Christians and the Law of Moses

[Joseph77]

You have some serious issues. I think you should pick a church and be part of society.

The truth is much much much more serious (life and death) than you realize.
Jesus says society is death dealing (i.e. not good, not right, and always opposed to Jesus).
Same as that group opposed to Scripture you either decided to join, or were raised in, or otherwise for some other reason got involved in or try vainly to defend.

i.e. thus the "CONTRADICTIONS" you see or posted or/ and know or feel,
are because of those things you were taught
that are false.

 

[dev553344]

The truth is much much much more serious (life and death) than you realize.
Jesus says society is death dealing (i.e. not good, not right, and always opposed to Jesus).
Same as that group opposed to Scripture you either decided to join, or were raised in, or otherwise for some other reason got involved in or try vainly to defend.

i.e. thus the "CONTRADICTIONS" you see or posted or/ and know or feel,
are because of those things you were taught
that are false.

You need therapy, society is not the enemy, it's the solution.

 

[Joseph77]

You need therapy, society is not the enemy, it's the solution.

Jesus says all society, all mankind, is full of wickedness - and is opposed to Him.

Those opposed to Jesus tell you that society is the solution, thus keeping you in their territory on the wide road to destruction.

 

[Jay Ross]

You need therapy, society is not the enemy, it's the solution.

Joseph sadly does not see that Jesus and the apostles encouraged "Christians" to come together to worship and lift each other up. That is the function of a society. Some do lift each others up unto the Lord while others tear each other apart and destroy the spark that has been lit in them for Christ/God.

Sadly, Joseph unwittingly does both.

But some on this forum encourages us to hold him as our brother in Christ, so we also need to encourage him not only renew his mind but, more importantly, to actual encourage him to put on the refurbished personhood that God intends him to become in Him.

We all walk a very fine line in matters like this.

 

[BOWnQUIVER]

False. Not "under" but "obedient to" the four laws from the Torah given in Acts 15. Those four laws are binding on Christians.

OK.

ACTS 15 [17] That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. [18] Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. [19] Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among THE GENTILES are turned to God: [20] But that we write unto them, that THEY ABSTAIN FROM POLLUTIONS OF IDOLS, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. [21] For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

ACTS 15 as a whole was speaking as to whether gentiles needed to be circumcized or not.

ACTS 15 [4] And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them. [5] But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That IT WAS NEEDFUL TO CIRCUMCISE THEM, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

ACTS 15 [24] Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, YE MUST BE CIRCUMCISED, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Nothing to do with the 10 commandments. So lets look into what pollution of idols {V 20} is all about. Its there we find that we are to be keeping Gods sabbath day.

LEVITICUS 19 [3] Ye shall fear every man his mother, and his father, and KEEP MY SABBATHS: I am the Lord your God. [4] TURN YE NOT UNTO IDOLS, NOR MAKE TO YOURSELVES MOLTEN GODS: I am the Lord your God.

LEVITICUS 26 [1]Ye shall MAKE YOU NO IDOLS NOR GRAVEN IMAGE, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the Lord your God. [2] YE SHALL KEEP MY SABBATHS, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the Lord.

EZEKIEL 20 [16]Because they despised my judgments, and walked not in my statutes, BUT POLLUTED MY SABBATHS: FOR THEIR HEART WENT AFTER THEIR IDOLS.

I don’t know what the connection might be as to why graven images and idols are a sign that you don’t keep Gods sabbath but if the WORD says so I believe it. We could have a debate on what an idol is but that would go nowhere but in circles. Does your church have any standing images? I know the churches that do keep the sabbath don’t have any standing images or crosses.

LEVITICUS 9 [2]And he said unto Aaron, Take thee a young calf for a sin offering, and a ram for a burnt offering, without blemish, and offer them before the Lord.

Before Christ a young calf was used as a sin offering?

DEUT. 9 [16]And I looked, and, behold, ye had sinned against the Lord your God, and had made you a molten calf: ye had turned aside quickly out of the way which the Lord had commanded you.

And as Moses went up the mount to receive the 10 commandments the people below made a graven image that resembled that sin offering. They made a molten calf. God was not happy with these people. I wonder if some of them made the claim that it was not really a graven image, only a likeness of the sin offering. Now of course the crucified Jesus is our offering for sin.

 

[BOWnQUIVER]

The 4th commandment (the sabbath?) is fulfilled in Jesus Christ (see Matthew 11:28- 30)

Mat 11:28, Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29, Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30, For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Scripture below says Jesus will give you rest

MATTHEW 11 [28] Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. [29] Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. [30] For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

In order to find out what rest Jesus is speaking of simply read the very next verse. Keep in mind when this was written it was one continual writing. No chapters and verses.

MATTHEW 12 [1] At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat. [2] But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.

MATTHEW 12 [10] And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him. [11] And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out? [12] How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

The Jews added over a hundred laws to the original sabbath commandment which made the 4th commandment more of a burden than a blessing. Jesus sets them straight in Matthew 12 on a couple of these added laws to His 4th commandment.

MATTHEW 23 [1] Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, [2] Saying, THE SCRIBES AND THE PHARISEES sit in Moses' seat: [3] All therefore WHATSOEVER THEY BID YOU OBSERVE, THAT OBSERVE AND DO; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. [4] For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

Jesus tells us to do what scribes and pharisees say to do. Without a doubt, Ill bet they said we are to observe Gods sabbath day. Dont ya think?

 

[justbyfaith]

Scripture below says Jesus will give you rest

MATTHEW 11 [28] Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. [29] Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. [30] For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

In order to find out what rest Jesus is speaking of simply read the very next verse. Keep in mind when this was written it was one continual writing. No chapters and verses.

MATTHEW 12 [1] At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat. [2] But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.

MATTHEW 12 [10] And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him. [11] And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out? [12] How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

The Jews added over a hundred laws to the original sabbath commandment which made the 4th commandment more of a burden than a blessing. Jesus sets them straight in Matthew 12 on a couple of these added laws to His 4th commandment.

MATTHEW 23 [1] Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, [2] Saying, THE SCRIBES AND THE PHARISEES sit in Moses' seat: [3] All therefore WHATSOEVER THEY BID YOU OBSERVE, THAT OBSERVE AND DO; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. [4] For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

Jesus tells us to do what scribes and pharisees say to do. Without a doubt, Ill bet they said we are to observe Gods sabbath day. Dont ya think?

Jesus came as high priest according to the order of Melchizedec; and with a change in priesthood (from Levi to Melchizedec) there was also a change in law (Hebrews 7:12).

The letter of the OT required that no one lift a finger to work on the sabbath day (Exodus 20:10).

Jesus said, I am the Lord of the sabbath, The sabbath was made for man and not man for the sabbath, and, It is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

He changed the law of the sabbath from what the scribes and Pharisees required of the people to a more lenient view...a view that was more in alignment with grace.

And indeed, the literal sabbath is spoken of immediately after Jesus makes His statements that amount to the figurative truth that, I am your sabbath rest.

 

[BOWnQUIVER]

And indeed, the literal sabbath is spoken of immediately after Jesus makes His statements that amount to the figurative truth that, I am your sabbath rest.

MATTHEW 11 [28] Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. [29] Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

I will give you rest is in scripture. I am your sabbath rest is not.

 

[BOWnQUIVER]

Jesus came as high priest according to the order of Melchizedec; and with a change in priesthood (from Levi to Melchizedec) there was also a change in law (Hebrews 7:12).

The new covenant we are now in is all about the blood of Christ. The change in the law was all about the blood.

ZECH.9 [9] Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, THY KING COMETH UNTO THEE: HE IS JUST, AND HAVING SALVATION; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.[10] And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from river even to the ends of the earth.[11] As for thee also, BY THE BLOOD OF THY COVENANT I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water

Verse 9 definately prophecies of the coming Jesus. Verse 11, Jesus is called the blood of thy covenant

HEBREWS 12 [23] To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,[24] And to Jesus THE MEDIATOR OF THE NEW COVENANT, AND TO THE BLOOD of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

New covenant...blood

LUKE 22 [19] And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. [20] Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, THIS CUP IS THE NEW TESTAMENT IN MY BLOOD, which is shed for you.

New testament...blood

HEBREWS 9 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

old covenant...blood of goats.....The meat and drink offerings ...... fulfilled in Christ

HEBREWS [4] FOR IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:[6] In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.[7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.[8] Above when he said, sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;[9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. HE TAKETH AWAY THE FIRST, THAT HE MAY ESTABLISH THE SECOND.

He taketh away the first {blood covenant}, that he may establish the second.

JOHN 6 [53] [54] Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. [55] For MY FLESH IS MEAT INDEED, and MY BLOOD IS DRINK INDEED.

And theres the 2nd

 

[justbyfaith]

MATTHEW 11 [28] Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. [29] Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

I will give you rest is in scripture. I am your sabbath rest is not.

The concept is there (just look at Hebrews 4).

 

[Joseph77]

The false teachings are there also. (just look at todays posts, last weeks, last months, last years)

 

[justbyfaith]

The change in law has to do with moving from being bound to the letter to being obedient to the spirit of what is written (Romans 7:6, 2 Corinthians 3:6).

If we walk according to the Spirit, we will not walk according to the flesh (Galatians 5:16).

The works of the flesh (Galatians 5:19-21) all have to do with behaviours and attitudes that, if acted upon, would result in violations of the Old Testament law.

If we bear the fruit of the Spirit we will not violate any just law (Galatians 5:22-23, see also Psalms 94:20).

Therefore, we have a righteousness of God apart from the law, that is nevertheless attested to by the law and the prophets (Romans 3:21).

Because I obtain this righteousness by faith (Galatians 3:14, Romans 5:5; Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 JOhn 1:6, Romans 8:4); not by attempting to keep the requirement, or by attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts. I have this righteousness as the result of bearing fruit.

 

[justbyfaith]

The false teachings are there also. (just look at todays posts, last weeks, last months, last years)

False teachings, in Hebrews 4? I don't think so.

 

[Joseph77]

In all the posts, of all the false teachers, and all those bringing a false gospel, and more.

 

[justbyfaith]

In all the posts, of all the false teachers, and all those bringing a false gospel, and more.

I am interested in who you believe these false teachers are, and what is the nature of their false gospel and how it is unbiblical.

 

[BOWnQUIVER]

I will give you rest is in scripture. I am your sabbath rest is not.

The concept is there (just look at Hebrews 4).

OK. Lets look at Hebrews 4

HEBREWS 4 [9] THERE REMAINETH THEREFORE A REST to the people of God.[10] For HE THAT IS ENTERED INTO HIS REST, he also hath ceased from his own works, AS GOD DID FROM HIS. [11] Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Well...Ya see what it says. Now lets see how God rested from His work

HEBREWS 4 [4] For he spake in a certain place of THE SEVENTH DAY on this wise, And GOD DID REST THE SEVENTH DAY from all his works

Yup. God rested the 7th day. The sabbath.

 

[justbyfaith]

OK. Lets look at Hebrews 4

HEBREWS 4 [9] THERE REMAINETH THEREFORE A REST to the people of God.[10] For HE THAT IS ENTERED INTO HIS REST, he also hath ceased from his own works, AS GOD DID FROM HIS. [11] Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Well...Ya see what it says. Now lets see how God rested from His work

HEBREWS 4 [4] For he spake in a certain place of THE SEVENTH DAY on this wise, And GOD DID REST THE SEVENTH DAY from all his works

Yup. God rested the 7th day. The sabbath.

How long did the seventh day last in God's economy?

By the time Jesus rolled around, the Father was working and He was working (John 5:17-18).

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Paul said that we are Dead to the Law.....who would prefer Laws written on cold stone for guidance when you have The Holy Spirit Of God within you to do that job? Paul said the Law was “ weak and useless” in that it has NO POWER to save..... I don't know about you, but I want to get Saved ....The Law is only good for one thing.....you have to know how to use it correctly.... I used it correctly ....It “ shut my mouth” and showed me that I could not keep it.....it showed me the most important thing in life— it showed me that I had been living in a “ Fool’s Paradise”—- thinking that even though I was not perfect, I was “ Good Enough”to Merit Heaven.What a Lost , wretched man I was......sound familiar to anybody out there ?
The Law did its job in my life......it lead me to Jesus.....anybody else want to use it now? I’m finished with it .....

 

[Joseph77]

The Lawless One

"And then shall be revealed the Lawless One,

whom the Lord Jesus shall slay with the breath of His mouth,

and bring to nought by the manifestation of His coming" (2 Thess.2:8 R. V.).

This is another name of the Antichrist which makes manifest his awful character.

Each of his names exhibits him as the antithesis of the true Christ.

The Lord Jesus was the Righteous One;

the Man of Sin will be the Lawless One."

 

[101G]

Addressing the OP
Scripture #1. 1 Timothy 1:9 & 10

as for the LAW it self,
scripture #2. Romans 2:12
scripture #3. Romans 2:14 ...... BINGO.

and as for what is COMMANDED to obey?
scripture #4. Micah 6:8. BINGO, and another BINGO.

the law was only given to show you your sin, and the Levitical priesthood was establish to cover it, but never removed it. hence the need for a NEW COVENANT, and High Priest. so 1 Timothy 1:9 is in effect if one is in Christ. for he ended the law by fulfilling it. so we suggest one follow Micah 6:8 if you want to obey something in the OT, which the Lord God, JESUS, himself establish from the beginning, before the ten showed you your sin.

PICJAG.