Christian Identity movement.

[Stranger]

So your saying God uses the word in scripture (Israel) to denote a landmass also? Israel was not concieved by the jew until 1948? Certainly not led there by the Good Shepherd either or do you disagree?

The inhabitants of Israel currently call themselves jews (but they are not are they!)
The Pharisees religion called Judaism uses the Talmud as its major authority (not the Torah) which is why they call themselves jews.
So..is a "jew"

a Judahite (from the tribe of Judah), a Judean (someone from the land of Judea), a Israelite (pure blood descendant of Isaac), a modern jew (adherant of Judaism)...?

I must remind you that a true Israelite is born in Jesus and from Adam! (not an Edomitic mixture of all races because God tells us no mamzer will make it into the congregation).

Israel speaks to a nation of people. Their land, is the land God promised them, which we know as Palestine, which we call Israel.

The Israelite's have become known as Jews. It is an accepted term.

No, a true Israelite is one who is of Jacobs 12 sons and who is a believer in Jesus Christ.

Stranger

 

[Danube]

Israel speaks to a nation of people. Their land, is the land God promised them, which we know as Palestine, which we call Israel.

The Israelite's have become known as Jews. It is an accepted term.

No, a true Israelite is one who is of Jacobs 12 sons and who is a believer in Jesus Christ.

Stranger

So why do you have to use the name Palestine to mean Israel, and not even a people but simply a geographical identity (?)
Take a look at the marks God has put on ISRAEL previously in this thread...do you honestly attach them to jews who you already assert are actually "Palastinians"(?)
You also change "born" to mean "believe" which is the only way a wolf can jump over the gate. satan (our accuser) believes there is a God too!
James did not include Jesus' relations to include Adam because of "belief"...nay!
They are relations by BLOOD.

 

[Stranger]

So why do you have to change Palestine to mean Israel (?)
You also change "born" to mean "believe" which is the only way a wolf can jump over the gate.
James did not include Jesus' relations to include Adam because of "belief"...nay!
They are relations by BLOOD.

I didn't. God changed Jacob's name to Israel. The land promised to him is that land of Palestine that is known as Israel. You can call it Palestine, the promised land, Israel, whatever you like. It still pertains to a geographical area.

I didn't change 'born' to mean 'believe'. One must be born of the physical descendants of Jacob and also believe to be a true Israelite. The blood is still there.

Stranger

 

[Danube]

God changed his name so those in the endtimes could see who these are "who call themselves jews, but are not and do lie"

So are you now going to tell me the nation of Israel (...or Palestine) in present times is a fullfilment of biblical prophecy? If not then they can only be imposters.
Do you agree or disagree that modern jewry contains edom?

 

[Stranger]

God changed his name so those in the endtimes could see who these are "who call themselves jews, but are not and do lie"

So are you now going to tell me the nation of Israel (...or Palestine) in present times is a fullfilment of biblical prophecy? If not then they can only be imposters.
Do you agree or disagree that modern jewry contains edom?

No He didn't. Great assumption on your part.

The nation of Israel today, in the land of Palestine, is necessary for the fulfillment of prophecy. Even though God has not removed their blindness to Jesus Christ, it is important that they be in the land. They are not imposters. They just are not believers....yet.

Are some descendants of Esau part of Israel today? Probably. Just as their are descendants of Moab there also. And others. Was Ruth an imposter? David? Jesus Christ?

Stranger

 

[Danube]

No you said.

You might be able to shed some light on this....Ruth the Moabite, it has been asked before to me .... by blood or was she an Israelite living in Moab?

i.e.
Anyone can claim they are part of a nation because they were born there, just like an African or Chinese can have children in England and become "British" ...but does it make them racially European? No.
Only Ruth already knew all the ordinances (in this case the method of transfering property from one person to another) of the Israelites and the festivals which suggests she was simply an Israelite living in Moab associated by her nation sake. Moses knew the LAW so it would be harder to suggest he wouldn't choose a woman from his own race like he was commanded. So NO ... or am I mistaken?
I think you already know Davids counternance was the same as that as Jesus so an imposter? Not sure where your going with asking that.
You obviously have some understanding on race so maybe you can enlighten me on Moabites by race and nation? But make no mistake God hates Edom.

 

[mjrhealth]

I have Jesus, and everyone thinks I am incomplete for not having Paul...hahahaha
So...
Christian Identity...
What is it's major error in scripture

Never said you where, but if reject teh truth you reject Christ because Christ is teh truth, it is so easy to do. I still dont understand why you hate Paul so much...

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

When one is a race and you mix a race what do you get ? like one's mum is x and dad y fact is you are nether but only half one and half the other.
Now there were some stupid Jews who claimed that they were this superior race nonsense, but the fact is the Tribe of Israel was never about a race, but a spiritual community under God.
So if you do not have a Spiritual foundations you are nothing to do with Israel.
It was an Angel that called Jacob Israel !

 

[Enoch111]

When one is a race and you mix a race what do you get ? like one's mum is x and dad y fact is you are nether but only half one and half the other.

As far as God is concerned there is only ONE RACE -- the human race. Since all mankind has descended from Adam, ethnicity means nothing. Therefore we have these words of Scripture:

ACTS 17
24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

What does this tell you? If you were in a hospital and needed a blood transfusion, it would not matter whether the donor was Caucasian, Black, Chinese, Japanese, Indian, or Mongolian. Only the blood type would be significant, and all *races* have all the blood types.

That is because after the flood, all *races* and nations came from the three sons of Noah -- Ham (Hamitic or African), Shem (Semitic or Middle Eastern), and Japheth (Japhetic or Indo-Aryan). But Noah's ancestry went all the way back to Adam, and therefore all are sinners, all die, and all need to be saved by grace.

 

[Stranger]

No you said.

You might be able to shed some light on this....Ruth the Moabite, it has been asked before to me .... by blood or was she an Israelite living in Moab?

i.e.
Anyone can claim they are part of a nation because they were born there, just like an African or Chinese can have children in England and become "British" ...but does it make them racially European? No.
Only Ruth already knew all the ordinances (in this case the method of transfering property from one person to another) of the Israelites and the festivals which suggests she was simply an Israelite living in Moab associated by her nation sake. Moses knew the LAW so it would be harder to suggest he wouldn't choose a woman from his own race like he was commanded. So NO ... or am I mistaken?
I think you already know Davids counternance was the same as that as Jesus so an imposter? Not sure where your going with asking that.
You obviously have some understanding on race so maybe you can enlighten me on Moabites by race and nation? But make no mistake God hates Edom.

Who is this post addressed to?

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

As far as God is concerned there is only ONE RACE -- the human race. Since all mankind has descended from Adam, ethnicity means nothing. Therefore we have these words of Scripture:

ACTS 17
24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

What does this tell you? If you were in a hospital and needed a blood transfusion, it would not matter whether the donor was Caucasian, Black, Chinese, Japanese, Indian, or Mongolian. Only the blood type would be significant, and all *races* have all the blood types.

That is because after the flood, all *races* and nations came from the three sons of Noah -- Ham (Hamitic or African), Shem (Semitic or Middle Eastern), and Japheth (Japhetic or Indo-Aryan). But Noah's ancestry went all the way back to Adam, and therefore all are sinners, all die, and all need to be saved by grace.

That is not true. God made the races of men. God makes distinction between Jew and Gentile. Yet you want to say He sees no difference. God makes distinction between those born of Shem, Ham, and Japheth. Yet you say He sees no difference. The only reason there is a difference is because God has made the difference.

It doesn't matter that all are of the human race. They are different races in their character and in God's dealings with them.

That all are of Adam doesn't meant they are not different races.

Stranger

 

[Enoch111]

That is not true. God made the races of men...

Now you have decided to DISBELIEVE God. He said *nations* through Paul, but you want to contradict Him and call them *races*. *ONE BLOOD* means ONE RACE -- the human race, divided into many nations.

And that is why Scripture does not distinguish the various ethnicities by the term *race*. Please note how they are described in Scripture:
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all [UNSAVED] kindreds* of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.(Rev 1:7)

After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all [SAVED] nations, and kindreds*, and people, and tongues, [LANGUAGES] stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; (Rev 7:9)

*Kindred* primarily means clan, or tribe, and can also mean a race or nation of people. However, it does not have the same meaning as racists would like, since it simply means a lineage from a common ancestor. Since all human beings -- according to Scripture -- have descended from Adam, they are all essentially within the human race.

Therefore Scripture divides all human beings at present into THREE GROUPS: (1) The Jews, (2) the Gentiles, and (3) the Church of God. All those descended from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are the Jews. All others are the Gentiles. And all the redeemed from either group are the Church of God (and that is the only group that matters in the end). Within the Church, there are no racial distinctions, and no ethnic distinctions. All are one family of God whether White, Black, Brown, Yellow, or Red. And Jesus Himself was a Hebrew of the Hebrews, as were all the apostles.

 

[Danube]

When one is a race and you mix a race what do you get ? like one's mum is x and dad y fact is you are nether but only half one and half the other.
Now there were some stupid Jews who claimed that they were this superior race nonsense, but the fact is the Tribe of Israel was never about a race, but a spiritual community under God.
So if you do not have a Spiritual foundations you are nothing to do with Israel.
It was an Angel that called Jacob Israel !

So how do you interpret this verse to mean?
Deuteronomy 23:2

 

[Stranger]

Now you have decided to DISBELIEVE God. He said *nations* through Paul, but you want to contradict Him and call them *races*. *ONE BLOOD* means ONE RACE -- the human race, divided into many nations.

And that is why Scripture does not distinguish the various ethnicities by the term *race*. Please note how they are described in Scripture:
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all [UNSAVED] kindreds* of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.(Rev 1:7)

After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all [SAVED] nations, and kindreds*, and people, and tongues, [LANGUAGES] stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; (Rev 7:9)

*Kindred* primarily means clan, or tribe, and can also mean a race or nation of people. However, it does not have the same meaning as racists would like, since it simply means a lineage from a common ancestor. Since all human beings -- according to Scripture -- have descended from Adam, they are all essentially within the human race.

Therefore Scripture divides all human beings at present into THREE GROUPS: (1) The Jews, (2) the Gentiles, and (3) the Church of God. All those descended from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are the Jews. All others are the Gentiles. And all the redeemed from either group are the Church of God (and that is the only group that matters in the end). Within the Church, there are no racial distinctions, and no ethnic distinctions. All are one family of God whether White, Black, Brown, Yellow, or Red. And Jesus Himself was a Hebrew of the Hebrews, as were all the apostles.

So, you believe God did not make the races of men?

You say 'kindred' can mean race, but doesn't have the same meaning racists would like. Just what do you believe a racist would like it to mean and how do you determine that?

All you are saying is that one who recognizes that God made the races of men, is a racist.

Yes, you have Jew, Gentile, and the Church. So? You still have in the world different races of people.

Stranger

 

[brakelite]

Because I am studying it.

I have gained alot of insight that my worldy church failed to provide so where I come by facts about race is proving to hold a lot of truth. I do not know enough yet so I may carry on a while longer....is that ok with you?
Jesus is my Lord and saviour.
I believe there is more to "racial" discussions than we are being allowed to know (or more importantly discuss and diseminate).
If it conradicts what the bible says on the subject of racial purity then I can and will throw it out! Hows that for you! Simple.
That is why Pauls Roman governments are all about "race" law and race- discussion censorship with a fetish for promotion of race-mixing. Which is being pushed like mad!!! But NEVER allowed to be discussed at length....wow! I do not fear satan. Do you? I have the armour of God & his truth to be abel to walk where ever his Holy Spirit leads me!

You can call me a racist if you want...if you cannot debate the subject material I guess you are left to ad-hominem the thread starter...isn't that how censorship works?

I was just wondering if race is just a social construct then why was White Europe the centre of Jesus' message and GOOD NEWS!
Have you not read the migration of the Tender twig in Jeremiah?

I am of European descent. Mostly French, with a little bit of Scot, Irish, and Welsh for good measure. If I went back far enough, one would likely find Germanic roots in all of that. My wife is Maori. We have 6 children. One married to a Samoan, the other to a Cook Islander. My grandchildren, 13 of them altogether, are an amazing mix of several different ethnic and cultural background. And God loves them, and sent his only Jewish Son to die for them every bit as much as he did for you or anyone else on this planet.
I belong to a church where there are Africans, Asians, Australians, Pacific islanders, all happily mixing together and serving the same God. My Samoan son in law is the principal of a local college where the two campuses have the same racial mix, is a church school, but where less than 1/4 are Christians.
You are barking up the wrong tree. And you have no idea of the richness and wealth that your narrow mindedness is depriving you of.

 

[Danube]

I am of European descent. Mostly French, with a little bit of Scot, Irish, and Welsh for good measure. If I went back far enough, one would likely find Germanic roots in all of that. My wife is Maori. We have 6 children. One married to a Samoan, the other to a Cook Islander. My grandchildren, 13 of them altogether, are an amazing mix of several different ethnic and cultural background. And God loves them, and sent his only Jewish Son to die for them every bit as much as he did for you or anyone else on this planet.
I belong to a church where there are Africans, Asians, Australians, Pacific islanders, all happily mixing together and serving the same God. My Samoan son in law is the principal of a local college where the two campuses have the same racial mix, is a church school, but where less than 1/4 are Christians.
You are barking up the wrong tree. And you have no idea of the richness and wealth that your narrow mindedness is depriving you of.

The path to richness & wealth or do I take the narrow path...(?)
Ah I see where you are coming from now!
I have mixed heritage (all european) and I love my elders to much to forsake the narrow straight path they took to get me here, with the kingdom at hand. Someone said to me once "Only the white race can maintain what they have created" is that a fact, false, racist or can a white man or woman appreciate their family heritage without offending someone? I always took that to mean he meant the infastructure and institutions of fair government but he could also of meant our future progeny, or having a land where they can continue to prosper unhindered by interference, or be plundered of their wealth. I guess every house needs maintaining. I guess you like the London look? Now that place has the "richness" you speak of.

Jesus a jew? Are you sure?
Aren't jews adherants to the religion of the Pharisees and Saducees?
Or did you mean Jesus is a Judean (from Judea) or from the tribe of Judah? Or an Israelite?
Obviously he was not a Talmudist (they call themselves jews too!) because their interpretation is our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ is boiling in hot excrement (which I find highly offensive, HIGHLY offensive!)...do you think if I asked the government now to stop this offensive viewpoint they would remove it for me?

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

So how do you interpret this verse to mean?
Deuteronomy 23:2

As a fact ! such a one can not enter. because they have no right ! it has nothing to do with race.

If there was a Godly race we would see the fruits of such stand out in fact, but they don't, as history proves such to be a fact. all are corrupted as to Sin, due to Adam and Eve.

 

[Danube]

As a fact ! such a one can not enter. because they have no right ! it has nothing to do with race.

If there was a Godly race we would see the fruits of such stand out in fact, but they don't, as history proves such to be a fact. all are corrupted as to Sin, due to Adam and Eve.

Big difference between a sin (which be repented of) and the Holy Spirit!
See how you confuse the two AND deny the marks God gave to his Children ISRAEL!

(I have included these marks in this very thread for you and anyone else to look at and leave it YOU to see who or which "race" they apply too!)

 

[Stranger]

No you said.

You might be able to shed some light on this....Ruth the Moabite, it has been asked before to me .... by blood or was she an Israelite living in Moab?

i.e.
Anyone can claim they are part of a nation because they were born there, just like an African or Chinese can have children in England and become "British" ...but does it make them racially European? No.
Only Ruth already knew all the ordinances (in this case the method of transfering property from one person to another) of the Israelites and the festivals which suggests she was simply an Israelite living in Moab associated by her nation sake. Moses knew the LAW so it would be harder to suggest he wouldn't choose a woman from his own race like he was commanded. So NO ... or am I mistaken?
I think you already know Davids counternance was the same as that as Jesus so an imposter? Not sure where your going with asking that.
You obviously have some understanding on race so maybe you can enlighten me on Moabites by race and nation? But make no mistake God hates Edom.

(Ruth 1:4) "And they took them wives of the women of Moab;...." (Ruth 1:22) "So Naomi returned, and Ruth the Moabitess, her daughter in law...." Etc. etc. etc.

You don't know where I am going with this? I think you do. (Matt. 1:1) "The book of the geneation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham." (Matt. 1:5-6) "And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse; And Jesse begat David the king;...."

Scripture is clear that Ruth was a Moabites and was in the lineage of David, thus in the lineage of Jesus Christ.

So, you are mistaken.

Stranger

 

[Danube]

(Ruth 1:4) "And they took them wives of the women of Moab;...." (Ruth 1:22) "So Naomi returned, and Ruth the Moabitess, her daughter in law...." Etc. etc. etc.

You don't know where I am going with this? I think you do. (Matt. 1:1) "The book of the geneation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham." (Matt. 1:5-6) "And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse; And Jesse begat David the king;...."

Scripture is clear that Ruth was a Moabites and was in the lineage of David, thus in the lineage of Jesus Christ.

So, you are mistaken.

Stranger

Nope.
Ruth was called a Moabite by nation yes. She was also an Israelite (so to speak) by blood because she knew the ordinances that belong to: ISRAELITES (so to speak). This identifying detail you seem to casually brush over.

I have already explained to you that nations are not regarded as racial pedigree or reasons for taking a wife as already stated.
I cannot be any clearer on this specific point.

To repeat..

There were, until recent times very few Africans (by racial identification as black skinned humans) in Ireland until the invention of air travel or a little earlier by sea, the point being the bible uses national boundaries same as we do today and shows migration through nations. To say an African by racial pedigree is Irish is on account of him either living there, being born there OR has a STATE passport to SAY he is Irish.
He will still have the identifying markers of being African but be known as Irish. If some woman takes a husband from Ireland would you take that to mean a black skinned human? If not why not?
You can either acknowledge this point or either push on with the Moabitess (racial pedigree) claim regardless.