Christadelphians, the Devil and Satan

[Hiddenthings]

YEP

@Truly

What is the context of 2 Peter 2?

@David in NJ, take a look, you might notice that the word angel is used in Scripture to refer not only to divine beings, but also to human messengers.

If you cannot critically think and ask the right questions of the Word, then it will not provide you with the right answers.

 

[Hiddenthings]

imho, demons are the disembodied spirits of the nephilim

Fallen angels are also spirits but remain as angels, however they are now locked into Judgment with satan.

I’m glad this is just your opinion, because scholars have found no evidence anywhere in the Word of God of a disembodied spirit leaving a person at death. It’s yet another misconception that needs to be dealt with.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Thanks Trevor. It’s always a pleasure speaking with you.

Let’s look at James 2:19 again.

”You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe and shudder!”

You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the _______ believe and shudder!

Who or what are the “demons”? How would you fill in the blank?

For others reading this post of Matthias' you will see how misquoting and then forcing unbiblical notions on the Word is extremely dangerous.

The true context of James 2:14–18 reveals a strong concern for the connection between faith and works. Even individuals described as demon-possessed, such as the Gadarene demoniacs, had enough awareness to acknowledge Jesus as the Son of God and to tremble, yet their belief was not accompanied by any acceptable action. Matthew 8:28 describes them as “exceedingly fierce, so that no one could pass that way.” In the same way, James warns that if believers fail to express their faith through meaningful works, their profession of faith is ultimately no more effective than that of a demoniac, recognizing truth, but lacking obedience and transformation.

Now I understand that Matthias is unable to offer this kind of spiritual insight into James 2:19, because he refuses to make the connections that James himself clearly draws in the passage.

This reflects the skill of reading the Word carefully and recognizing the depth of understanding James draws on as he guides those who need their faith to be shown through works.

This section is not given to allow the imaginations of men to run wild as Matthias is demonstrating.

 

[David in NJ]

@Truly

What is the context of 2 Peter 2?

@David in NJ, take a look, you might notice that the word angel is used in Scripture to refer not only to divine beings, but also to human messengers.

If you cannot critically think and ask the right questions of the Word, then it will not provide you with the right answers.

Well the, we have two types of "messengers":
a.) Angels
b.) humans

 

[David in NJ]

I’m glad this is just your opinion, because scholars have found no evidence anywhere in the Word of God of a disembodied spirit leaving a person at death. It’s yet another misconception that needs to be dealt with.

scholars???

lol x100

 

[Hiddenthings]

Well the, we have two types of "messengers":
a.) Angels
b.) humans

Correct.

Context demands interpretation

 

[Hiddenthings]

scholars???

lol x100

A good starting point is the NET Bible's translation notes, which are incredibly honest about the lack of evidence for the idea of fallen angels or ethereal evil spirits.

As this thread continues to show, the evidence for such claims is nonexistent.

 

[dak]

…which is why evidence is essential, Dak. I’ve shown you what is true, what you choose to do with it is up to you. Whether you accept it, reject it, or preach it, the issue remains: your position is flawed. No matter how hard you try, you have no origin story for this being, no clear definition, and certainly no teaching from the Lord Jesus Christ instructing us to 'follow a command' regarding it. All the warnings you can muster will not overcome this reality.

I do not recall you ever asking me about an "origin story for this being", so I am not actually sure what you mean by "this being", however, if you mean the one who is charged with the whole crime, you might want to study Leviticus 16 and Sefer Henok since the Master quotes from that very same passage in Henok.

 

[Brakelite]

I think some time spent ministering in India or Africa will soon bring to light the warfare that is escalating between spiritual powers of light and darkness, and the reality of demons and/or evil angels working in our midst. In the western world our sense of logic and reasoning blinds us to spiritual realities. We all need to ask the Lord to open our eyes and allow us to see who the enemy really is, and where he's working, and for the power and faith to deal effectively with these issues, freeing people from bondage and sin.
I have been confronted by such. They are real, and more powerful than us. But not more powerful than Jesus. We have authority over them, through the power of our Lord and Saviour.

 

[Brakelite]

“17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. 18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. ”
Luke 10:17-18 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

 

[David in NJ]

Correct.

Context demands interpretation

context = Bible

 

[David in NJ]

A good starting point is the NET Bible's translation notes, which are incredibly honest about the lack of evidence for the idea of fallen angels or ethereal evil spirits.

God's Word = Evidence

human intellect = lack of evidence

 

[Hiddenthings]

I do not recall you ever asking me about an "origin story for this being", so I am not actually sure what you mean by "this being", however, if you mean the one who is charged with the whole crime, you might want to study Leviticus 16 and Sefer Henok since the Master quotes from that very same passage in Henok.

No one has been able to show a Biblical origin because the Bible only holds truth.

 

[Hiddenthings]

“17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. 18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. ”
Luke 10:17-18 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

You quoted a simile - do you know what a simile is Brakelight?

Interesting how people quote this verse and ignore it's obvious context.

Did you know Luke like using simile's? And you know how he uses them?

What is the adversary in Luke 10 which "fell, like lightning?"

 

[dak]

No one has been able to show a Biblical origin because the Bible only holds truth.

Your Bible canon appears to be missing some critically important books.

PS: clue number one:

Matthew 22:13 ASV
13 Then the king said to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and cast him out into the outer darkness; there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth.

That's a verbatim word-for-word quote in the highlighted text. The only thing missing is a certain name, which may be found in Leviticus 16, and in the source text from where the quote is derived, and outer is added to darkness because of one of the two meanings of Dudael.

 

[Brakelite]

You quoted a simile - do you know what a simile is Brakelight?

Interesting how people quote this verse and ignore it's obvious context.

Did you know Luke like using simile's? And you know how he uses them?

What is the adversary in Luke 10 which "fell, like lightning?"

You are doing precisely what people do who deny the plain reading of scripture. You really on your carnal reasoning and logic. I suggest you read again what I wrote a little above in post 229.

 

[Lambano]

Blaming the devil shifts responsibility, owning your actions shows accountability...

This isn't what we're talking about:

 

[Hiddenthings]

You are doing precisely what people do who deny the plain reading of scripture. You really on your carnal reasoning and logic. I suggest you read again what I wrote a little above in post 229.

So, you don't understand what a simile is? If you don't how can you quote Luke 10 and assume you know what it's teaching if you cannot interpret the simile? You're doing precisely what all participants in this thread do by inferring you know the adversary without dealing with the context.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Here’s a question for the group:

Why is it that in every single prophetic passage where Jesus speaks about AD 70 or the end times, he never once mentions this supposed evil supernatural being?

Take the Olivet Prophecy, for example.

What does the Lord actually say?

“Take heed that no man deceive you; for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ (Matt., Mark, Luke), and the time draweth near (Luke), and shall deceive many (Matt., Mark). Go not after them” (Luke).

This would have been the ideal moment for Jesus to introduce such a being, yet he doesn’t - not once!. Instead, he attributes the deception to people.

Why is it that all the persecution he speaks of refers to people, brother against brother, or authorities laying hands on believers etc, BUT never once is this so-called evil creature mentioned?

Isn’t that telling?

Is this an issue?

If there truly were a central, supernatural evil being, such as a fallen angel, directly orchestrating deception and persecution, then Jesus' silence on this figure in key prophetic teachings (like the Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21) raises serious questions.

Instead of warning against a devilish power behind the scenes, Jesus consistently points to human deception, false teachers, and political and religious turmoil as the sources of danger and misguidance.

Have you misinterpreted the meaning of these words and failed to consider the true context in which they are used?

 

[Hiddenthings]

Nowhere does Jesus give a clear doctrinal teaching or definition of “Satan” as a fallen angel or supernatural rebel.