Christian Superstition

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pia

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@"ByGrace" Just found and read your original post about this....I had gotten the wrong end of the stick, many apologies.....That was a wonderful post Helen, just marvelous.......If only those who say they are believers would come together and simply 'believe'....Imagine what He could accomplish though willing vessels like that ( I'm sure you feel as blessed as I do having actually experienced His willingness and Love ). :)
 

aspen

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- treating the Bible like a living being or god
- believing the church will save you
- believing that God belongs to a political party
- believing that you can effect an outcome by praying
- believing that religious paraphernalia have power - statues, rosaries, Bibles, buildings, Bible degrees, memorized verses.
- believing that feelings of group think are exclusive to Christianity or ‘true believers’ whoare gathered together.
- believing you can save someone.
- believing your spiritual condition impedes God’s will.
- believing the Bible is a magic 8 ball that predicts specific events or dates in the future.
- believing exercising faith is the same thing as knowing or doubling down on information
- believing a lack of faith will damn you
- believing you are in control of you relationship with God
 

Miss Hepburn

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I think God's Will is pretty easy...that is the privilege I have for being new to the Bible!
I haven' had a lot of input and interpretaions from others.
His Will is reflected in all the dealings Jesus had with people.
[And there were a lot!)
In things that Jesus said.
Sure we could make a list...but, off the top
whatever is good, pure, kind ,compassionate, generous, unselfish,
charitable, and forgiving ...
Wealth, abundance, health, success, wisdom, confidence and happiness....not
money related....but in
relationships with all the things around us and with Him.

No matter if someone comes up with something different..I don't care...
I know my Dad...and that's what He wants for me and us...all things good and
wonderful....full of His Love.

Promises? Oh my, maybe someone else could take that one...we are heirs,
residents of His Kingdom...we are His...made in His image...kings...as Jesus said;
His children and all that that means !!
It's all good news.


Btw, I am asked a lot...people that call me that are friends of friends of friends to pray on things for them...I have never once said, "if" it be Thy Will...I know what His Will is...for our good...
Not to help us rob a bank...for all things good and pure. :]

And hi there, Pia, xo...
 
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Helen

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I think God's Will is pretty easy...that is the privilege I have for being new to the Bible!
I haven' had a lot of input and interpretaions from others.
His Will is reflected in all the dealings Jesus had with people.
[And there were a lot!)
In things that Jesus said.
Sure we could make a list...but, off the top
whatever is good, pure, kind ,compassionate, generous, unselfish,
charitable, and forgiving ...
Wealth, abundance, health, success, wisdom, confidence and happiness....not
money related....but in
relationships with all the things around us and with Him.

No matter if someone comes up with something different..I don't care...
I know my Dad...and that's what He wants for me and us...all things good and
wonderful....full of His Love.

Promises? Oh my, maybe someone else could take that one...we are heirs,
residents of His Kingdom...we are His...made in His image...kings...as Jesus said;
His children and all that that means !!
It's all good news.


Btw, I am asked a lot...people that call me that are friends of friends of friends to pray on things for them...I have never once said, "if" it be Thy Will...I know what His Will is...for our good...
Not to help us rob a bank...for all things good and pure. :]

And hi there, Pia, xo...

Another excellent post, a joy to read. :)
 

Helen

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Oct 22, 2011
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@"ByGrace" Sorry if I offended, was not my intent, I just think sometimes we are hard on ourselves unnecessarily and knowing all of our Fathers will may not be as easy as we think :)........In relation to my grandson, it wasn't until he had already been in surgery for two hours when I got the call about his situation, and the operation was still going....The second I hung up the phone it was exactly the same as the night he was born.....It was as if The Lord Himself prayed through my mouth, just a quick couple of sentences followed by complete peace.....No, I did not end my prayer with " IF it be Thy will ?", because I know Him well enough to know that it is NOT His will, that the enemy should bring such grief and suffering into any persons life, as I am certain you also know.........Besides, Jesus was obviously already 'on the job' when my grandson fell, as everyone is astounded that he didn't break any bones, not to mention that having landed on his head, that his head hadn't gone the way of a water melon having fallen the same height...........His will is ALWAYS for good so we need never wonder if God is willing to help with something or someone which is for good, because His answer will always be a solid 'YES', so as long as we can have our faith in Him and not doubt, He can then DO...Any which way I look at it (and believe me it has been on my mind a whole lot, as you can probably imagine ) , The Lord did this on His own ( protecting him during the fall), prior to Lyall going to the hospital and I feel certain, that if I or any other believer had known prior to him going into surgery, he may not even have needed that surgery, so I really want to keep searching the Lord for real understanding, of how He sometimes can do things without us asking first, and other times it seems we have to verbalize the request......To make it stand out even more for me...On the exact same day Lyall fell off that cliff, my best friends husbands nephew fell of a shed roof, he ended up breaking quite a few bones as well as 3 vertebrae in his neck....He is still in the hospital now, able to only raise his arms partly and with almost no grip in his hands and his legs aren't working...as well as that he has confusion and anger outbursts, which is apparently not like him.....So go figure ??? Another one I heard which happened recently, was a young man of 17 ( can't recall exactly where this was ) who was , just like my grandson, taking photographs...He leaned over slightly to take a photo of an abandoned elevator shaft and he fell 15 FEET and was killed instantly.....Lyall fell more than 15 meters....Nobody would be able to convince me that God wasn't to thank for that, and I feel certain you would be the first to agree......But I sure would love to gain more understanding and insight to our Fathers ways and abilities and the how's of why and how we often block Him making it impossible for Him to do what His will is, as we have to agree with His will of course......Sorry I'm rambling now haha.....Anyhow I'm off for a bit, got friends coming in about 15 minutes...have a good day :D

Amen. I wasn't offended, I could tell you hadn't read all the related posts. :)

Have fun with friends. xx
 
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Dcopymope

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- believing that God belongs to a political party
- believing that you can effect an outcome by praying

So is this what Paul was proposing here? According to Paul, praying for governments can lead to "a quiet and peaceful life". If only this actually worked out for the Christians in places like North Korea.

(1 Timothy 2:1-3) "I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; {2} For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. {3} For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;"

Lots of Christians here seem to believe that God belongs to political parties, the conservative right in particular. There are some who believe the president needs our prayers as some sort of protection from the evil atheist left that are allegedly out for his head on a stake. I don't pray for leaders, I don't even vote in fact. The political system is a joke to me, and I find the way Christians relate their faith to the ordinances of men quite.....well......odd.
 
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BreadOfLife

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One definition: a belief or practice resulting from ignorance, fear of the unknown, trust in magic or chance, or a false conception of causation (if I say or do this rightly, then such and such must happen).

Examples:
1. Belief that the Eucharist (bread and wine of Communion) is your God (the physical object is worshipped).

2. Statements like: You've nullified faith (for a healing, etc.) if you say 'Thy will be done' or 'if it be Thy will' or 'according to Thy will'.
I understood what you were trying to say regarding #2.
I have more of a problem with #1. Why would you call belief in the Real Presence in the Eucharist "Superstition" when it is clearly taught in Scripture??

In fact - of most of Christ's teachings - this is one of the most explicit teachings in the entire Gospel.
How is this "Superstitious"??
 

BreadOfLife

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- treating the Bible like a living being or god
- believing the church will save you
- believing that God belongs to a political party
- believing that you can effect an outcome by praying
- believing that religious paraphernalia have power - statues, rosaries, Bibles, buildings, Bible degrees, memorized verses.
- believing that feelings of group think are exclusive to Christianity or ‘true believers’ whoare gathered together.
- believing you can save someone.
- believing your spiritual condition impedes God’s will.
- believing the Bible is a magic 8 ball that predicts specific events or dates in the future.
- believing exercising faith is the same thing as knowing or doubling down on information
- believing a lack of faith will damn you
- believing you are in control of you relationship with God
Not really sure which "god" you believe in - but it doesn't appear to be the God of the Bible.

Whereas, God wills the salvation of ALL people and that they ALL come to a knowledge of the Truth - this is NOT the case with everybody.
If you believe that everybody will eventually be saved - then you believe in the heresy of Universalism.

Also - believing that we don't possess a free will is an invention of men like John Calvin.
Denying that prayer can affect an outcome is explicitly taught by Jesus in the Parable of the Persistent Widow (John 18:1-8).

As for believing that a Church will save us - I don't know anybody who believes this - although I recognize the veiled reference to Catholics . . .

Finally - if you believe that YOU have NO control of your relationship with God - you are tragically mistaken.
When He arrived in Jerusalem - Jesus said the following:
Matt. 23:37
"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and YOU WERE NOT WILLING.
 

tabletalk

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I understood what you were trying to say regarding #2.
I have more of a problem with #1. Why would you call belief in the Real Presence in the Eucharist "Superstition" when it is clearly taught in Scripture??

In fact - of most of Christ's teachings - this is one of the most explicit teachings in the entire Gospel.
How is this "Superstitious"??


Because, most Protestants do not believe in the Real Presence, as your Church teaches. We believe in the Real Presence, but the Eucharist is not God.(you might say that is un-Real, I guess)
Therefore, it sounds like magic to proclaim that the bread and wine become God at the words of consecration.
 
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BreadOfLife

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Because, most Protestants do not believe in the Real Presence, as your Church teaches. We believe in the Real Presence, but the Eucharist is not God.(you might say that is un-Real, I guess)
Therefore, it sounds like magic to proclaim that the bread and wine become God at the words of consecration.
Hmmm . . . .

Does it sound like "magic" to say that Jesus took six giant jars of water and turned them into wine?
Does it sound like "magic" to say that Jesus took 5 loaves of bread and 2 fish and fed over 5000 people - with 12 baskets left over?
Does it sound like "magic" to say that a human female was impregnated by God?
Does it sound like "magic" to say that some "supreme being" just spoke and the universe leapt into existence?

Didn't Jesus say that with God ALL things are possible (Matt. 19:26)??
Where is your faith??
 
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tabletalk

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Hmmm . . . .

Does it sound like "magic" to say that Jesus took six giant jars of water and turned them into wine?
Does it sound like "magic" to say that Jesus took 5 loaves of bread and 2 fish and fed over 5000 people - with 12 baskets left over?
Does it sound like "magic" to say that a human female was impregnated by God?
Does it sound like "magic" to say that some "supreme being" just spoke and the universe leapt into existence?

Didn't Jesus say that with God ALL things are possible (Matt. 19:26)??
Where
is your faith??


My faith is in a God I cannot see, which seems to conform to the Biblical definition of faith: the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen (or, if you see it, why do you still hope for it?). I would not need faith or hope if I can see God.
I do believe God can do what your Church teaches, but I don't believe He changes the substance of the bread and wine into Himself.
 

bbyrd009

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- treating the Bible like a living being or god
- believing the church will save you
- believing that God belongs to a political party
- believing that you can effect an outcome by praying
- believing that religious paraphernalia have power - statues, rosaries, Bibles, buildings, Bible degrees, memorized verses.
- believing that feelings of group think are exclusive to Christianity or ‘true believers’ whoare gathered together.
- believing you can save someone.
- believing your spiritual condition impedes God’s will.
- believing the Bible is a magic 8 ball that predicts specific events or dates in the future.
- believing exercising faith is the same thing as knowing or doubling down on information
- believing a lack of faith will damn you
- believing you are in control of you relationship with God
nice
 

BreadOfLife

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My faith is in a God I cannot see, which seems to conform to the Biblical definition of faith: the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen (or, if you see it, why do you still hope for it?). I would not need faith or hope if I can see God.
I do believe God can do what your Church teaches, but I don't believe He changes the substance of the bread and wine into Himself.
Should Jesus have said, "This symbolizes my Body" and "This only represents my Blood" at the Last Supper?
Should He have told the crowds, "Unless you symbolically eat my flesh and drink my Blood you have no life within you."

The majority of His followers abandoned Him (John 6:66) when He told them they had to eat His FLESH and drink His BLOOD.
Did He turn to them and explain that it was just a "symbol"? NO - He turn to His Apostles and said, "Do you also want to leave?" - because he meant what He said.

It's not just a shame that most Protestants reject the Eucharist - it's a tragedy . . .
 

aspen

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Not really sure which "god" you believe in - but it doesn't appear to be the God of the Bible.

Whereas, God wills the salvation of ALL people and that they ALL come to a knowledge of the Truth - this is NOT the case with everybody.
If you believe that everybody will eventually be saved - then you believe in the heresy of Universalism.

Also - believing that we don't possess a free will is an invention of men like John Calvin.
Denying that prayer can affect an outcome is explicitly taught by Jesus in the Parable of the Persistent Widow (John 18:1-8).

As for believing that a Church will save us - I don't know anybody who believes this - although I recognize the veiled reference to Catholics . . .

Finally - if you believe that YOU have NO control of your relationship with God - you are tragically mistaken.
When He arrived in Jerusalem - Jesus said the following:
Matt. 23:37
"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and YOU WERE NOT WILLING.

I am not saying that prayer is ineffective. I am saying that mistaking ourselves as the change agent during prayer is superstitious. God is the change agent - people without a relationship with God can pray all they want in vain.
 

BreadOfLife

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I am not saying that prayer is ineffective. I am saying that mistaking ourselves as the change agent during prayer is superstitious. God is the change agent - people without a relationship with God can pray all they want in vain.
Then your original statement is incorrectly worded.
It would be more correct to say, "- believing that our prayers are answered according to our will."
 
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bbyrd009

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The majority of His followers abandoned Him (John 6:66) when He told them they had to eat His FLESH and drink His BLOOD.
Did He turn to them and explain that it was just a "symbol"? NO - He turn to His Apostles and said, "Do you also want to leave?" - because he meant what He said.
more rungs on that ladder actually, lotta symbolism goin on in there