Christianity requires fear, guilt, and conformity

[Wrangler]

That’s your argument? Lol. When John Adams said, “Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other”, he is equating morality with religion.

No. That was my response to your argument. My argument is in these 2 points that America is and always was a Christian nation from the time of Columbus to today.

I did exhaustive research on it and found the propaganda that America is not a Christian nation false.

Columbus' charter by Queen Isabella was for the purpose of spreading Christianity, which he did. The United States federal government created an Office of the Chaplain since the beginning. Every chaplain holding that office has been Christian. The largest demographic of the US is Christian, at 70% (It's lowest % since stats began).

Every session of Congress begins with a prayer, led by a Christian minister. Every US President has been Christian. Every court proceeding requires witnesses to take on oath on THE BIBLE that what they are going to say is true.

If any of this were not the case, even if there were ONE exception, anti-Christian propagandists would use it to support their false claim.

Oh, I forgot to mention WHY Freedom of Religion was put as the list Amendment. In the colonial days, various colonies DID establish one religion over another. In EVERY single case, the established religion in the American colonies was Christian, 100%.

The fear the Founding Father's had was that one Christian denomination would seek to become the State supported religion of the super-State compact. There was no concern that non-Christian religions posed such a threat.

If there was one exception to colonies establishing one religion over another that was NOT Christian, it would be used by anti-Christian propagandists would use it to support their false claim denying that America is a Christian nation.

Just because our Christian nation decided to form a non-theocratic government, does not mean it is not a Christian culture, a Christian people and a Christian nation.

You just ignore the argument and put forth your own "evidence." Not too intellectually honest.

 

[Wrangler]

Not in denial at all. My facts disagree with your facts. This is not a Christian nation. Having Bibles in a State House means nothing.

Agh. In light of the presented facts what would mean something in support of the proposition that America is a Christian nation?

 

[Wrangler]

Others have presented the Founding Father's own words as facts

The Founding Father's were Christians and I provided their own words that the basis of our government was Christian based. Feel free to review my post quoting the full text of Adams statement in Post #234.

 

[Naomanos]

The Founding Father's were Christians and I provided their own words that the basis of our government was Christian based. Feel free to review my post quoting the full text of Adams statement.

I have and yet, there are other words from them where they say this is not.

This was never a Christian nation and nothing you say will convince me otherwise. I too have studied the history of our country and the research I did, shows this is not a Christian nation.

However, keep on keeping on with what you believe. It's no skin off my back.

 

[Wrangler]

That was a metaphor to show that not all life is the given the same rights.

Rights are not given, they are endowed by our Creator.

There can be no question that a baby is incapable of reasoned decision-making. Our society debates when "the age of majority" ought to be but ranges from 13 to 25 years of age. Most societies have a graduated scale rather than an all at once recognition. This explains why the age to run for Representative, Senator and POTUS are all different ages.

However, the foundation of all rights is the right to life. I do agree that philosophically speaking, babies can have no rights precisely because they are incapable of reasoned decision-making. No society allows its citizens to murder those under the age of majority. So, there is a general recognition that such people, although in need of a steward and are wards, are nonetheless people to be protected by our society.

Why is birth the acceptable starting point if the baby has no rights? Why not 1 minute after? Why not one month after? Why not one year after? Why not one decade after? As time progresses fewer can justify murdering people just because they lack the capacity for reasoned decision-making. How would you want society to deal with your great children in the even their relatives all tragically died?

 

[Wrangler]

You have a habit of repeating falsehoods as if somehow doing so will make it truth. But it does not. This is an act of self-delusion.

Yes, the ORGANISM from egg to eventual baby is of the human species all the way through.

You are projecting. OK, out with it. In your estimation, how long after conception do you feel comfortable using the term "baby?" What is your standard, your criteria to invoke word games to justify baby killing?

 

[Wrangler]

This was never a Christian nation and nothing you say will convince me otherwise.

I realize you are stubbornly holding to a false believe. Again, I ask what set of facts would convince you that America is a Christian nation? What would have to happen for you to acknowledge the culture of America, the people and it's government are Christian?

 

[Naomanos]

I realize you are stubbornly holding to a false believe. Again, I ask what set of facts would convince you that America is a Christian nation? What would have to happen for you to acknowledge the culture of America, the people and it's government are Christian?

You know, for it to be an actual Christian nation with real tangible proof thereof without shadow of doubt. You will not be able to do that.

Just because some of its people are Christian it doesn't make it a Christian nation, anymore than this is an Islamic nation or a Jewish nation. It is as someone else said, this is a nation where you are free to be Christian, Islamic, Hindu, etc. This is a nation with freedom of religion and one that does t respect one religion over the other.

Again, no proof you can put forth will prove beyond the shadow of doubt this is a Christian nation.

 

[Wrangler]

You know, for it to be an actual Christian nation with real tangible proof thereof without shadow of doubt. You will not be able to do that.

No acceptance criteria! Gotcha. Just denial - plain and simple for unstated reasons.

 

[Naomanos]

No acceptance criteria! Gotcha. Just denial - plain and simple for unstated reasons.

I gave you my reasons. Seems I am not the one in denial.

There is no acceptance criteria because I have no doubt that my position on this is true. Why would I accept something you say, when I am fully convinced of the research I have done is full and needs no help from you?

If you want to believe that this is a Christian nation, have at it. I don't really care if you do. I don't have this innate need for this country to be a Christian one.

 

[Wrangler]

I gave you my reasons. Seems I am not the one in denial.

There is no acceptance criteria because I have no doubt that my position on this is true.

You contradict yourself from one paragraph to another. Either you gave me your reasons OR there is no acceptance criteria for you to give.

 

[Naomanos]

You contradict yourself from one paragraph to another. Either you gave me your reasons OR there is no acceptance criteria for you to give.

No contradiction. There is no acceptance criteria that I am willing to accept from you. In other words, no matter what you say, I won't accept it because as far as I am concerned, what you say is wrong on this subject.

 

[marksman]

America aside, Christianity and Islam have many, many commonalities. You’re not that different from the Taliban, after all.

 

[marksman]

America aside, Christianity and Islam have many, many commonalities. You’re not that different from the Taliban, after all.

I have not killed anyone yet

 

[marksman]

A fetus has a parasitic relationship with the mother. It does not deserve anywhere near the rights of an already born, developed human being.

Sorry but I am not conversant with idea that a baby is an it.

 

[marksman]

It has very much lost its way I think

Such a comment would suggest you don't think

 

[marksman]

An organism that is totally dependent on the life (woman) it is physically attached to

I believe that trans activists believe it can be a man or woman.

 

[marksman]

the poster meant that it is a developing organism that has not yet reached completion.

What poster?

 

[Wrangler]

There is no acceptance criteria that I am willing to accept from you.

The question is what is your acceptance criteria? I appeal to you as a reasonable and educated person. As the Bible says @ Isaiah 1:18, "Let us reason together."

Recently, I've been studying the controversial historical figure, General Douglas MacArthur. In answering the question should he have been fired for insubordination, one must develop or establish a pass/fail criteria. Answering one way or the other with no foundation, refusing to acknowledge facts contrary to your unfounded answer and then not even express what your pass/fail criteria is, is not a mature, deliberate assessment of the inquiry before you.

In my study of MacArthur, I learned a lot about him prior to this event, which occurred very late in his life. (He was about 71 when it happened). Like most things in life, his story is rich in context. How did you arrive at your conclusion (what is your pass/fail criteria) is a reasonable question. Given that we disagree - and presuming we are reasonable people - there is either a discrepancy about the facts or the standard by which those facts are judged. Right now, your post just seem petulant and I'm giving you the chance to bolster the validity of your denial.

 

[FlySwatter]

You are projecting. OK, out with it. In your estimation, how long after conception do you feel comfortable using the term "baby?" What is your standard, your criteria to invoke word games to justify baby killing?

It's not black and white but somewhere around the 8th week of pregnancy is where the brain has begun to develop.

The Basics of Brain Development

Over the past several decades, significant advances have been made in our understanding of the basic stages and mechanisms of mammalian brain development. Studies elucidating the neurobiology of brain development span the levels of neural organization ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"This paper will review some of the major events that contribute to the development of the human brain from its early embryonic state through adolescence. It begins by examining the foundational changes that occur during the embryonic period, which in humans extends through the eighth week post conception (gestational week eight, or GW8). By the end of the embryonic period the rudimentary structures of the brain and central nervous system are established and the major compartments of the central and peripheral nervous systems are defined"

I don't personally get too hung up on the specific time, I simply and rationally accept that for a number of weeks after conception all you really have is a developing organism with no brain or nervous system and therefore not a human being with rights. Whereas a woman is of course a fully developed human being with rights.

Either way I would never myself presume to have any right over another woman whom I do not know or have any dealings with.
It's a very personal choice to make and it should always be her choice up to that cut off point of around 8 weeks.