Christian Identity movement.

[Danube]

Hello everyone.
Can I please ask what other peoples opinions are of this labeled offshoot of scripture and study? It seems to have become a bane to many who are offended by its very politically incorrect observance of racial segregation (not racism as a form of malice) and it seems to be filed as a hate group.
Can I ask if anyone here knows of it and has perhaps read some of their material?
My dearest and closest are CofE and I am not really able to approach them on this subject. I am not looking for an argument nor do I follow this teaching, however I am very curious to seek others opinions on this very mysterious and yet facinating new branch of Christianity.
Does anyone agree with their reasoning on the "unpardonable sin" being linked to racial segragation? (please bare in mind I am only asking for opinions so not out to offend anyone who finds this offensive)
Thank you

 

[CoreIssue]

What is the Christian Identity Movement?

Cult and utterly disgusting.

 

[Danube]

Just read your link. Thanks.
Have the CI got it wrong (error of scripture) or is because of the violence side of it?
I have to admit here that I actually agree with some of its teachings but not others. Does it unwittingly try to make you transgress any commandments in your opinion ?
How did it come into being?
Thanks

 

[ScottA]

Hello everyone.
Can I please ask what other peoples opinions are of this labeled offshoot of scripture and study? It seems to have become a bane to many who are offended by its very politically incorrect observance of racial segregation (not racism as a form of malice) and it seems to be filed as a hate group.
Can I ask if anyone here knows of it and has perhaps read some of their material?
My dearest and closest are CofE and I am not really able to approach them on this subject. I am not looking for an argument nor do I follow this teaching, however I am very curious to seek others opinions on this very mysterious and yet facinating new branch of Christianity.
Does anyone agree with their reasoning on the "unpardonable sin" being linked to racial segragation? (please bare in mind I am only asking for opinions so not out to offend anyone who finds this offensive)
Thank you

I don't know about this group or movement. But racism is just a fancy word given for a type of hate - usually only given after it goes out and comes back again. Which makes it akin to war. Yet hate is a peculiar thing. God, whom is good, hates. But if a man hates his brother...he is a murder. Which might just be fitting of this group.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

I have never met anyone who was in the KKK we don't have such in Australia.

But we do have a new type of Christianity nowadays that does not represent what any of the major Christian religions really were years before. it's that Jesus Christ has been taken out of the picture, I watched a program on TV to day about the history of the popes, that had smart arse claims about things that they clearly had no idea about, but they would sound very good to the average atheist or dilettante. they finished of with that the Popes position was a Job ? how pathetic can on be, any Priest that thinks that they have a Job is a moron and must be Satanic, it's a Vocation.

The whole of Christianity is under attack from all sides and especially nowadays, it's in it's death throughs and the Jews and Islam have always been trying to undermine Christianity not to mention they are in the proses of taking it over, not to mention they have been at war with Christianity always, but the average Christian does not understand the in depth workings of such a war that they wage and it's working real well.
Many idiot so called Christians are looking to the Jews nowadays ha ha ha how stupid can one be ! that's like a dog going back to it's Vomit. not to mention a rejection of Jesus Christ.

 

[CoreIssue]

Just read your link. Thanks.
Have the CI got it wrong (error of scripture) or is because of the violence side of it?
I have to admit here that I actually agree with some of its teachings but not others. Does it unwittingly try to make you transgress any commandments in your opinion ?
How did it come into being?
Thanks

Not an expert on this one but that kind of thinking has been around for long time and it is not limited to whites.

I was born and raised near Chicago, so I'm very familiar with groups like Nation of Islam and Black Panthers.

The original Black Panthers initiation was to kill a white and cut off his ears as proof.

Nation of Islam at one point wanted to break the Gold Coast of Chicago off into a separate country.

Just as bad as some of the white power groups.

 

[Enoch111]

Can I please ask what other peoples opinions are of this labeled offshoot of scripture and study?

Hi Danube and Welcome.

Got Questions is generally a good source for biblical answers. This is what they have to say:

Question: "What is the Christian Identity Movement?"

Answer: The Christian Identity Movement is a name that applies to a variety of different religious cults all identified by racist, anti-Semitic principles. These cults are typically found among radically anti-government, extremist, right-wing groups and “survival groups.” Christian Identity cults are connected by various unbiblical theological similarities, mostly centered on a white supremacist mindset that seeks to replace national Israel with British or American whites as the chosen people of God. This racist theology is followed by over 50,000 people in the United States. The largest Christian Identity Movement group is the infamous Ku Klux Klan...

What is the Christian Identity Movement?

 

[Danube]

Thanks people.
Some food for thought here.
I have to admit I am going through a massive intake of information and came to find out that Israel spoken about in CI is very different to Israel as the geographical namesake, I was horrified to learn that modern Judaism contains Edom! I read God hated Esau but loved Jacob who became Israel in the bible narrative while reading the Jewish encyclopedia it explained Edom is mixed into modern Jewry and it really did check out when I was told to go and research this, I am still shocked to learn this. I am perplexed and a little confused as I see CI explaining questions that my CofE close friends and family had no answer to. I do not consider myself racist but I always thought "kind after kind" meant what "racism" can be construed from in a negative context (ie I like my own race and I am white...does that really nake me racist of following kind after kind?)
Am I the only person that believes Jesus to be the Messiah but still confused as to why Israel is synonymous with Israel (one being a people another meaning a geographical area)???? Anyway I will continue my studies now. Thanks you everyone who has replied and taken the time to answer this impossible to debate topic.

 

[CoreIssue]

Thanks people.
Some food for thought here.
I have to admit I am going through a massive intake of information and came to find out that Israel spoken about in CI is very different to Israel as the geographical namesake, I was horrified to learn that modern Judaism contains Edom! I read God hated Esau but loved Jacob who became Israel in the bible narrative while reading the Jewish encyclopedia it explained Edom is mixed into modern Jewry and it really did check out when I was told to go and research this, I am still shocked to learn this. I am perplexed and a little confused as I see CI explaining questions that my CofE close friends and family had no answer to. I do not consider myself racist but I always thought "kind after kind" meant what "racism" can be construed from in a negative context (ie I like my own race and I am white...does that really nake me racist of following kind after kind?)
Am I the only person that believes Jesus to be the Messiah but still confused as to why Israel is synonymous with Israel (one being a people another meaning a geographical area)???? Anyway I will continue my studies now. Thanks you everyone who has replied and taken the time to answer this impossible to debate topic.

Kind after kind. An ancient discussion.

When you study see when God divided the races he gave certain characteristics to each race that still exist today.

Then there's the issue of interracial marriages. Another big topic and one I don't have a good answer for. But I can point out that as apostasy increases so do interracial marriages. But does that mean anything? I don't know.

All I can say is God told Jews to marry Jews and Christians to marry Christians. But it also gave instructions if they married someone else.

As far as Israel goes, remember it is used in two different context. One context is Israel as a nation of believers. The other is Israel as a nation like any other nation.

In the MK Israel will be far larger than it is today.

The difference being today Israel is not a nation of believers but it was in much of the Old Testament and will be in the MK.

Maybe thinking of Israel as a nation of believers at times in a nation of potential at other times will help. Maybe not.

Well, now I've done my part to add to your confusion.

Wish I had simple answers, but I don't.

 

[Danube]

I thank you for staying part of the conversation and I appreciate your being respectful.

How strange it is, that with all the definite and positive assurances in the Word of God as to Israel's continuance forever as a Nation, there has never been any continued or persistent effort on the part of genuine Bible believers to find them. That they have been content to let them fade away and vanish into nothingness is surely a deep reproach on all true Christians.

There is, however, one probable explanation. It was GOD'S WILL AND PURPOSE TO HIDE THEM. While the Jews (some of whom are only a part of the Rouse of Judah) occupied the stage, and even called themselves "Israel", God could work unhindered with and in "Lost Israel", till he had finished his predetermined work, and without them knowing they were the people of the Book. Only as Israel's time of punishment had run out, with the whole of God's purposes at the point of complete fulfillment, was the identity of Israel to become known.

However, it is a matter of inspired record that God placed "marks" on His people Israel. During the Christian dispensation, Lost Israel was to possess these marks of identification. So then, if we can discover the nations and people with Israel's marks, we have found the people whom God chose to serve Him to be a channel of blessing to all mankind. The God-given marks are very many, and while the following list is not exhaustive, they constitute a chain of evidence utterly impossible to ignore.



While Israelites remain in other countries, America is the home of millions of all the thirteen tribes (one out of many) and thus is representative of the whole House of Jacob. We are bound by Israel's responsibilities; fulfilling Israel's destiny. The MARKS are on us everywhere; in our NAME; in our SABBATH; in our INSTITUTIONS; in our PHILANTHROPY; in our COMMERCE; in our WEALTH; in our MINES; in our AGRICULTURE; in our CHURCHES; in our MISSIONARY ENTERPRISES; in our ARMED FORCES; in our POSSESSION OF THE BIBLE: - all BIRTHMARKS, which neither time, nor the ages, nor even our sin can wipe out.

1. Israel to be great and mighty nation. Gen. 12:2; 18:18; Deut. 4:7,8.

2. Israel to have multitudinous seed. Gen. 13:16; 15:5; 22:17; 24:60; 26:4, 24; 28:3, 14; 32:12; 49:22; Isa. 10:22; Hos. 1:10; Zech. 10:7,8.

3. Israel to spread abroad to the West, East, North and South. Gen. 28:14; Isa. 42:5, 6.

4. Israel to have a new home. 2nd Sam. 7:10; 1st Chron. 17:9.

5. Israel's home to be north-west of Palestine. Isa. 49:12; Jer. 3:18.

6. Israel to live in islands and coasts of the earth. Isa. 41:1; 49:1-3; 51:5; Jer. 31:7-10.

7. Israel to become a company of nations. Gen. 17:4-6, 15,16; 35:11; 48:19; Eph. 2:12.

8. Israel to have a Davidic King (a perpetual monarchy within Israel). 2nd Sam. 7:13,19; 1st Chron. 22:10; 2nd Chron. 13:5; Psa. 89:20, 37; Eze. 37:24; Jer. 33:17, 21, 26.

9. Israel to colonize and spread abroad. Gen. 28:14; 49:22; Deut. 32:8; 33:17; Psa. 2:8; Isa. 26:15; 27:6; 54:2; Zech. 10:8,9.

10. Israel to colonize the desolate place of the earth. Isa. 35:1; 43:19, 20; 49:8; 54:3; 58:11, 12.

11. Israel to lose a colony, then expand, demanding more room. Isa. 49:19, 20.

12. Israel to have all the land needed. Deut. 32:8.

13. Israel to be the first among the nations. Gen. 27:29; 28:13; Jer. 31:7.

14. Israel to continue as a nation forever. 2nd Sam. 7:16, 24, 29; 1st Chron. 17:22-27; Jer. 31:35-37.

15. Israel's home to be invincible to outside forces. 2nd Sam. 7:10; Isa. 41:11-14.

16. Israel to be undefeatable - defended by God. Num. 24:8, 9; Isa. 15-17; Micah 5:8, 9.

17. Israel to be God's instrument in destroying evil. Jer. 51:20; 51:19-24; Dan. 2:34, 35.

18. Israel to have a land of great mineral wealth. Gen. 49:25, 26; Deut. 8:9; 33:15-19.

19. Israel to have a land of great agricultural wealth. Gen. 27:28; Deut. 8:7, 9; 28:11; 33:13, 14, 28.

20. Israel to be rich by trading. Isa. 60:5-11; 61:6.

21. Israel to be envied and feared by all nations. Deut. 2:25; 4:8; 28:10; Isa. 43:4; 60:10, 12; Micah 7:16, 17; Jer. 33:9.

22. Israel to lend to other nations, borrowing of none. Deut. 15:6; 28.12.

23. Israel to have a new name. Isa. 62:2; 65:15; Hos. 2:17.

24. Israel to have a new language. Isa. 28:11 (The Bible, by means of which God speaks now to Israel, is English not Hebrew).

25. Israel to possess the gates of his enemies. Gen. 22:17.

26. Israel to find the aborigines diminishing before them. Deut. 33:17; Isa. 60:12.

27. Israel to have control of the seas. Deut. 33:19; Num. 24:7; Psa. 89:25; Isa. 60:5 (F. Fenton translates this last, "when rolls up to you all the wealth of the sea". That could not be unless Israel controlled it).

28. Israel to have a new religion (New Covenant.) Heb. 8:10-13; 9:17; Matt. 10:5-7; Luke 1:77; 2:32; 22:20; John 11:49-52; Gal. 3:13.

29. Israel to lose all trace of her lineage. Isa. 42:16-19; Hos. 1:9, 10; 2:6; Rom. 11:25.

30. Israel to keep Sabbath forever (one day in seven set aside). Ex. 31:13, 16, 17; Isa. 58:13, 14.

31. Israel to be called the sons of God (i.e., accept Christianity). Hos. 1:10-11.

32. Israel to be a people saved by the Lord. Deut. 33:27-29; Isa. 41:8-14; 43:1-8;44:1-3;49:25, 26; 52:1-12; 55:3-10, 13; Jer. 46:27, 28; Eze. 34:10-16; Hos. 2:23; 13:9-14; 14:4, 6.

33. Israel to be the custodians of the Oracles (Scriptures) of God. Psa. 147:19, 21; Isa. 59-21.

34. Israel to carry the Gospel to all the world. Gen. 28:14; Isa. 43:10-12 (witnesses), 21; Micah 5:7.

35. Israel to be kind to the poor and set slaves free. Deut. 15:7, 11; Psa. 72:4; Isa. 42:7; 49:9; 58:6.

36. Israel to be the heir of the world. Rom. 4:13.

37. Israel to be God's Glory. Isa. 46:13; 49:3; 60:1, 2.

38. Israel to possess God's Holy Spirit as well as His Word. Isa. 44:3; 59:21; Hagg. 2:5.

39. Israel to be God's Heritage, formed by God, forever. Deut. 4:20; 7:6; 14:2; 2nd Sam. 7:23; 1st Kings 8:51, 53; Isa. 43:21; 54:5-10; Hos. 2:19, 23; Joel 2:27; Micah 7:14 -18.

40. Israel is the nation appointed to bring glory to God. Isa. 41:8-16; 43:10, 21; 44:23; 49:3.



Isaiah 51:1
"Listen to me, you who pursue righteousness and who seek the LORD: Look to the rock from which you were cut and to the quarry from which you were hewn;

 

[Helen]

What is the Christian Identity Movement?

Cult and utterly disgusting.

I didn't know any of that! Thanks for info.

 

[Enoch111]

I was horrified to learn that modern Judaism contains Edom!

Not sure where you got this information, but it is false.

Geographically, the kingdom of Edom would have been the region south of Israel, and that is now in Jordan. Only Arabs occupy the regions known as Edom, Moab, and Ammon.

 

[Danube]

Not sure where you got this information, but it is false.

Geographically, the kingdom of Edom would have been the region south of Israel, and that is now in Jordan. Only Arabs occupy the regions known as Edom, Moab, and Ammon.

The JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA, edition of 1925, Vol. 5, page 41, states "Edom is in modern Jewry.

“from then on [Edomites] constituted a part of the jewish people, Herod being one of their descendants”, The Standard Jewish Encyclopedia, 1966 Doubleday & Company, Inc , Garden City, New York, Pg. 592.
The [non-Israelite] Edomites became a section of the Jewish people. "EDOM," Encyclopaedia Judaica (Jerusalem, Israel: Encyclopaedia Judaica Company, 1971) Vol. 6, p. 378

They [the non-Israelite Edomites] were then incorporated with the Jewish nation…. "EDOM, IDUMEA," The Jewish Encyclopedia (New York & London: Funk and Wagnalls Company, 1904) Vol. V, p. 41

· …from then on they [the non-Israelite Edomites] constituted a part of the Jewish people, Herod [King of Judea] being one of their descendants. "EDOM (Idumea)," The New Standard Jewish Encyclopedia (Garden City, NY: Doubleday & Company, Inc., 1977) p. 589

· …they [the Edomites] were hereafter no other than [non-Israelite] Jews. Flavius Josephus, The Antiquities of the Jews (Grand Rapids, MI: Dregel Publications, 1960) Book XIII, Chapter IX, Verse 1, p. 279

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Fact of the matter is that Jews or if one may say Israel or Judah are not a race and never were about race.
Sure the people were a Semitic race but fact is they were only one Tribe of such that there were many other Tribes, the Bible tell us so.
People have been lead astray by the cunning of the Satanist works that play games to delude all that they can, one for example is like what now is termed Anti-Semitic ? now what truly does Anti-Semitic mean ? well it's a great lie in fact, that the way that most are led to believe, what it means is Anti-Jewish ?
Satan is the Father of lies and one must understand how he works or you will be lead astray.
Truly Anti-Semitic means Anti-Arab in fact, why because the majority of Semitic people are Arabs in fact, not to mention that most of the Jews nowadays are not even Semitic.

Truly to be a Jew one has to be a Religious OT believing person, just as it is with a person who is a Christian believing or even a Islamic person comes under the same as to ones identity, even Islam does not have anything to do with race as it's foundation, fact is that anyone can become into the Islam religion.
Religions have nothing to do with race and anyone who thinks that it does is an idiot.
Now some idiots may claim racial Religious nonsense, just like the bigoted total racist Zionists or this so called KKK Christian Identity movement, but when one looks into all such fools in depth you will find that they are truly just Satanic, they are under the powers of being lead astray by Satan and nothing to do with Jesus Christ at all.
The powers of Satan are that they lead the whole world astray from God and this works to create great delusions in peoples minds, so that they stray from God.
Satan is the greatest tempter of all and creates delusions, one must come to Jesus Christ to see through the delusions and you shall know them by their works !
Jesus Christ is the only way, all must come and abide in him only, not you denomination not you race not you political views, but to abide in him first and foremost in your lives.

 

[Willie T]

Boy, I have read some confused things... but this whole thread is way out in front of whatever is in second place.

 

[Danube]

I find it facinating how some cleave to the Jewish LIE, even when you show them evidence of their own people (written by jews) and who are clearly proud to include their heritage, telling you who they are, your minds simply cannot process such truths, you recoil back underneath without anything such as a thank you for doing what you ask, ironically always the first to demand "proof" "evidence".
Well there you are, those of you who follow people around the forums patting eachother on the back, while someone presents you with clear evidence of jews telling you in their own literature who they are and it still befuddles you. Facinating to quickly learn who is actually here to learn during this fleeting age of information (internet etc) and who are here to protect their status quo.

 

[Danube]

Satan is the greatest tempter of all and creates delusions, one must come to Jesus Christ to see through the delusions and you shall know them by their works !
Jesus Christ is the only way, all must come and abide in him only, not you denomination not you race not you political views, but to abide in him first and foremost in your lives.

Are you familiar or related to Christ by his flesh and blood (bread and wine communion)?
He is not interested if you call yourself a jew because he knew there would be those who called themselves "jews" but were not and were liars.

Christian Identists know they should diligently way up all the evidence presented and make an informed choice based upon finding the truth. Jesus said his flock would hear his voice.

Israel = people (Isaac' sons/saxons)

Jewish = mixed race adherant to Pharisee religion proven to include Edomite blood lliving off the scraps of the true Israel but using the same name for a geographical "land mass" biblically once named Palestine?

Why sermon about Sheep or Goats when most of the denominations wish to preach universalism.

Wheat or Tares...
A clear distinction by sight of eye when you get up close enough to study!

Christian Identity is a strange phenomenon that is based upon the search for Israels TRUE identity. If its false it will soon be found out to be! Truth wins out in the end. Amen!

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

It's funny that people claim I am a Jew because of my sir name and when I say that I am a Christian they get really angry with me for saying that I am a Christian ? I have just always let it slide because they are just fools or idiots or brainwashed morons, it's no point in arguing with a idiot. who insults me like that.
I may say that I am a dedicated Christian you know, to them and that they are confronting me with the most insulting position that could ever be given to me, but they do not get it !
I just told you something that I was and to have that rejected directly to your face ? listen mate I do not support the murder of Jesus Christ ? or the cunning or conniving of such devils at all.
It's also greatly insulting that such people would be the type that would of sent me off to the Nazi prison camps without a second thought in fact, try dealing with knowing that's the type of moron you have in front of you. well the audacity and unmitigated gall.
Not to mention the anger of such so called Christians proves that they truly are not Christians to me at all. it's like dealing with Satan himself and they get worked up in such a spin, fact is that they truly hate Jews but play the games just like Satan does and come the idolising fool as long as you agree with them, so lets say I agree with them and just talk like a total bigot and just be a bastard and talk about sex and abusing people, well they love that. it's amazing. but if I talk about Jesus Christ they will turn on me, I could talk about religion that's fine, but not Jesus Christ about what he truly is and is all about, not many that claim to be Christians can handle that, I have had them say you are not allowed to talk about that, that's not for todays compensation. well BS I say to that, Jesus Christ is to be preached to all regardless, come Hell or high water and I don't give a rats what some little dictator Hitler types think.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Are you familiar or related to Christ by his flesh and blood (bread and wine communion)?
He is not interested if you call yourself a jew because he knew there would be those who called themselves "jews" but were not and were liars.

Christian Identists know they should diligently way up all the evidence presented and make an informed choice based upon finding the truth. Jesus said his flock would hear his voice.

Israel = people (Isaac' sons/saxons)

Jewish = mixed race adherant to Pharisee religion proven to include Edomite blood lliving off the scraps of the true Israel but using the same name for a geographical "land mass" biblically once named Palestine?

Why sermon about Sheep or Goats when most of the denominations wish to preach universalism.

Wheat or Tares...
A clear distinction by sight of eye when you get up close enough to study!

Christian Identity is a strange phenomenon that is based upon the search for Israels TRUE identity. If its false it will soon be found out to be! Truth wins out in the end. Amen!

Ok for a start I will point it out to you, that one has to be Born Again to understand what Israel is.
One comes to truly know that Jesus Christ is 100% and he then abides in you with the Holy Spirit and you become as one, a Servant of God, who is Emmanuel 'God with us' who is our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. carnal man can not perceive this, because it has not been given to understand truly.

The Wheat and the Tares are not truly seen for what they are so one has to be carful not to turn one that could be Wheat into the Tares. I would say that the ones who will not bear fruit will not come over but the point is that they may, it's not all plain simple as it may seem.
When Nathaniel was under the tree he was working so as for Israel to bear fruit and Jesus appeared and he knew who Jesus was directly, now the other Jews it took time and Jesus called one of them Peter and Peter did not know that he was.

All must come to the wellspring to drink freely.

 

[Danube]

I am only interested in the truth of the content of CI and thanks to heavily influenced jewish paranoia I have to try to find out about this Christian concept here and a only a few other places because strangely it makes "jews" come out from behind their curtain and set up quick-stall victim hood epistles, which has to include the staples of their diet (hitler this..anti semetism that..) I am not interested in that because its a tired set menu of conversation derailment. So I will only ever go as far as showing my frustration for people avoiding the glaring facts contained within the topic or substance and material. Especially when someone makes you out to be a liar but when asked and you to prove something to them and show the truth someone else turns up for their little stab at it.
Why all the negativity. Truth is Truth!

'Let go of your complaints, forgive those who loved you poorly, step over your feelings of being rejected, and have the courage to trust that you won't fall into an abyss of nothingness but into the safe embrace of a God whose love will heal all your wounds.”