanche to continue to sin, but with a command to cease from sinning: “Go now and leave your life of sin.” In other words, her future sins had not been automatically forgiven.got?

hope this helps!!!

 

[Brakelite]

If Christ has already died for our future sins, how is the following possible?
KJV Hebrews 6:6
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

And then there this...

KJV Romans 3:25
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

 

[friend of]

The woman caught in adultery was brought to Jesus in John 8. Rather than condemn her, Jesus offered her forgiveness: “Neither do I condemn you,” He said (John 8:11). Then He set her free, not with carte blanche to continue to sin, but with a command to cease from sinning: “Go now and leave your life of sin.” In other words, her future sins had not been automatically forgiven.got

Disagree. Jesus never said "if you sin again your sins wont be forgiven"
Thanks for your post

 

[friend of]

If Christ has already died for our future sins, how is the following possible?
KJV Hebrews 6:6
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame

This is speaking about an utter rejection of Christ after having been enlightened by the Holy Spirit. It's not talking about generalized sinfulness.

 

[Iconoclast]

Men in Christ are forgiven their sin Against God.
Once Forgiven and Converted they no longer, by the Power of the Holy Spirit IN THEM, are Able to Sin Against God, ever again.

Jews, Catholics, and any other groups who continues to Sin, and repeatedly ask God for Forgiveness....according to Scripture, are not "born again".

1 John 3:
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

You sin everyday, in thought word and deed.rom7.14-25