Christian Superstition

[BreadOfLife]

But "breaking bread daily" was not spoken as a ritual...it is speaking of - Fellowship ...just like in our day we say " Come over for coffee and cake"
That is breaking bread from house to house...we still do it...
But, as we always end up saying ...we will all believe just what we all believe to be 'right' to believe.
No one gets his mind changed except by the Holy Spirit..."for a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still. "

Actually - Acts 2:46 indicates that they engaged in the "breaking of bread" - PLUS the eating of a meal.

In the new Testament, "Breaking bread" symbolized what Jesus did at the Last Supper.
Consider what happened on the Road to Emmaus after the Resurrection:

Luke 24:30-31
When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them. Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight.

In 1 Corinthians 11:27-30, Paul speaks to the reality of the Eucharist and the severity of the consequences to those who take this lightly:

“Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. A person should examine himself, and so eat the bread and drink the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself. That is why many among you are ill and infirm, and a considerable number are dying.”

This is pretty harsh language for something that Protestants claim is only a "symbol".

 

[Truth]

The breaking of Bread and the Wine started with Abram, after He retrieved Lot and Family. The Priest of the Most High came to Abram with Bread and Wine, I believe that at this time Abram was shown the Savior's coming. Remember Jesus said to the Pharisees, Abraham rejoiced to see me, and they said you are not even fifty years old. Just paraphrasing, not word for word,OK! Jesus also said as Often as you do this, Do it in remembrance of Me. The Tradition from Abraham's time to this day is done every week, at the beginning of the Hebrew Sabbath! The Father of the Home raises a loaf of Bread toward Heaven, and speaks a Blessing to God, then lifts a cup of wine and speaks another Blessing to God.
The Blessing of Bread- Blessed are you O Lord our God. King of the Universe, Who brings forth Bread from out of the Earth!
The Wine Blessing- Blessed are you O Lord our God, King of the Universe, Who brings forth the Fruit of the Vine!
How often do you think that the Apostles did This!!! AS OFTEN AS YOU DO THIS, DO THIS IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME! By the way it is Bread, not Unleavened bread, with the Exception of Passover and during the 7 days of unleavened Bread!

 

[bbyrd009]

so we can see that the ritual takes many forms, but it is the real deal that matters anyway, as is verified the first time we witness someone being true to their ritual yet denying Christ in whatever manner IRL. Taking communion will not get one into heaven, iow; and never taking communion will not disallow someone, either

 

[aspen]

But "breaking bread daily" was not spoken as a ritual...it is speaking of - Fellowship ...just like in our day we say " Come over for coffee and cake"
That is breaking bread from house to house...we still do it...
But, as we always end up saying ...we will all believe just what we all believe to be 'right' to believe.
No one gets his mind changed except by the Holy Spirit..."for a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still. "

Here’s the problem: People who do not understand a custom call it an empty ritual. The Eucharist is incredibly meaningful for people who believe it to be true.

 

[pia]

Too many things have become 'just what we do' whichever fellowship one goes to....Seems almost anything but actually spending time with Him is a green light, and any of us who say this, get pounced upon at times or just bad mouthed in some way...Our Father spent millennia making it so we could have fellowship with Him again ( as Adam had lost us that privilege), but what did they ( and us at times ) do ? Turned it into just another way of religious observance , STILL without the fellowship God yearns for with us, filled with strict things and demands Jesus never made of us...Time again for the pure milk of the Word for many..

 

[BreadOfLife]

so we can see that the ritual takes many forms, but it is the real deal that matters anyway, as is verified the first time we witness someone being true to their ritual yet denying Christ in whatever manner IRL. Taking communion will not get one into heaven, iow; and never taking communion will not disallow someone, either

Wrong.
Refusing or rejecting the Eucharist is disobedience.

Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to YOU listens to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent ME."

John 6:53-56
Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do NOT have life within you.
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has ETERNAL LIFE, and I will raise him on the last day.
For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him

Which part of Jesus' words are you not understanding?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Too many things have become 'just what we do' whichever fellowship one goes to....Seems almost anything but actually spending time with Him is a green light, and any of us who say this, get pounced upon at times or just bad mouthed in some way...Our Father spent millennia making it so we could have fellowship with Him again ( as Adam had lost us that privilege), but what did they ( and us at times ) do ? Turned it into just another way of religious observance , STILL without the fellowship God yearns for with us, filled with strict things and demands Jesus never made of us...Time again for the pure milk of the Word for many..

If you believe that "accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior" and being obedient by following His commands is NOT something we do - then you have invented a different Gospel than that of Christ.

 

[Truth]

My Great Grandma used to say that Bread is the Staff of Life! I never understood what She meant, I was not privy to the Faith, I was raised Agnostic - A - without, Gnostic - understanding - of God! Bethlehem in Hebrew means - House of Bread, the Lamb of God was born amongst the Sheepfolds, near the House of Bread. Bread is a Life sustain-er - Our Savior sustains Eternal Life, He is the Bread of Life! Wine and Blood are synonymous in the Hebrew Culture, for the Life is in the Blood. Wine will always bring joy to the Soul, if done in moderation, Our Savior is Joy to all those who Call Him Lord. I have said this before! we here in the U S are Eight thousand miles and Two thousand Years Removed from the Culture of Our Hebrew Faith Roots. If you want to get a better understanding of what Our Savior established, and what Our Savior was Faced with within the False Religion of the Pharisees, then search for some understanding about the Feasts Of THE LORD! Also look up info about the Biblical Calendar. Time and Seasons I have no need to write unto you, for You Well Know - Paul's words! Gods Calendar is a vital Key!

 

[bbyrd009]

Which part of Jesus' words are you not understanding?

oh, i guess it's more about the interpretation? imo it isn't a salvational thing anyway, but you might feel differently there i guess

 

[BreadOfLife]

oh, i guess it's more about the interpretation? imo it isn't a salvational thing anyway, but you might feel differently there i guess

Soooo, how do YOU interpret John 6:53-56?
And why do you interpret it this way?

 

[bbyrd009]

Soooo, how do YOU interpret John 6:53-56?
And why do you interpret it this way?

oh, i just take a more IRL approach to my definition of "doctrine," it's not a big deal.
If the ritual recalls to one that they must get Christ inside any way they can, then i'm all for it

 

[BreadOfLife]

oh, i just take a more IRL approach to my definition of "doctrine," it's not a big deal.
If the ritual recalls to one that they must get Christ inside any way they can, then i'm all for it

That's a cop-out.
Claiming that it's "not a big deal" doesn't make this matter less important.

If you reject the doctrine of Transubstatiation or the teaching that Jesus commands us to eat His flesh and drink His blood - then you MUST have a reason for interpreting these passages differently.

 

[bbyrd009]

That's a cop-out.
Claiming that it's "not a big deal" doesn't make this matter less important.

If you reject the doctrine of Transubstatiation or the teaching that Jesus commands us to eat His flesh and drink His blood - then you MUST have a reason for interpreting these passages differently.

ah, i would just put it down to culture, mostly. you are naturally going to tend toward the institution, and i am not

 

[epostle1]

One definition: a belief or practice resulting from ignorance, fear of the unknown, trust in magic or chance, or a false conception of causation (if I say or do this rightly, then such and such must happen).

Examples:
1. Belief that the Eucharist (bread and wine of Communion) is your God (the physical object is worshipped).

2. Statements like: You've nullified faith (for a healing, etc.) if you say 'Thy will be done' or 'if it be Thy will' or 'according to Thy will'.

Your one definition is close to the Catechism of the Catholic Church (that you despise for silly reasons)

2111 Superstition is the deviation of religious feeling and of the practices this feeling imposes. It can even affect the worship we offer the true God, e.g., when one attributes an importance in some way magical to certain practices otherwise lawful or necessary. To attribute the efficacy of prayers or of sacramental signs to their mere external performance, apart from the interior dispositions that they demand, is to fall into superstition.41
Catechism of the Catholic Church - The first commandment
Your example of the Eucharist as an object of superstition is typical fundie ignorance. The essential teaching on the Eucharist has not changed in 2000 years.

What satanists do is attempt to steal consecrated hosts so they can desecrate it at their sick black masses. They are the ones who are superstitious, not faithful Catholics. You never hear of a black satanic Protestant service. We have to post watchers at both sides of the sacristy to make sure the host is not stolen. Be more careful what you mock.

You would be smart to leave Catholicism alone, so far your snippets like the one above on the Eucharist is just meaningless psychotic hate, and you know how I feel about that kind of "Christianity".

 

[BreadOfLife]

ah, i would just put it down to culture, mostly. you are naturally going to tend toward the institution, and i am not

Why are you running from the question?
I've already stated my position.

I'm asking YOU how YOU interpret those verses.

 

[tabletalk]

Your one definition is close to the Catechism of the Catholic Church (that you despise for silly reasons)

2111 Superstition is the deviation of religious feeling and of the practices this feeling imposes. It can even affect the worship we offer the true God, e.g., when one attributes an importance in some way magical to certain practices otherwise lawful or necessary. To attribute the efficacy of prayers or of sacramental signs to their mere external performance, apart from the interior dispositions that they demand, is to fall into superstition.41
Catechism of the Catholic Church - The first commandment
Your example of the Eucharist as an object of superstition is typical fundie ignorance. The essential teaching on the Eucharist has not changed in 2000 years.

What satanists do is attempt to steal consecrated hosts so they can desecrate it at their sick black masses. They are the ones who are superstitious, not faithful Catholics. You never hear of a black satanic Protestant service. We have to post watchers at both sides of the sacristy to make sure the host is not stolen. Be more careful what you mock.

You would be smart to leave Catholicism alone, so far your snippets like the one above on the Eucharist is just meaningless psychotic hate, and you know how I feel about that kind of "Christianity".

No.

 

[bbyrd009]

Why are you running from the question?
I've already stated my position.

I'm asking YOU how YOU interpret those verses.

well, the same way i interpret "absent from the body," iow by finding the real subject, and discerning the window dressing included so that many will see and not see. But even when i'm done, see, absent from the body is still present with the Lord, surely, only just in a different sense. A ritual is instituted for those who seek ritual, and a truth is established for those who seek truth.

Lots of ppl want to worship Christ, too, see, no sense trying to change their minds, i guess.
Nehushtan is in There, waiting for them, too.
daughters of Jerusalem, do not find love until you are ready

the scroll that tastes sweet and is bitter in the stomach, i guess, something to do with that surely.

Focussing on the ritual, Transubstantiating it, or making an object of worship out of it, too, are just pointers to where one is at spiritually imo. That's right where i started too, i guess that's where everyone starts, nothing wrong with that, gotta start somewhere right

Picking up your cross is hard, and requires eating and drinking Christ, which concept is still with us today, in cliche` form, and is not a puzzle to anyone, see, i have nothing to say iow, what can i add to that?

When one is all done transubstantiating, i pray they come to an understanding of what eating and drinking Christ really means

 

[BreadOfLife]

well, the same way i interpret "absent from the body," iow by finding the real subject, and discerning the window dressing included so that many will see and not see. But even when i'm done, see, absent from the body is still present with the Lord, surely, only just in a different sense. A ritual is instituted for those who seek ritual, and a truth is established for those who seek truth.

Lots of ppl want to worship Christ, too, see, no sense trying to change their minds, i guess.
Nehushtan is in There, waiting for them, too.
daughters of Jerusalem, do not find love until you are ready

the scroll that tastes sweet and is bitter in the stomach, i guess, something to do with that surely.

Focussing on the ritual, Transubstantiating it, or making an object of worship out of it, too, are just pointers to where one is at spiritually imo. That's right where i started too, i guess that's where everyone starts, nothing wrong with that, gotta start somewhere right

Picking up your cross is hard, and requires eating and drinking Christ, which concept is still with us today, in cliche` form, and is not a puzzle to anyone, see, i have nothing to say iow, what can i add to that?

When one is all done transubstantiating, i pray they come to an understanding of what eating and drinking Christ really means

And you're STILL running from the question.
What is YOUR understanding of "eating and drinking" Christ - and WHY?

As for the fact that you don't believe that Jesus is God - well that is an outright heresy because Scripture is pretty explicit and implicit that He IS God (Isaiah 9:6, John 1:1, John 20:28, Phil. 2:6, Col. 2:9, 1 Tim. 3:16, Heb. 1:8, Titus 2:13, Isaiah 7:14, Isaiah 9:6, John 1:1, John 8:58, John 20:28, 2 Cor. 4:4, Philip. 2:6, Col. 2:9, 1 Tim. 3:16, Heb. 1:8, Titus 2:13).

 

[aspen]

A ritual is instituted for those who seek ritual, and a truth is established for those who seek truth.

A ritual is the echo of an event worth repeating. One of the reasons i joined the Catholic Church was because i found the Mass more meaningful / sacred than Protestant Church services. Ritual for me is one method of practicing loving God because my whole heart is involved. As a Protestant, i was constantly being prodded to start my relationship with Jesus over again - as if the honeymoon feeling needed to be perpetuated throughout the marriage. Human relationships do not work this way - in fact, marriages that try to remain in this stage usually end quickly.

Also, when you talk to people who have been to Mass in body only, you may hear about how empty it felt to to them; however, their experience is totally on them. Students of all ages will report similar feelings about school.

When one is all done transubstantiating, i pray they come to an understanding of what eating and drinking Christ really means

You have talked about people speaking as Oracles - i am assuming that you mean paternally or in a somewhat narrowminded and slightly condescending manner. Stating that somehow rituals like the Mass are less than full experiences seems to qualify. Simply adding ‘I guess’ to the end of a post does not take away the oracle affect.

 

[bbyrd009]

What is YOUR understanding of "eating and drinking" Christ - and WHY?

well, i don't give a more definitive answer, see, bc i don't want to...be quoted as having given an answer at all! lol
my understanding is pretty much what i have stated, BoL, i mean, you already have a definition of what the cliche` "eating and drinking _____" means, it is just a parable too, right, and parables are generated for a reason, the same reason anything you say can be taken two ways, the same reason you cannot state an absolute truth. and neither can i, sorry, but you are asking me to build a tower too, i guess.

There is nothing wrong with the understanding you have right now.
Now, write it down, in detail, and then come back to it in ten years, twenty years, or for that matter go back ten or twenty years, and review, right, i mean it hasn't remained static almost surely, somewhere in there you learned Paschal Meal, and yadayada it evolved; or it didn't evolve, whatever, that is an answer too